As Christians, we have to stop thinking in terms of hundreds of years and begin to think in terms of thousands of years. Jesus came 2000 years ago. But church traditions are mostly a few hundreds of years old.

Christianity doesn't begin or end with King James, the bisexual king.

CLV Matt 7:13 "Enter through the cramped gate, for broad is the gate and spacious is the way which is leading away into destruction, and many are those entering through it.

You didn't grow up on the web? Young man, I did that research during the 60's in places we used to call "libraries" with what we use to call "books." But your life-span isn't going to stretch long enough to go back to Christ and Constantine, who declared these holidays. You are going to have to look BEYOND your own meager years in order to discover the truth.

I didn't think I had to explain this to someone of your age.



CLV Matt 7:13 "Enter through the cramped gate, for broad is the gate and spacious is the way which is leading away into destruction, and many are those entering through it.



The entire Bible makes sense. You just have to think it through. It also helps if you have an accurate translation. If you are still using the KJV I can see why you might be confused.



Easter and Christmas are both man-made holidays. You can celebrate them or not, your choice.

CLV Prov 16:25 There is a way that seems upright before a man, Yet its end becomes the ways of death.



Thought is prayer.

KJV Proverbs 23:7 7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.



Where did you hear that?

CLV 1Thess 5:17 Be praying unintermittingly.

'Adialeiptos' means uninterruptedly, i.e. without omission.

Perhaps a good study on prayer will help?

In your country, as in every other country, Christmas and Easter are NOT Scriptural holidays.

For example, the Day of Pentecost is a Scriptural holiday.

CLV Acts 20:16 for Paul had decided to sail by Ephesus, so that he may not be coming to linger in the province of Asia, for he hurried, if it may be possible for him to be in Jerusalem by the day of Pentecost.

We can follow what God had laid down for us, or we can follow what man has turned the Bible into. But we cannot do both.

CLV 2Tim 1:13 |Have a pattern of sound words, which you hear from me, in faith and love which are in Christ Jesus.

You can look up on the web the origins of these man-made holidays.

What is the difference between Jesus Christ and Christ Jesus?

CLV Rom 3:24 Being justified gratuitously in His grace, through the deliverance which is in Christ Jesus

There is no "hell." Not in the Scriptures, anyway.

Actually, marriage is talked about in the OT, written thousands of years before Jesus came.

Eve is called Adam's wife...

CLV Gen 3:8 Then they heard the sound of Yahweh Elohim walking about in the garden in the windy part of the day, and the human hid himself with his wife from the face of Yahweh Elohim among the trees of the garden.

“The Hebrew servant whose ear was bored became a bondman ‘for ever,’ that is, for life (Ex.21:6) . . . .

‘For ever’ in 1 Chronicles 22:10 covers the forty years of Solomon’s reign; in 1 Kings 8:13 and 9:3, it is the time when the temple was in existence . . . .

Further passages such as Ecclesiastes 1:4 and Psalm 78:69 which speak of the earth abiding ‘for ever,’ when compared with passages such as Matthew 5:18, 2 Peter 3:7-10, Revelation 21:1, make evident that the ‘for ever’ of both the Psalmist and Ecclesiastes is coeval with the continuance of the present earth, from its making in Genesis 1:3-31 to its dissolution in Revelation 21:1

Is Christ's reign forever, or for an age?

AV Re 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Here the KJV clearly states that His reign will be forever. I am still not sure how adding another 'and ever' will make forever any longer.

In contrast...

AV 1Cor 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

Here the KJV clearly states that Christ will reign TIL ...etc. Which means that His reign will end. More on this...

AV 1Cor 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

If the Son is subjected, then He is not reigning, is He?

We can not have it both ways. Either His Reign will last for ever (and ever?) or it ends with Him being subjected to God.

Now some might say that the reason Christ's reign will last forever is because He is part of some type of trinity. That God and His Son are one and the same. I would question this type of response. If God and His Son are the same individual, then why does the Son need to reign, and then give up this reign. If God reigns in the end, why not let Him reign from the beginning?

Let us look to a more sane rendering...

CLV Re 11:15 And the seventh messenger trumpets. And loud voices occurred in heaven, saying, "The kingdom of this world became our Lord's and His Christ's, and He shall be reigning into/for the eons of the eons! Amen!"

YLT Re 11:15 And the seventh messenger did sound, and there came great voices in the heaven, saying, 'The kingdoms of the world did become those of our Lord and of His Christ, and he shall reign to the ages of the ages!'

In this light the answer is clear. Jesus Christ will reign until he delivers up the Kingdom to His Father. The Eons of the Eons (or Ages of the Ages) describes a particular eon.

Paul describes time as 5 eons. We near the completion of the Third Eon (or age) and will be entering the Fourth Eon. Some believe that we have already entered the Fourth Eon.

The Fourth Eon is often called the Millenium as it's duration is described in...

CLV Re 20:4 ...they also live and reign with Christ a thousand years.

CLV Re 20:6 ...but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will be reigning with Him the thousand years.

Once again the Scriptures make a distinction between God and Christ. This is the eon that Jesus talked about when He promises a type of Life that we do not have here...

CLV John 10:10 ... I came that they may have life eonian, and have it superabundantly.

This life will only be available when Jesus returns and judges us all.

And as this life is designed to last 1000 years, during this time we will be charged with the task of overcoming death...

CLV 1C 15:26 The last enemy is being abolished: death.

Paul calls death an enemy. Death shall be destroyed during this Fourth Eon.

What makes more sense?

I just wanted to take a look at how the KJV handles the words 'olam/aion' in their English version.

In Ancient Greek, the concept of eternity is only expressed in the negative. Unending or endless might be an example (Heb.7:16). It is expressed from the term AKATALUTOS. APERANTOS, another Greek term, is probably the strongest expression of duration. Yet it is only used in relation to the genealogies (1Tim.1:4). AIDIOS appears twice (Rom.1:20, Jude 6). It's meaning is perpetual or imperceptible. Yet these too, have their limits.

In Hebrew, LOULM VOD is used to convey eternity. The L is like our "for." The V stands for "and." The word OULM means "obscure." And OD is "further." Taken together literally it says, "for (the) obscure and further. Another rendering is, "For the age and further." Another Hebrew term is NTZCH. It is used in the titles to the Psalms. Often it is rendered "the chief Musician." But a closer rendering is "permanent." The idea comes from the root word "glazed," as glazing something assures a permanence. It is seen again in Jeremiah 8:5, as the people of Jerusalem, are seen in a "perpetual" backsliding. Certainly not endless.

1. There can be many ages, but only one "forever."

Forever can only be singular. No knowledge of the Ancient languages is necessary to know this. A plural form of the word would be impossible. And yet the plural form is used frequently...

AV Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Here the term 'age' cannot mean 'forever' in the absolute, or else it's plural form would make it meaningless. Imagine what this verse might say if 'aion' was translated as 'forevers.'

AV Col 1:26 [Even] the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints

For further proof, again this verse would make no sense if 'aion' was translated 'forevers.'


2. 'Forever' and/or 'eternity' has no beginning.

And yet the Scriptures clearly discusses a time before 'eternity'...

AV 1Cor 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

AV 2Tim 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

AV Tim 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began

As another act of irreverence, the term 'world' here is substituted for the plural form of 'aion.'

If the word 'aion' truly meant 'world' why just carry that significance here? Why not consistently translate it as 'world' throughout the Scriptures?


3. How can there be an end to 'eternity?'

The Scriptures talk about the end of 'aion.' Does 'eternity' have an end?

AV Matt 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

The term 'world' again becomes a stand-in for the concept of 'forever.' This harvest is at the end of forever. So says the KJV.

AV 1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

Evidently, the 'world' has more than one end, as the Ancient Greek term 'aion' is, again, in it's plural form.

This shows that the eons not only have an end, but many ends rather than not any at all (as in 'forever').

AV Heb 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Now this one is kinda tricky. The first usage of the term 'world' is actually correct. 'World' is representing the Ancient Greek term 'kosmos.'

However, the second usage of the term 'world' is once again rendered from the Ancient Greek term 'aion.'

Once again, in this verse, the term 'aion' is in it's plural form. This proves that the translators have not been true or consistent to the sacred text.

We also know that the world does not end when the Lord appears, neither did the ages end.

This verse is yet another proof that the 'eons' have an end and do not last 'forever.'

I had a similar experience with a Muslim woman. They are taught to date within their own religion. But don't Catholics do the same thing?

Your preferences on who you will date are your own business. And no one gets to judge you for that.

I had a similar experience with the Jehovah Witnesses.

From Morrie99999


This will be a two-part answer. What is the end and how the Bible handles it.

The answer to this question is wrapped up in one word... "eon." This word shows up in the Bible 340 times and is usually mistranslated.

AV Matt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

AV Gal 1:5 To whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen.

There is no "end of the world." Our Earth will be here for a very long time to come.

But the concept of eternity eluded ancient man. It eludes most of us today. So eternity is not mentioned in the Bible.

_____Strong's_____

G165 aion ahee-ohn'
from the same as G104;

properly, an age; by extension, perpetuity (also past); by implication, the world; specially (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future). Compare G5550.

"Properly, an age."

There are two words that we must concern ourselves with. The Ancient Koine Greek term 'aion' and the Ancient Hebrew term 'olam.' These two are actually the same word, but coming to us in different languages.

_____Strong's_____

H5769 `owlam o-lawm'
or lolam {o-lawm'};

from H5956; properly, concealed, i.e. the vanishing point; generally, time out of mind (past or future), i.e. (practically) eternity; frequentatively, adverbial (especially with prepositional prefix) always. Compare H5331, H5703.

This explains the concept of time beyond our reasoning of time. A thousand years or two thousand years might seem like an eternity. It is because we have such a short lifespan in comparison.

An "eon" or an "age" might seem like forever, but it does have a beginning and an ending.

http://clarencelarkincharts.com/charts/Clarence_Larkin_Charts_2.html
http://clarencelarkincharts.com/charts/Clarence_Larkin_Charts_1.html

Daniel 2:21-45

In the book of Daniel, the king saw a vision of a great statue. This statue was broken up into several eons or time periods. The head of gold represented the Empire of Babylon. The silver chest represented the Medo-Persian Empire. The belly of copper represented the Greek empire. The iron legs represented the Roman Empire, it's Eastern and Western divisions. The iron and clay feet and toes of clay. These all represent "ages" or "eons" of time beyond our own comprehension. Oh, we can count the years. But it is just math to us. A thousand years is meaningless to us, who live 75 plus years if we are fortunate.

CLV Dan 2:32 The image's head is good gold, its chest and its arms are silver, its belly and its thighs are copper,
33 its legs are iron, its feet, part of them are iron, and part of them are clay.

These all represent the time of the Gentiles and their kingdoms. We live in the last portion of this man even now. Yet even though a rock shall pulverize these kingdoms, no one will be killed.

CLV Dan 2:35 Then pulverized, as one, are the iron, the clay, the copper, the silver, and the gold, and they are as chaff from summer threshing sites, and the wind lifts them up, and no place at all is found for them. And the stone that collides with the image becomes a vast mountain range, and fills all the earth.

This represents the destruction of the authority of the Gentiles. The vast mountain range that will fill the earth is what we often call the Millennium. We are told it is 1000 years long...

CLV Re 20:2 And he lays hold of the dragon, the ancient serpent, who is the Adversary and Satan, and binds him a thousand years.

CLV Re 20:4 And I perceived thrones, and they are seated on them, and judgment was granted to them. And the souls of those executed because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who do not worship the wild beast or its image, and did not get the emblem on their forehead and on their hand--they also live and reign with Christ a thousand years.

Now I know there are those who will cite 2Peter 3:8 and try to defend the KJV's mistranslation. And, of course, you may believe whatever you choose to. But I tell you this word "forever" is used in error. And a thousand years is still not forever.

One more thing. In order to be "forever" is must also have no beginning. If the Millennium has a beginning, it will also have an end.

There is one more point I wish to make on the "end of the world" KJV mistake. 100 years ago and beyond our English term, "world" had yet another meaning to it. It used to mean "age." This is where we get the expression, "they are worlds apart." It means they are ages apart and often refers to a "May/December" relationship. Perhaps an old man with a young woman?

This definition is what we call an obsolete definition, and has not been in use since about 100 years ago. The KJV translated it "end of the world" and it was never changed.

Look for part two of this thread.

Please feel free to ask any questions you might have.

Yes and no.

The Last Days. One of the most misunderstood concepts in the Bible. I will start another thread on this.

Right. It only matters to Christians.

Fornication - An Unscriptural Term

Much like "hell" the word "fornication" was made up by the Catholic church as yet another means to help them control the populists of Europe. The definition wasn't all that clear many years ago, so the church would use this term as it saw fit. Even today the definition can get a bit fuzzy...

Merriam-Webster
consensual sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other

The Bible Encyclopedia
“The Greek word for ‘fornication’ (porneia) could include any sexual sin committed after the betrothal contract. …In Biblical usage, ‘fornication’ can mean any sexual congress outside monogamous marriage. It thus includes not only premarital sex, but also adultery, homosexual acts, incest, remarriage after un-Biblical divorce, and sexual acts with animals, all of which are explicitly forbidden in the law as given through Moses (Leviticus 20:10-21). Christ expanded the prohibition against adultery to include even sexual lusting (Matthew 5:28).” (Dr. Henry M. Morris)
http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/fornication.html

Dictionary.com
Idolatry.

The Free Dictionary
adultery, infidelity, unfaithfulness, extra-marital congress or relations or sex, living in sin, extra-curricular sex (informal), pre-marital congress or relations or sex Fornication is a crime in some American states.

Can you see some of the contradictions here?

But the real confusion lies in the practical use of the word. Many people feel it describes a certain type of sex. For example, some believe "fornication" means oral, or **** sex. Some think it means sex with animals. Some feel it involves what we call "toys" or ropes. Some think it is about dominance or submission.

It seems it all depends on who you talk to.

Today the Catholic church uses the word to help with their lists of immorality. Often times this word will be added to a list that the Catholic church wants to make look horrible. In many cases, if we are to believe that "fornication" simply means "consensual sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other," the term is redundant.

AV Ga 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

If we are to believe the bible it seems that the words "fornication" and "adultery" are two different and unique terms. Not the same thing at all.

So what does the word "fornication" really mean?

Much like the term "hell" "fornication" is used to substitute a different word from the Scriptures. Just as "hell" is used to substitute 4 different words, so is "fornication used to substitute 4 different words.

These are...

porne? That means prostitute (Revelation 19:2 uses porne)

porneia? is Prostitution (1 Cornithians 7:2 uses porneia)

porneuo? is committing prostitution (1 Cornithians 6:18 uses porneia)

pornos? that is a male prostitute, which might be known as a Gigolo today (1 Corinthians 6:9 uses pornos)

I list these as examples only.


The word "fornication" is used in the KJV 36 times, 4 times in the OT and 32 times in the NT. I would like to concentrate on the NT use of this word.

Matthew 5:32
Matthew 19:9
John 8:41
Acts 15:20
Acts 21:25
Romans 1:29
1Corinthians 5:1 (2)
1Corinthians 6:13
1Corinthians 6:18 (2)
1Corinthians 7:2
1Corinthians 10:8
2Corinthians 12:21
Galatians 5:19
Ephesians 5:3
Colossians 3:5
1Thessalonians 4:3
Jude 1:7
Revelation 2:14
Revelation 2:20
Revelation 2:21
Revelation 9:21
Revelation 14:8
Revelation 17:2 (2)
Revelation 17:4
Revelation 18:3 (2)
Revelation 18:9
Revelation 19:2

Prostitution is a business transaction, where money is exchanged for sexual services. This practice (called the oldest profession) was so popular in Rome that there was a street named after it. Prostitution in Ancient Rome was legal and licensed.

Prostitution was big business in Rome. So why would it be so strange that Paul was addressing this widespread problem?

By restoring the word "Prostitution" to the Scriptures and eliminating the word "Fornication" we can see that the church has very little to say about mankind's sexual activities.

Adultery is defined as a married person having sex outside of his/her marriage.
Virginity is also defined in the OT.
But there is really nothing that says two people who are in love cannot have sex.

Unless, of course, you are willing to say that every woman who has ever given herself to a man is a Prostitute.

Are you?

How do I block someone?

Someone I don't want to see or allow them to respond to my threads?

Is that even possible here?

From Tom4Uhere


Both are man-made holidays and neither one is in the Bible.

They were part of Constantine's campaign to include some of the old Pagan ways into this new Christian religion.

Christmas was the celebration of the Winter Solstice and Easter was the celebration of Isther, the goddess of fertility.

From Milesoftheusa


Two excellent points. I am always suspicious when someone suggests that we exclude someone or some group. It feels to me like censorship. I welcome anyone and everyone to respond to any of my posts.

From Godsfriend10


I do appreciate when someone quotes from the Bible and then posts where in the Bible it can be found. So many here seem to post from memory. But our memory is not always the best source for Biblical reference. I copy from my ISA program.

CLV Amos 3:3 Shall two walk together unless if they make an appointment?

The LDS (or Mormons) were started by Joseph Smith. They have their own Bible which Mr. Smith claims to have translated from Scrolls found in his field and the urim-thummim, also found there. Of course, none of their Bible is canonized. So many questions have been left unanswered. Like how did these scrolls get to North America?

From tombraider


I don't see that there is anything wrong with a little diversification. How else would we be able to have such lively conversations? It's not like anyone here is killing anyone.

The Bible has alot to say about sex, but not much about having normal sexual relationships.

It talks about not having sex with your father, your mother, any blood relative, your grandchildren, your daughter-in-law, your brother's wife, your neighbor's wife. Homosexuality is right out. And the OT concerns itself with virginity alot.

CLV 1Cor 7:1 Now, concerning what you write to me: It is ideal for a man not to be touching a woman.
2 Yet, because of prostitutions, let each man have a wife for himself and each woman have her own husband.

It seems alot of assumptions are made over this verse. It doesn't forbid sex outside of marriage. I can see why Paul might have included this. Sexually transmitted diseases are no fun, especially a couple of thousand years ago before even penicillin was around.

There is no Ancient Greek term for "fornication." It is a word that the church made up.

Strong's

G4202 porneia por-ni'-ah
from G4203;

harlotry (including adultery and incest); figuratively, idolatry.

The word "fornication" is a substitute for "prostitution."

It is only necessary to believe in God if you wish to communicate with Him.