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Topic: did knowledge exist before God
Krimsa Joined Fri 04/25/08 Posts: 9960	Tue 09/02/08 12:26 PM
if you want to debate your question then it must be agreed upon that the above is what is to be understood as definitions of the words used by EVERY other sentient being in this reality. if you choose or want to use your definitions which only you adhere to then there is no basis for debate or discussion' tell me - as an outsider - what do you think of the human race? "Tribo" come on now you are trying to play the "google cut and paste" pantheist Godhead by demanding that that it's either your way or the highway ..truely you know that is not the nature of the debate ...you are suppose to give your definition of knowledge and not hide behind a debatable "google cut and paste" version...I gave my definition of knowledge in one sentence that explained it perfectly ..surely you can do the same knowledge is the retaining and/or exchanging of that which may occur within a given reality ... funches 3:16 which doesn't concur with any other definitions but those you choose to make up and follow, which is your right, but you'll have to find someone who agrees with your definitionm of knowledge to be able to debate for if all cannot agree on the definition, then its "illogical" to debate the question. I agree with Tribo here. You have the right to just sustain a thread for the sake of it but people's views are being totally ignored here because they are not adhering solely to your concepts and definitions. It is my opinion that you can not have a debate in that manner. It also tends to border on "trolldom" Im not technically accusing you of being a troll but you are clearly NOT legitimizing anyone else's opinion except your own. It just seems like you will argue with anything being said for the sake of continuing the thread. Good luck with that. That was my original quote. Please read it again.

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Tue 09/02/08 12:40 PM
Funches; Being the self proclaimed JSH/M2 Troll determinator - I have to correct you here. You are not in fact a Troll. There is too much thought and common sense put into your posts, and despite your often unique view of logic, you do more to contribute to the threads than disrupt them. You may be classified as "Trollish" from time to time - an extremely self-defined and specific term on my part - but you are not a "Troll" in the traditional sense. You fall into the same catagory reserved for those special cases, such as Tribo. It could well be said that you and Tribo are the inspiration for my invention of the definition of this term "Trollish". as "Eljay" just confirm and as I pointed out to "Krimsa" only christians designed that term and use it ....so "Krimsa" is probably a "Christian in denial" besides how can I be a troll when I'm as pure as the driven snow

Krimsa Joined Fri 04/25/08 Posts: 9960	Tue 09/02/08 12:41 PM Edited by Krimsa on Tue 09/02/08 12:49 PM
So you aren't going to read my quote? Let me know when you get to it. You can divert the issue as long as you want. We can wait. Besides, Eljay was not addressing me that I am aware of. Eljay is a Born Again Christian and I enjoy debating various topics with him both on Evolution and the bible. You, I have never addressed before and so far, there seems to be a problem with an adequate amount of "back and forth" and clearly defined debate cohesion. I am simply calling it as I see it.

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Tue 09/02/08 12:47 PM
funches: my notions of knowledge is that it existed before any form of consciousness reply: notions are not definitions just your thoughts on a given subject. if that's what you desire to conclude be my guest, but you concluding this "notion" is no more than that - a notion - look up the word notion - i wont copy and paste it - in your case it would be a "personally" held inclination - you can look up inclination also geez "Tribo" ..why go though all that trouble when you can simply remove the word 'notion" from the sentence ..for instance "Knowledge is that it existed before any form of consciousness" ..see how easy that was and it still has the same meaning so now with that settled ..so ...er..."Tribo" so now can you give your own definition of the word "knowledge" ...come on don't be scare it will help break your "google cut and paste" addiction

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Tue 09/02/08 01:07 PM
if you want to debate your question then it must be agreed upon that the above is what is to be understood as definitions of the words used by EVERY other sentient being in this reality. if you choose or want to use your definitions which only you adhere to then there is no basis for debate or discussion' tell me - as an outsider - what do you think of the human race? "Tribo" come on now you are trying to play the "google cut and paste" pantheist Godhead by demanding that that it's either your way or the highway ..truely you know that is not the nature of the debate ...you are suppose to give your definition of knowledge and not hide behind a debatable "google cut and paste" version...I gave my definition of knowledge in one sentence that explained it perfectly ..surely you can do the same knowledge is the retaining and/or exchanging of that which may occur within a given reality ... funches 3:16 which doesn't concur with any other definitions but those you choose to make up and follow, which is your right, but you'll have to find someone who agrees with your definitionm of knowledge to be able to debate for if all cannot agree on the definition, then its "illogical" to debate the question. I agree with Tribo here. You have the right to just sustain a thread for the sake of it but people's views are being totally ignored here because they are not adhering solely to your concepts and definitions. It is my opinion that you can not have a debate in that manner. It also tends to border on "trolldom" Im not technically accusing you of being a troll but you are clearly NOT legitimizing anyone else's opinion except your own. It just seems like you will argue with anything being said for the sake of continuing the thread. Good luck with that. That was my original quote. Please read it again. "Krimsa" hey I see the words troll and trolldom in your post ..the original question was "did knowledge exist before God" not "is funches the king of trolls that rule in the land of trolldom" ... like I said if you going to post then be proud and stand behind what you going to post and be willing to take responsibility for what you post and not start crying crocodile tears ..either way this experience will teach you to think before you post ...accept this enlightenment my child

tribo Joined Mon 05/12/08 Posts: 5577	Tue 09/02/08 01:13 PM
hmm to answer your original question above - it is no - knowledge did not exist before god. nothing existed before god - god is the eternal entity.

Krimsa Joined Fri 04/25/08 Posts: 9960	Tue 09/02/08 01:16 PM Edited by Krimsa on Tue 09/02/08 01:18 PM
I cant believe Im having to do this but READ the quote. "I agree with Tribo here. You have the right to just sustain a thread for the sake of it but people's views are being totally ignored here because they are not adhering solely to your concepts and definitions. It is my opinion that you can not have a debate in that manner. It also tends to border on "trolldom" Im not technically accusing you of being a troll but you are clearly NOT legitimizing anyone else's opinion except your own. It just seems like you will argue with anything being said for the sake of continuing the thread. Good luck with that." Notice I am agreeing with Tribo. A couple days earlier Chazster also became annoyed with your lack of give and take during the course of this "debate". I was stating that I to had recognized this problem occurring repeatedly. Notice I say "it can border on trolldom". That would imply that though, you have not technically crossed the line yet, this thread is certainly not what one would refer to as a mutual exchange of concepts and ideas but instead a position of "I'm right and even though my position is unprovable and unsubstantiated, I ask that you all work within those confines and limitations." Sir, I mean you no disrespect. Is it possible to learn from this experience and what I and others on forum have stated as it relates to your personal conduct instead of behaving in a child like manner? One can hope. Let's move on as I have suggested twice now. Thank you.

SharpShooter10 Joined Tue 11/20/07 Posts: 11271	Tue 09/02/08 01:16 PM
not sure funches, good question. my belief is that God is the first and last, alpha and omega, and all that, I believe we will all know the answers that we seek before judgement day, not a second chance, because with what is taught today, many, have never had a first chance

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Tue 09/02/08 01:20 PM
Besides, Eljay was not addressing me that I am aware of. Eljay is a Born Again Christian and I enjoy debating various topics with him both on Evolution and the bible. "Krimsa" so why are brownnosing "Eljay" ..this is way off the topic

Krimsa Joined Fri 04/25/08 Posts: 9960	Tue 09/02/08 01:22 PM
I could ask you the same question finch, why were you using his quote?

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Tue 09/02/08 01:23 PM
hmm to answer your original question above - it is no - knowledge did not exist before god. nothing existed before god - god is the eternal entity. "Tribo" you are running to the safety of the bible and limiting the question to your religious belief so I will attempt to push you beyond that belief by asking you this question ..did God have a first thought

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Tue 09/02/08 01:36 PM
I cant believe Im having to do this but READ the quote. "I agree with Tribo here. You have the right to just sustain a thread for the sake of it but people's views are being totally ignored here because they are not adhering solely to your concepts and definitions. It is my opinion that you can not have a debate in that manner. It also tends to border on "trolldom" Im not technically accusing you of being a troll but you are clearly NOT legitimizing anyone else's opinion except your own. It just seems like you will argue with anything being said for the sake of continuing the thread. Good luck with that." Notice I am agreeing with Tribo. A couple days earlier Chazster also became annoyed with your lack of give and take during the course of this "debate". I was stating that I to had recognized this problem occurring repeatedly. Notice I say "it can border on trolldom". That would imply that though, you have not technically crossed the line yet, this thread is certainly not what one would refer to as a mutual exchange of concepts and ideas but instead a position of "I'm right and even though my position is unprovable and unsubstantiated, I ask that you all work within those confines and limitations." Sir, I mean you no disrespect. Is it possible to learn from this experience and what I and others on forum have stated as it relates to your personal conduct instead of behaving in a child like manner? One can hope. Let's move on as I have suggested twice now. Thank you. "Krimsa" since you must be new here I will try to explain some things ...it never been a thread I was in that "Chazster" didn't call me a troll or that I was ignorant or silly or stupid ..so because "Chazster" is annoy with me and call me a troll has become a tradiction ..I view it as him maybe having some other issues going on .. and me and "Tribo" mostly disagree but yet sometimes we do agree and that is the nature of what happens in a debating forum ..which is why if we happen to not agree on something is no reason for you to call me a troll also why are you trying to include others people such as "Chazster" and "Tribo" to justify you calling me a troll ...take responsibility for your own posts by not inducting others into your witch hunts

Krimsa Joined Fri 04/25/08 Posts: 9960	Tue 09/02/08 01:39 PM Edited by Krimsa on Tue 09/02/08 01:44 PM
Because I NEVER called you a troll. I said your behavior was going in that direction. Anyway, I was just filled in on the situation by private. Im letting it go. Its not worth arguing until we both get banned. I urge you to read my quote. I was CAUTIONING you to not push it any further. If others have called you on it also, Chaz and Tribo, that's not my fault, nor my problem and YOU need to take responsibility for your own behavior on forum. Good day sir. "It also tends to border on "trolldom" Im not technically accusing you of being a troll but you are clearly NOT legitimizing anyone else's opinion except your own." Krimsa

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Tue 09/02/08 01:40 PM
not sure funches, good question. my belief is that God is the first and last, alpha and omega, and all that, I believe we will all know the answers that we seek before judgement day, not a second chance, because with what is taught today, many, have never had a first chance "Sharpshooter" God may be the alpha but knowledge could be the pre-alpha ...also do you believe that God had a first thought

tribo Joined Mon 05/12/08 Posts: 5577	Tue 09/02/08 01:42 PM Edited by tribo on Tue 09/02/08 02:41 PM
hmm to answer your original question above - it is no - knowledge did not exist before god. nothing existed before god - god is the eternal entity. "Tribo" you are running to the safety of the bible and limiting the question to your religious belief so I will attempt to push you beyond that belief by asking you this question ..did God have a first thought by using the word >did< you imply a beginning and god had no beginning. if you care to reword it to ask ""could"" god have a FIRST thought? then the answer is god is capable of all things that don't go against any of his other attributes, since this would go against his infinite wisdom, then he could not have what you suggest, a first thought, god knew, knows [has all knowledge of] all things from eternity, you try to imply god has a beginning and therefore would have need of a first something/ anything, but according to the book - he is eternal -always was - always will be . which precludes him ever being in a position of not knowing all things. god is all knowledge, all intellect, all wisdom, all thought, there are no questions, thought's, ideas, etc., that "elude him - only us.

SkyHook5652 Joined Sat 08/23/08 Posts: 4063	Tue 09/02/08 01:44 PM Edited by SkyHook5652 on Tue 09/02/08 01:44 PM
...tradiction... What a GREAT word! I LOVE it!

SharpShooter10 Joined Tue 11/20/07 Posts: 11271	Tue 09/02/08 01:45 PM
not sure funches, good question. my belief is that God is the first and last, alpha and omega, and all that, I believe we will all know the answers that we seek before judgement day, not a second chance, because with what is taught today, many, have never had a first chance "Sharpshooter" God may be the alpha but knowledge could be the pre-alpha ...also do you believe that God had a first thought not sure how to answer that one funches, but yes, I do believe we all had a "first thought" at some time. We will know one day if knowledge was pre alpha or not. I must stand by my belief, and I emphasize "my" belief that God is the alpha and omega, beginning and end, but that could also just mean "our" beginning and end

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Tue 09/02/08 01:56 PM
Because I NEVER called you a troll. I said your behavior was going in that direction. Anyway, I was just filled in on the situation by private. Im letting it go. Its not worth arguing until we both get banned. I urge you to read my quote. I was CAUTIONING you to not push it any further. If others have called you on it also, Chaz and Tribo, that's not my fault, nor my problem and YOU need to take responsibility for your own behavior on forum. Good day sir. nah we won't get banned the moderators will just delete our little conversation but the moral of the story is...think about what you post before you post it also "Tribo" never called me a Troll ..it was only you and Chazster doing it

Krimsa Joined Fri 04/25/08 Posts: 9960	Tue 09/02/08 02:00 PM Edited by Krimsa on Tue 09/02/08 02:07 PM
I think the moral of the story is if you are going to start a thread, you have a personal responsibility to conduct yourself in a rational and logical manner which would include actually LISTENING to and digesting other opinions that might potentially conflict with your preconceived notions. I never called you a troll either. Also, there has been other problems of this designation or so I was just informed.

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Tue 09/02/08 02:02 PM
hmm to answer your original question above - it is no - knowledge did not exist before god. nothing existed before god - god is the eternal entity. "Tribo" you are running to the safety of the bible and limiting the question to your religious belief so I will attempt to push you beyond that belief by asking you this question ..did God have a first thought by using the word >did< you imply a beginning and god had no beginning. if you care to reword it to ask ""could"" god have a FIRST thought? then the answer is god is capable of all things that don't go against any of his other attributes, since this would go against his infinite wisdom, then he could not have what you suggest, a first thought, god knew, knows [has all knowledge of] all things from eternity, you try to imply god has a beginning therefore would not have need of a first something/ anything, but according to the book - he is eternal -always was - always will be . which precludes him ever being in a position of not knowing all things. god is all knowledge, all intellect, all wisdom, all thought, there are no questions for him - only us. "Tribo"..again you are running to the bible .. this is not in the bible you probably have to use your own thoughts ...because if God can do anything then why is he incapable of having a first thought ..