Oh yeah?! My giant invisible frog-god is better than your invisible man.

If you don't believe that we'll beat you bloody and then perform other cruel and painful tortures upon you in the name of our loving savior until you believe in him.

Huh. Erik Cartman found Mingle2?

Cool girls or cougars?! Fresno's got Cougars...

God is NOT an illegal alien, even though Jesus does wash my car from time to time.

boobies?!

...Pessimists, Terrorists targeting the next mark
Global chaos feeding on hysteria
Cut throat, slit your wrist, shoot you in the back, fair game
Drug abuse, self abuse searching for the next high
Sounds a lot like hell is spreading all the time
I'm waiting for the day the whole world dies...

Who needs your stinking pity? I would mock God in his face. He could strike me down only to prove my points.

I think its because I'm terminally unfit to experience life as a normal feeling human being.

If early man were living almost 1000 years then we would certainly have some more credible record of this. After all that would have been less than 10 generations ago, even with an exponential collapse in lifespan post flood.

Did we have only one or two of those generations? We would still be within the realm of recorded history then, given that the earth's age were 6000 years.

By a full two generations into the world's going about we already have fully developed civilizations around the entire globe.

BTW - if you recall that the earliest calenders were recorded by lunar cycle rather than solar orbit, and that we have to translate the early culture's use of the word "year" into a modern connotation, as well as the tendency for words to change precise meaning over time - you can adjust for the 900 - 1000 year life spans by dividing each set of years by months (the approximate period between lunar cycles) and end up with ages of 75 to 80 years. Which is normal, and certainly remarkable for the conditions and mortality of early man.

Beachbum - one of the problems is that there are now so many break-away denominations that it's hard to track them all. Most of them I would think, are Young Earthers (and therefore also creationists).

I would expect that Methodists, Unitarians, and Presbytarians would be more in line with teaching the Bible as a philosophical reference, and letting science reveal the truth about the natural world - same with the "mega-churches".

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/76/story_7665_1.html

Kind of an interesting gauge for your thinking; but at the end it details a very wide range of religions and sub-denominations. It will tell what the official doctrine is for each.

That's true... species do not change into whole new species all together.

They adapt and vary, and then an environmental condition occurs for which certain adaptive traits are favored, but the original varieties are not suited.

This process continues hundreds and hundreds of times and then you effectively have new species, even though they have only made very very small changes.

Adaption is one of many steps a species takes in transitioning to another species.

The the spacemen that excavated in Montana had a clear conception of Geology, and some basic understanding of Biological processes whether terran or not, they would likely conclude that at most two species exhibiting a wide range of diversity, or perhaps a collection of nearly related species were cohabiting in the area.

The bones of and skeletal structure of Samoans, Caucasians, and Negros are sufficiently similar that most people untrained and inexperienced would not be able to discern a distinct difference.

Neanderthal are different enough that the differences are clearly distinguishable to an untrained observer, even if the nuances are lost on them.

The bones of congenital dwarfs though disproportionate, are similar enough in structure that upon close examination they would be viewed as a close relative or simply a variation of the species.

That is one of the reasons why we can distinguish juvenile members of a species from adults by having only their bones available for observation, rather than consider the set too be a distinct but smaller species of similar form.

When it comes to the genetic evidence however, we have a significantly different picture. The genes for hominids are fairly complex (though by no means the most complicated structure), but in understanding the gene sequencing we can find enough difference to distinguish between the various "races" and to distinguish ourselves from other near cousin species for which we have DNA evidence.

A space race which has mastered interplanetary travel will not certainly but in all probability figured out DNA, or some equivalent of cellular encoding as well.

Two accounts of creation or two creation accounts kind of translates too the same thing for me... Either it happened one way or it didn't. I'm not trying to say there were TWO CREATIONS, just that there are two versions of it that don't entirely line up.

The main problem I have is still the population issue. Lets say it is a given that Adam and Eve lived 900 years. If we also allow that A&E were fully mature at creation then it is conceivable that the first human baby followed in approximately 9-10 months. It would take another month or so for # 2 to get underway, and thus almost two years to reach the Cain & Able feasability.

We do not know how many years exactly passed until the two had at it at the alter... we can infer that they were grown men.

The question then is did aging occur in a normal fashion i.e. If they lived 900 years (which is pure conjecture incidentally), did they mature more slowly at a similar ration too ours? That would mean that Cain and Able would have to be somewhere around 150 years old or so before reaching sexual maturity.

We could have Eve still popping out kids every 9-10 months, so potentially there could be another 180 kids.

If the conditions were right and from Cain and Able onward there were only females born, then at about 200 years you can really start to see the population exploding, and there could be enough people to populate a small town a few valleys west of the gates.

We know that at some point in Eve's life menopause had to kick in. This usually occurs about 2/3 -3/4 of the way through a modern healthy female lifespan (60s?) and if it were the same for Eve, she would only have had about six or seven hundred children of her own.

In the most favorable of conditions it seems a stretch that a viable population of humans would stem from only two pair.




BUT!!! Here is the kicker - Adam and Eve were banished from the Garden before this could have happened, so death and mortality had already kicked in. Since we can predict the population mortality due to illness, accident, or homicide at the time we can't accept best case figuring.

Also; as the story goes, the city that existed WAS THERE BEFORE Cain reached it... so there had to be other people from somewhere else.

Perhaps Yahweh got his human clay molds at a discount rate from one of the other gods floating around at the time and shaped his own version of humans?

That might account for the overlap of Neanderthal and modern Homosapian populations, and why some of our neighbors are knuckle dragging uni-browed brutes.

The present ban on stem cell research only prohibits new lines from publicly funded sources. Private research is still able to do as it will. That is potentially a "good" road-block that Shrub setup... publicly funded science often comes with corruption, tainted results, and limited support, once it has been shown that the applications are not as amazing as the information itself.

I don't know why people get their panties in a knot over whether or not you can custom tailor the appearance or prowess of yourself or your child.

What do the tastes of someone else have to do with you? The idea everyone is going to suddenly fall under the sway of eugenics and racial supremacy because of this technology is pure nonsense.

People have already been under the influence of these delusions for centuries, and in the past it has typically required violence and degradation to sort out.

The real concern should be what impact this would have on population growth. The world is full of talking apes already - do we really need many more of us living longer lives and sucking down resources and filling up space?

Without a sense for critical comprehension, its neigh impossible to point out the logical inconsistencies in Genesis.

Please explain why (beyond the simple first 6 days) it is that there are two diverging stories of creation, why there are whole cities and nations of people into which Cain is able to emigrate and find shelter. If Adam and Eve were the first people made by God how do we have them?

That's a convenient little part to skip over in church school, and if you ask about it you get your ear twisted and stuck in a corner... it also leads to a sound reason why 6000 years is too short for the Earth too have been around, but that's a different part of the discussion.

For how long and did you notice any improvements? I'm just going on cycle with proteins and anti-aromatics (I can't take heavy testosterone supplements), and take some heavy duty multi-vitamins as well.

I feel much better and have quicker recovery, but not sure if I feel huge differences in strength yet, but it is still early.

Welcome to the thread Skyhook - if you haven't been around this part of the forum much, it appears that this is really a tertiary discussion that is hammering out the nature of truth between the "born-agains" and the "rationalists".

Pick a side and poke a few jabs... its mostly all in good fun anyway.

Referring back to some earlier points of discussion:

Too find out about the pooping, you need to read through Deuteronomy, Leviticus, and there *might* be some of it in Exodus... don't remember exactly.

It's in the same part as where God is telling the Israelites how to build a camp, and what they are and aren't allowed to do within the camp boundaries... its read-between-the-lines stuff.


Krimsa- Don't you mean Church of Christ, Scientist? They are quite a bit different than Scientologists, and so far as I know that hack Sci-Fi writer L.R. Hubbard nothing to do with them either.

I think anything either of them have to do with actual real science is that they share the same root-word in their name... and that Scientology uses goofy electromagnetic sensors too tell you how many alien parasites you have infesting your soul.

I will take that as a compliment I think?




<-- skipped the six pack, have a mini-keg instead.

Big arm and shoulder night tonight... maybe core as well. I was back up at my normal weight set for legs Tuesday. Nice to be back at my former level... now I can build on it.

Jtitol - Do you supliment any?

I was unable to enjoy that movie as a comedy... Growing up in rural western Montana made it more of a documentary.

We had a kid just like Napolean... except instead of drawing unicorns (badly), he knew how to program a "sweet" dungeons into a Ti-82, and would try to show us his new level before every algebra class... very sad when you can't even make friends with fellow geeks to play D&D. I think he went on to become a successful software engineer.