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Topic:
Fake Christians
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..which ultimately is the 'said claim'.
Ahh, makes sense, however. I was raised southern Babtist and I WAS taught that if you did not believe in Jesus as your savior you would be sent to hell and there was nothing saying it wouldn't be forever. So any given person may argue scripture, but to deny that these tactics are not used by many Christians is to stick your head in the sand. Just my .02 Hmmmm, was this a deflection tactic or an obscured "no need to show evidence BS"? Or perhaps it was your evidence in an appeal to authority? Whatever it was, it's time for you to pull your head out of the sand and recognise what it is that you are doing... You apply the double-standard, sliding scale rule of requirements for "evidence".... OK, the Southern Baptists taught you about "Jesus" and "Hell", I get that... So then why do you question the existence of God? If you can take oral testimony and draw conclusions as well as make claims about "hell", then what's the difference between that and the existence of God? With one you require "spectacular" evidence, the other, hearsay testimony? To be honest, I'd have to say that your line of reasoning is what should constitute "magical thinking". After all, it seems to give you the ability to deny what you have posted... It took Sin_and_Sorrow's post to show you the claim(s) you made, doesn't that slight mishap cause you to question your own memory and/or perception? There were actually two claims made, but I thought I would make it easier for ya by only focussing on one. "Yea real nice guy this god that requires you believe in him or he makes you suffer for eternity." 1st claim: God requires you to believe in Him... 2nd claim: He will make you suffer for eternity if you don't believe in Him... So, do you apply the scientific principal and verify your own claims? Or do you simply believe whatever someone tells you and say "no need to show evidence"? So, do you apply the scientific principal and verify your own claims? Or do you simply believe whatever someone tells you and say "no need to show evidence"? I have a question that goes along with your statement here. It's a little "off topic" but it relates into the topic. So do you check EVERYTHING you know about "history" to verify it to be true? How do you absolutely know Abraham was a president for absolutes? Someone tell you? Where you there? Or I'll go with what you request, "what evidence do you have of this"? And the evidence has to be shown to be authentic and absolute. People don't believe in religion because they do not wish to. In this case "Christianity". It's not because they haven't been "convinced" or anything, it's because they CHOOSE not to believe. Yes I understand quite a bit of history CAN be verified through investigation, but have you ever really done it? I'm not speaking about one or two incidents, but everything you know about history, have you thoroughly checked it out to ensure it to be true? If not, why not? History is myth, based on pesonages thruoghout time, no more no less, if they wont believe the truth, then give them the myth. |
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Topic:
Fake Christians
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..which ultimately is the 'said claim'.
Ahh, makes sense, however. I was raised southern Babtist and I WAS taught that if you did not believe in Jesus as your savior you would be sent to hell and there was nothing saying it wouldn't be forever. So any given person may argue scripture, but to deny that these tactics are not used by many Christians is to stick your head in the sand. Just my .02 Hmmmm, was this a deflection tactic or an obscured "no need to show evidence BS"? Or perhaps it was your evidence in an appeal to authority? Whatever it was, it's time for you to pull your head out of the sand and recognise what it is that you are doing... You apply the double-standard, sliding scale rule of requirements for "evidence".... OK, the Southern Baptists taught you about "Jesus" and "Hell", I get that... So then why do you question the existence of God? If you can take oral testimony and draw conclusions as well as make claims about "hell", then what's the difference between that and the existence of God? With one you require "spectacular" evidence, the other, hearsay testimony? To be honest, I'd have to say that your line of reasoning is what should constitute "magical thinking". After all, it seems to give you the ability to deny what you have posted... It took Sin_and_Sorrow's post to show you the claim(s) you made, doesn't that slight mishap cause you to question your own memory and/or perception? There were actually two claims made, but I thought I would make it easier for ya by only focussing on one. "Yea real nice guy this god that requires you believe in him or he makes you suffer for eternity." 1st claim: God requires you to believe in Him... 2nd claim: He will make you suffer for eternity if you don't believe in Him... So, do you apply the scientific principal and verify your own claims? Or do you simply believe whatever someone tells you and say "no need to show evidence"? Who are you "spider" in disguise???? |
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Topic:
Fake Christians
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See the problem i have with any of the Abrahamic religions is the fact that according to them if i don't believe in their God i'm going to a mythical place called hell and suffer eternal damnation.On the other hand i look at them knowing when they finally die,their body functions have stopped and do not have to answer to anyone. It just kind of irks me knowing that people have this false security that if they follow the rules of a mythical God and Jesus for christians that they'll end up in this mythical place called heaven. Well when they're dead atleast they won't have to worry about the disappointing fact of there being no heaven cause they'll be in a eternal death sleep. Nah, dude.. I'm tellin' ya.. When we pass on.. ..our souls do head northward.. However, they make no pit-stop in the clouds. No. Instead, our soul travel to the opposite end of the universe and take the form of a new soul in another race of humans living in a far off place. It also explains that if we did in fact return as another being why we hold little to none remembrance of our life prior; becaue by the time our soul reaches that other planet.. it wouldn't recall nada. :D LMAO, interesting take on afterlife. |
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Topic:
Fake Christians
Edited by
tribo
on
Tue 02/21/12 12:37 PM
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Every word of scripture is true. That includes that hell is a real place. But God also draws man and give every man a chance to know Him. God will draw...convict.. God sends no man to hell... man sens himself there...by still rejecting Jesus to the very end, and only after God has repeatedly reached out time and time and time again....and man still ends up rejecting God when he leaves this earth. When God is drawing you, you will know. God knows that on our own , NONE OF US are able to come to Him and believe in Him ,and accept Him ,on our own. We just can't....we are not able to.....cause sin has separated us from God and also as a result,our spirtual eyes are blind. That is why God draws..and reaches out to us.....and deals with our hearts..so we WILL come to Him and accept him, so that we may be saved. God alone does the saving...but God will never force anyone to accept Him. But God WILL deal with all our hearts ....and gives us ALL a chance to come to Him ..and accept Him into our hearts. God turns NO ONE AWAY, Who calls upon his Name ,and with a sincere heart. 
Let us not underestimate the Power of God...and what God is Able to do. Amen.
gonna be a lonely place up there with just you and the trinity, hope you like bridge. |
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Topic:
Fake Christians
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Billy... there is a DIFFERENCE between having just religion.... versus having relationship. Now..Not all who say they are christian , have an actual relationship with God YET (a christian is one who now has relationship established back with God ,Which comes only thru salvation....or in other words, believing and accepting Jesus as Saviour into one's heart). But Many who call themelves christian, still only have just religion. However.. that doesn't mean that won't eventually change...as God at just the right time ,will eventually lead them into relationship also(IF they are hearing the Word of God preached, that is)....... In other words.... If the religion is actually teaching the Word of God ,and the Word of God is being preached (and not just man's opinion ), than that is what will draw man unto salvation(there is power only in the hearing of God's Word being preached ....there is no power to save , if one is just hearing just man's opinion being preached ). Going to church to hear the Word of God is good...nothing wrong with the Christian religion at all.... but it is just that not everyone IN church is SAVED YET. But in the process of getting Christian religion, one will eventaully be convicted by hearing God's Word..and faith will come... and one will become saved ( again,only IF they are hearing the Word of God being preached, and NOT just man's opinion ). So therefore,it is SALVATION that makes one a true Christian.... because that person now , no longer just has religion...but now has relationship with God ...which comes thru salvation. And that is what a real christian is. 
Simply put....a christian is One who is born again. And hopefully..ALL...especially upon the hearing of God's Word, will also be born again one day. Too. Amen.
LOL LMAO, Nice try MS, hope your doing well, Let me ask you though, why do you want to be saved? or have others saved? what are your hopes or beliefs in this next life and what will be your rewards for your good stewardship of christs teachings? what are your hopes and expectations for the waiting infinite life that awaits you or others who follow him? Personally i don't want to live forever, and i guarantee you my wish will come true, are you as sure of your wishes? Other questions answer directly please, thank you, 1, it is said by christ that there will be neither marriage or given in marriage which would rule out sex in the afterlife, according to gods commands of having to be married for that. i assume unless you point out where this differs that that would also mean no angels would have sex either even before mans creation, that could mean that angels had no sexual organs except it also says that after the fall, angels mated with female humans. If the angles as i understand it, were non sexual beings, why would they have sexual organs to begin with? what would the purpose be, if they are neither man or woman what good would it do them? Now i don't know how you feel about sex in general i would assume you think it's fine or wonderful when with the right person and in marriage, and if you like it, by chance, then why would you want to live without it, not for decades or centuries but for eternity? is it your belief that when you die you will remain that age forever? If not what age will you be do tell? will children that died at birth or when very young still be that age? If so, will their minds still be infantile and remain that way forever? So many questions so few answers - and please baby, none of the only god knows stuff, I've already been through that scene a thousand times. |
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Topic:
Fake Christians
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Personally I see myself as an agnostic atheist. Which means I do not hold a belief in god, I also do not hold a positive belief that god does not exist. Basically no evidence exists which requires a god, I only believe in things which has positive evidence, therefor I do not believe in god. Most of the time when I get into discussions it all comes down to what a person wants to call god. I have very little to complain about for pantheists, it comes down to definitions, and we just dont agree on word usage, all other facets of reality we agree on. I think science often gets put into this category of you cant figure out this truth with science, but I disagree if the thing in question is a god interacting with the universe. The Deist god is truly agnostic in terms of non-interaction. If it exists it no longer interacts and thus cannot be seen to exist but might exist. Theist gods however are supposed to be involved in the universe, they set examples, and have desires and wants. They might provide you with free will but they want you to do things their way and interact at times in order make a positive or negative example. Its my belief that a Theists god can be scrutinized with science, at least we should be able to see the affect this god has on the normal natural workings of the universe. Like the ripples on a pond vs the object that created the ripples. My problem with these kinds of gods is that if we find that the mechanisms for the reality respond universally the same as they would without a god being involved then we are left with no god, a trickster Theist god, a Deist god, or Pantheist god with no way to sort out which. If the trickster Theist god likes to change things and then make it seem natural he could and you would only find the evidence he wanted you to find to hide his connection to reality. I really dont know if thinking about this from this broad categorical level helps or not, but I sure find it interesting! Presently i hold that there are no gods of any kind except those made by man. We don't see the workings of any gods except by those who hold that whatever is or has happened to them is because of there faiths or beliefs or seemingly answered prayers etc..My step mom was cured of cancer by b-17, though many had told her they were praying for her [catholic religion], of course her taking the product was unknown to them when they kindly enlightened her to the fact of gods miracle. Then once they found out, then again it was "see, through you giving her the vitamins, god had answered our prayers", that's the thing about "faith" no matter how something happens if it's good, then god is given the credit, lol. but when the prayer warriors pray day in and day out for the duration of others that do not make it and die, the answer is gods will was done and they are now in a better place. a religious catch 22, does that sound like the markings an all knowing all powerful god? To me it simply means that people are willing to believe whatever they believe no matter what others may think or say or do. Does that make anyone wrong? No, it just doesn't make them right either. there are so many more important things to concern ourselves with than magic, well.... except maybe for jellybean, lol. |
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Topic:
Fake Christians
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the point was about BASHING others beliefs
You seem mad. (I think its all the bolded words that make you seen angry, if you are not then ignore the last question)
if a mother believes in prayer alone for cancer..whose business is it is someone else being asked to look after that child, or is she going to be the one doing it? if someone wanted to make this a 'christian nation', how is that any better or worse than making it a 'democratic nation',, until you have some CLUE of what their personal interpretation of the phrase means? judgmental thinking makes people feel pressured not to be able to draw upon their personal experiences but to follow 'studies' and statistics instead because we live in a nation of HUMANS we have both judgmental thinking that bullies others and twisted thinking that results in bad choices right and wrong are not a matter of what studies say or what others tell us, its a matter of how our actions affect the world EVERY freaking issue is not an issue of being right and wrong, any more than it is about being better or worse, its about peoples PERSONAL Experiences and what has worked FOR THEM that logic is every bit as detrimental to society as the 'witch hunting' philosophies referred to by non believers What interests me is that my opinion is seen as bashing, but yours is not? What is the difference? being better or worse Is a relational statement which can be assessed for accuracy.
Right and wrong is no different unless you relate it to something not tangible, or to a subjective state, or if the form of the question is nonsensical. Quick hypothetical question. - A 6 year old child asks you the same exact question I ask you. Would that make you more or less angry? Why? what 'question' was asked? Why you believe X generally, a sentence or paragraph in all caps indicates elevated emotions on the contrary, when I am capitalizing a word or two within a posting, it is to emphasize the IMPORTANCE of the concept or word in relation to what Im posting,,, as far as questions I take a six year olds questions with more sincerity and less intent to ridicule because they have usually not had the experience to know the answer themself,,,, it would help me , in the future, for people to specify if they wish for me to discuss with them as if they are a six year old, and I will try to oblige,, YES PLEASE, but make it 4 years old instead ok? |
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Topic:
Fake Christians
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The REAL reason people get angry at having there beliefs questioned is becuase they have built up a personal image based on those beliefs. Human memory is based in large part on idealizations not the actual detailed data. We form conceptual, visual, and sensory impressions of what it means to be something, and we take that idealized self and hold it up as what it means to be this, or that ect. The wonderful thing about holding only objective truths (or at least for the important questions) is that any questions can be refereed back to the object itself. However when the belief is based on faith then the only reference is the idealized image of self itself, it becomes personal. ..thus why 'you are bashing my chit' always seems to come into play. Religion itself, no matter where its origin, is all based on Faith. ..but if you are truly firm to your belief. There is no reason to feel threatened. Because true faith, true belief; should not and can not be swayed. ..to take offense to someone questioning your belief.. Only shows that you cling to it by a tiny string. Too much pressure and it will snap. ..again, that is by appearance.. Possibly not the truth, but that is how it is perceived. What is truth? Is it something universal? Is my truth your truth? or yours mine? If i had a god would she be mad or offended by your god? would she feel inferior in some way or superior to yours? Or if it was a he would this also be "true", The book god did not make man in his image, man made the book god in his, as all other gods before and after.Why one would consider one god more "true" than any other is beyong common sense. The history of religion is a long game of power struggles led by those who knew and know that "by Faith" as well as fear of punishment and rewards, people would cowl down and act in ways deemed "good" by those in power.A way to control the masses, religion is the farthest thing away from what you deem "truth". Truths are a dime a dozen and have changed with the every whim of those in power at the time, be it social, political, scientific or religio. There are only two "truths" - That "change" is inevitable,and man's own stupidity, and i'm not absolutely positive about the first one.lol. |
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Topic:
Fake Christians
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The REAL reason people get angry at having their beliefs questioned is becuase they have built up a personal image based on those beliefs. Human memory is based in large part on idealizations not the actual detailed data. We reassemble memories based on small amounts of data as it meets generic idealization of the core concepts of the memory. Not much memory is of the memorized form, most is conceptual re-assemblies. We form conceptual, visual, and sensory impressions of what it means to be something, and we take that idealized self and hold it up as what it means to be this, or that ect. It FEELS real! The wonderful thing about holding only objective truths (or at least for the important questions) is that any questions can be refereed back to the object itself. However when the belief is based on faith then the only reference is the idealized image of self itself, it becomes personal. Excellent response BB, it was exactly coming to this realization many years ago that led me away from religions of all types along with many other realities also. |
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Edited by
tribo
on
Tue 07/26/11 08:56 AM
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We are not the creators Jellybean, we simply share that which is in the vibrational whole. There is but one god and he is Mr V he is infinite, he, is all in all. Everything else is but a facet of the un-ending vibrational surround of all that exist that we both can see or sense or all that we can not see or sense. Vibration is eternal and will never cease. It is the cause, the reason, the force behind the curtain that all fail to see or understand.
Man dwells on what he senses and that is all he can do when he limits himself to what he can sense. Studying the facets of whats at the core and missing the core itself. Therefore he never comes to a sound conclusion of what is at the core or the core itself. He has wasted milleniums doing just that and it has gotten him no closer than what he believes now. It's the old "can't see the forest for the trees syndrome" man so foolishly continues to follow. THE TRUTH Jellybean, all else is but speculation, theory, educated guesses, shots in the dark.
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My favorite Einstein quote:
"There are only 2 things that are infinite, the universe and mans > stupidity <, and i'm not sure about the universe." There is only one god - Mr. "V" And i'm digging his good vibrations :) |
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7932485454526581006&ei=QGGCSa_tKJPSjgKwnOWUCw&q=Ne w+rulers+of+The+World,+The#docid=-515319560256183936
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Topic:
Dear Dan
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Hi, my name is Dan, and i am your local Agony Aunt. Please drop me a note detailing your problems and i will help you to solve them. All posts wanting my help must begin, Dear Dan.. DEER DAMN< EYE HALF UH TIEPING IMPEBDEMINT< Id seamz i camnot hidt du prober kees awn thu kee bored an mose uf mie wurds arr mrzspilled? whud wood yu sugjest I due aboud diz prawblum? yur freend twibo |
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Topic:
Encouraging sin? .
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Abra,  I can always picture you in a cape with a staff lecturing to those christian masses!
*hops on her soapbox* First and foremost, I will never judge someone's actions as sin or sinful, because that is determined by God alone! Second, as a christian, if you feel you need to point out to a fellow christian that what they are doing may not be right, go right ahead. However, preaching to the masses that they are sinful and sinners will not bring those to God, it will repeal them like vinegar and oil! *hops off her soapbox* what a nice answer :) May i ask what type of soap you use and is it that good you buy it by the box?? :) Could it be "DOVE" soap by chance ????? |
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Topic:
2012 a myth or a deadline
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What will happen in 2012 - is that we will know once and for all any truth or falseness that occurs, then we can move on to the next important date and find out the same ad nauseum :)
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Topic:
Does the Bible say
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nice try spidey. Oh, nice try Tribo. Some people are surely fooled. But Jesus wasn't telling anyone to call someone a heathen, so my original point still stands. But instead of taking the definition of the translated word (which is never acceptable), let's go to the original... ethnikos Translated: Heathen 1) adapted to the genius or customs of a people, peculiar to a people, national 2) suited to the manners or language of foreigners, strange, foreign 3) in the NT savouring of the nature of pagans, alien to the worship of the true God, heathenish a) of the pagan, the Gentile Notice that the definitions are about conforming to the behavior of non-Jews? What Jesus was telling his followers was to not follow the example laid down by the non-Jews, but to pray as the Jews do. He was calling Jews who pray like non-Jews heathenish, he wasn't commanding his follows to call anyone a heathen. But wait, there is more! ethnos (the root word for ethnikos) 1) a multitude (whether of men or of beasts) associated or living together a) a company, troop, swarm 2) a multitude of individuals of the same nature or genus a) the human family 3) a tribe, nation, people group 4) in the OT, foreign nations not worshipping the true God, pagans, Gentiles 5) Paul uses the term for Gentile Christians Notice that Paul used this word to describe his own followers! The word Jesus was using actually means more akin to "gentile-like". It wasn't a bad word or a slur, it was simply a way of specifying that the speaker was talking about non-Jews. then what do we do with the words "infidel and swine spidey" jesus: Mt 7:6 Give <1325> (5632) not <3361> that which <3588> is holy <40> unto the dogs <2965>, neither <3366> cast <906> (5632) ye your <5216> pearls <3135> before <1715> swine <5519>, lest <3379> they trample <2662> (5661) them <846> under <1722> their <846> feet <4228>, and <2532> turn again <4762> (5651) and rend <4486> (5661) you <5209>. 2Co 6:15 And <1161> what <5101> concord <4857> hath Christ <5547> with <4314> Belial <955>? or <2228> what <5101> part <3310> hath he that believeth <4103> with <3326> an infidel <571>? strongs swine - 5519 - choiros [khoy-ros] = sine, a swine - swine = pig. strongs,<571> infidel:apistos, - unbeleiving, faithless, unbeliever, not to be trusted, perfidious, without trust in god. so spin these spidey?? |
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Topic:
Does the Bible say
Edited by
tribo
on
Fri 12/05/08 03:33 PM
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Not all Christians are alike. Everybody interprets things differently. And I'm the one that just told somebody on here that I'll never call them those things. yes but the bible says it though. Do you believe it? If not then you don't believe everything the bible teaches. If you do believe it to be correct then you don't have to say to one they are a heathen/infidel because you think it for believing it. Please explain how this works. The Bible doesn't call non-believers that. The Jews were commanded to treat non-Jews with respect. So the answer is no, it's not Christian to call someone a heathen, etc. Okay now I understand. The bible doesn't call nonbelievers these names. It is a fundamentalist view of a nonbeliever that said this and somehow lured into the air for many to believe. It is good that I know now. thank you 
I didn't say fundamentalist. I believe it's something that an uneducated Christian would say. One who didn't understand the tenets and mores of the faith. Or someone who was hot tempered and lost his or her cool. Well thank you for clarifying this. Now I understand. I always thought it was mentioned in the Bible. Now I know 
Jesus words in Matthew: 7 But <1161> when ye pray <4336> (5740), use <945> <0> not <3361> vain repetitions <945> (5661), as <5618> the heathen <1482> do: for <1063> they think <1380> (5719) that <3754> they shall be heard <1522> (5701) for <1722> their <846> much speaking <4180>. Paul says: 17 And <1161> if <1437> he shall neglect to hear <3878> (5661) them <846>, tell <2036> (5628) it unto the church <1577>: but <1161> <2532> if <1437> he neglect to hear <3878> (5661) the church <1577>, let him be <2077> (5749) unto thee <4671> as <5618> an heathen man <1482> and <2532> a publican <5057>. Strong's <1482> greek - heathen means heathen someone who does not believe in the one god jehovah. you are a heathen smiless, so is krimsa, abra, and anyone else who does not recognize and beleive jehovah to be "the" only god!! nice try spidey. |
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Topic:
What happened?
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read my edited post above - 
history shows even when many teach or prech it changes nothing and just leads back to a leader type institution again - lived thru the 60-70 been there done that - and now look - it did no good at all!! hippies love children, and flower people, makes no diff. now the hippies are yuppies and leaders of the nation, good luck with that. one thing i know for sure is history repeats itself. we either learn or we don't. That mindset is what sustains the dis-ease tribo. REMINDING, or instilling (whichever term you choose) these facts... and they are facts... we are and own our personal power.... we ARE NOT victims... which is where the dis-ease is flourishing... we are personally powerful.... and it is doesn't require having power over others.... it is freeing... and is a fact.... not a 60's flower child philosophy. i have treid for 3 decades to get people to see this - ill leave it to you and others now - good luck - you'll need it. Do you find you notice people who appear joyful, content, and calm? Are you attracted to them, (not sexually, but socially)... do you find yourself wanting to be around those knid of people? Thats the only way one can 'get' anyone to do anything.... Arouse in the other an eager want... By being that, which others desire for themselves... not much in the present but very much in the past - as i said it works for a time, but everone eventually goes there own way - maybe better off than they were sometimes, but eventually being swallowed up by lifes daily needs and wants and circumstances, i have seen it happen to many who talk like you and others - thats why i said - good luck -
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Topic:
What happened?
Edited by
tribo
on
Fri 12/05/08 02:17 PM
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read my edited post above -
history shows even when many teach or prech it changes nothing and just leads back to a leader type institution again - lived thru the 60-70 been there done that - and now look - it did no good at all!! hippies love children, and flower people, makes no diff. now the hippies are yuppies and leaders of the nation, good luck with that. one thing i know for sure is history repeats itself. we either learn or we don't. That mindset is what sustains the dis-ease tribo. REMINDING, or instilling (whichever term you choose) these facts... and they are facts... we are and own our personal power.... we ARE NOT victims... which is where the dis-ease is flourishing... we are personally powerful.... and it is doesn't require having power over others.... it is freeing... and is a fact.... not a 60's flower child philosophy. i have tried for 3 decades to get people to see this - i'll leave it to you and others now - good luck - you'll need it. |
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Edited by
tribo
on
Fri 12/05/08 02:13 PM
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""Worst piece of loophole logic I have seen in a >>whikle<<..."" Whats a "whikle"? an abbreviation for white pickle? A typo.... glad you focussed on the IMPORTANT part of my diatribe....
i always hone in to the core meanings of a discussion - when one starts somewere let me know - 
maybe i should change my moniker to diatribo -
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