I think you will notice that those who post religious discussion points as if they are hard fact are the ones that get "attacked".

If you want to prove your holy book right, you better be pretty well prepared to defend it.

If you want to discuss in a philosophical manner, the positive and perhaps negative aspects of your own, or another's belief then there won't be nearly as much toe stomping.

In 'mysterious' ways, JB, mysterious ways....

Err... that seemed more like not-so-subtle inuendo.

That's what I'm saying... there was an implication made that evolution means "better" species completely replace "inferior" ones... I.E. man is better than monkeys, monkeys are better than rats, etc.

That isn't the case... there isn't a better, there is a different. Mutations occur in the DNA, new characteristics are exhibited, and the natural environment acts as a proving ground for these new traits.

Those that inhibit survival in a given set of environmental parameters prevent replication of these characteristics.

That's whey there aren't too many fish that walk around on land, birds that live in the water, or flying monkeys.

Freudian typo I guess

It would be difficult to find someone that didn't like MyMyka I think...

Chocolate Milk with just a bit of Bailey's... hell, alot of Bailey's

Those changes accumulate over time... And the amount of time it takes is really the key isn't it?


Evolution certainly isn't viable for life as we know it if we limit the time frame to some 6000 years or so.


Of course that notion is just silly. There is absolutely NO PLACE AT ALL in the Bible that says the world is only 6000 years old... Ussher back in the 1650s came up with that figure by doing fuzzy math on the begats part of the bible.

The closest you get to hard time frames is the 6 days of the creation.

The other point you hinted at which is unfounded is the notion that evolution means that things change from a basic form to a more advanced one. This is simply not true. We still have planerians, amoebacytes, spider monkeys, and parakeets. If things only evolved up the tree, then these "simpler" life forms wouldn't be here.

Is it too late to crack open a bottle of Fraoch?


I know... I know... it's Scottish, but that heavy cream ale they serve on the little island is just wee bit too weak for me.

Tonight is arms and legs... Tuesday was a mega-cardio day.

I'm going to try and work up to a 3 day heavy, 2 day light routine.

The great thing about those examples that you throw out to "disprove" carbon dating is that in almost every case they are exceptions to a general rule... not proven just 50 times for your 8 or 9, but hundreds and thousands.

You take a sample of the material and it ALWAYS has a half-life that is ALWAYS the same. How much material is accumulated in a biological system is what throws these tests off, but when you get anomalous results like a 3000 year old seal for example, you go looking for the source.

What do seals eat? Fish and Mollusks. What do Mollusks eat? Sediment from the ocean floor where there are *surprise* sea-vents that spew out concentrations of carbon, sulfur, and other materials that accumulate in disproportionate amounts.

These are anomalies and once detected can be accounted for. For the one or two locations where seals and penguins are found to be thousands of years old, you can sample hundreds of other locations and find that seals and penguins are a more expected 5 to 10 years old.

Furthermore, Radio Carbon dating with C-14 is not the gold standard that anti-evolutionists would like to hold it up to be.

Geology has a HUGE role in dating. If you find a fossil that by RC dating somehow comes out too only a few years old, but know that the rock layer it is found in is thousands of years old (because you know that samples taken from around the world of the same layer are the same composition and date) then obviously that is an anomaly and is not the new next best thing.



You gotta remember that we sciencey types don't believe ANYONE, not even our selves.... that's why most theories and hypotheses are peer reviewed and shot down, ridiculed, re-written, and written off before they even get out of the lab. It isn't until evidence for an idea is overwhelming, and exceptions against are all accounted for or so insignificant in frequency that they are irrelevant that some thing becomes a "science fact".

If you are at all familiar with the definition of speciation which is a core component in the evolutionary process, then you might be interested to know that this has occurred not only within the last 500, but the last 100 years with certain Galapagos finches, among other animals of those islands.

Elephants turning into birds isn't evolution, that is silly. The gradual and progressive degrees of speciation over time are.

If you want examples of this that occur even faster, the whole world of micro-biota lives and dies and evolves at a daily rate. It is in fact why medical researchers are seriously and rightly concerned that our antibiotics are becoming ineffective.

Modern understanding of DNA also pretty much confirms the ideas behind evolution... but of course DNA isn't in the Bible now is it?

Oh... let the Flat-Earthers enjoy having the entire universe revolve around then Abra; it makes 'em happy. Meanwhile I have faith that the physical laws of the universe will continue to perpetuate an amazing collection of galaxies, planets, and other life long after we're all gone, just like it has for eons prior.

Love <> Sex.

Good Sex and Good Love = Great Relationship.

You can have good relationship with only one of the two, but yow will still seek the other.

Flesh Field... Epophany

Gotta get a grip on the idea of a nice guy vs. a wuss... No one but strippers and whore like a wuss, cause they're easy to peel.

Wusses might be "nice guys" but not all nice guys are wusses. Girls dig nice guys who aren't wusses, but will prefer and @$$hole to a nice guy who is also a wuss.

Depends on which Fundamentalist organization you have experience with I guess... my particular ex-faith spends all its time preaching too Africa and S. America... guess it's a sort of institutional racism... also probably a contributing factor to why it is an 'EX' faith.

I guess when your particular background centers around being holy on the Seventh Day, but the rest of the week your Advent involves defrauding the public and participating in hallucinatory sex orgies with cousins and under-age girls then it is no surprise that your doctrine is false.

I don't understand why a band has too label itself as "Christian"... if music is good then it doesn't matter what the background philosphical bent is.

Oh Cheezus H. Christ bleeding on a crutch! This has seriously gone on for 8 F*$%ing Pages?!

Why is it that Mentalfundalists can't quite clue in to the whole definition of FAITH and just kinda go with it that maybe those "mysterious ways" that the G.O.D. works in might just included millions of years, evolution, and perhaps a few astronomical events that have drastically shaped our world?

Or does that whole "Intelligent Design" thing mean that Sky-Daddy had to actually create each and every thing like some sort of life size-claymation parody?

Why isn't it intelligent to setup a self selecting, replicating, non-determinative and adaptive system of procreation that can adapt to a dynamic environment, overcoming challenges, and superseding competing life forms?

Better yet why the heck wouldn't the manifest Word in The Beginning just be "Boo!" and then the whole predetermined pattern of sub-atomic assemblies that created the universe just kind of expand from there?

If the good-old-G-man is spending precious fractions of a second making sure each ant has 6 legs and a butthole, I'm pretty sure he has his hands full, so I can excuse him for not miracling new legs for a cripple, or making sure all the brown babies are saved.

Well, Deuteronomy, Leviticus, and such were set up as rules for the ancient Israelites to follow to be healthy, strong, and live well. There are any number of rules in those books that don't make much sense in the context of modern medicine, hygiene or justice.

From studying those rules, I guess we can wonder if they weren't a bunch of feral incestuous man-beasts killing and eating their way around ancient Palestine before God found 'em.

If you have to have rules like no pooping in the middle of camp, no jerking-off in camp, and other even less savory guidelines too public behavior, you have some pretty wild creatures on your hands.