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Community > Posts By > zunelander
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Edited by
zunelander
on
Sun 07/13/14 07:25 AM
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IMHO, there is a misunderstanding of what 'believing in Jesus' means, as well as a misunderstanding, among some, that a person has to be a Christian in order to enter heaven. There are a lot of things in the bible, but not all things in the bible are applicable now. Especially, since Jesus discarded the law of Moses as being a necessary set of commands. Only the law of Christ is applicable for humanity now. All of humanity, not just anyone who calls themselves a Christian.
IMHO, God is not concerned with religious labels and/or affiliations. He's more concerned with whether a person does what his law requires. That person could be a Christian or not. If you're a Christian and you fail to do what the law requires, then you will suffer punishment for disobedience and the title of 'Christian' will have no saving power, as it is irrelevant if you've lived a life of disobedience to the law of Christ. I believe, it's a part of God's plan that all of humanity is reconciled back to God, in the end. This is due to God's grace. However, while we're here, we are to live by the law of Christ. If we don't, there will be temporary punishment for those who disobey and mistreat others. Their reconciliation comes after their punishment. All just my humble opinion, ofcourse:) |
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Topic:
Fav singer?
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DoNNa SuMMer
> Bad Girls > Hot Stuff > Love Is The Healer > Breath Of Heaven (Mary's Song) > Lamb Of God > On The Radio > It's Only Love > Drivin' Down Brazil > Crayons > Dinner With Gershwin > Don't Wanna' Work > She Works Hard For The Money > Get Ethnic > Fame (The Game) > He's A Rebel > I Feel Love > I'm A Fire > MacArthur Park > To Paris, With Love > Melody Of Love (Wanna' Be Loved) > Our Love > Ordinary Miracle > The Queen Is Back > This Time, I Know It's For Real > When Love Cries > Bring Down The Reign Of course, there's more, but that's enough. LOL. |
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I believe God is a spirit and we all are a part of God. Made in God's image. Thus, we are spirits also, but in a fleshly body at the moment. So, since I believe God is the beginning and the end and God is spirit, then spirit was created first since that which is the Alpha is spirit in essence.
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Edited by
zunelander
on
Sat 04/30/11 06:33 PM
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Provide a verse or two, please. Thanks! Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
MY REPLY: I've actually been thinking about this verse for a while after having read the books I suggested earlier. The reason I believe that not everyone who says, "Lord, Lord!!" will enter heaven is because they were not the doers of God's will, which is Christ's law: love thy neighbor as self. They were the doers of works: Things they thought they had to do in order to be saved/justified before God. As I pointed out earlier, the DOERS of the law are justified before God. Works do not save a person. ,,,this seems to imply there are some souls which will not enter the kingdom (not EVERY one)
MY REPLY: It does seems so, doesn't it? I would agree here. However, there's more to it than just what you know thus far. Stay tuned:) Romans 2:13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
why would a distinction of RIGHTEOUS need to be made if it made no difference in the end? MY REPLY: In the very end, it does not make any difference. However, in between, it does. You see, you may be thinking of a place called hell where those who have not accepted Jesus as their personal Savior will end up. Being tormented forever because they rejected Jesus. However, in the original language, hell is not hell as we have been taught. It is Gehenna. A place of temporary punishment. The righteous are not only Christians or those who have accepted Jesus as their personal Savior. The righteous are those who follow Christ's law, love thy neighbor as thyself. Of which this could be anyone. Not necessarily a Christian. "Believing in Jesus" is not about accepting Jesus as your personal Saviour. It's about believing what Jesus said saves and living accordingly. That is what "believing in Jesus" means, as I understand it. You follow the law, you are justified. Christian or not. God is no respector of persons. The bible has Jesus separating people on his left and people on his right. This can be found in Matthew chapter 25. Jesus separates those who loved their neighbor from those who did not. Those who cast out devils in Jesus' name and who do all other such things except love their neighbor, they are the ones told "I never knew you!" Anything outside of how you treat your neighor is works. And as mentioned, no one is saved by works. How you treat your neighbor is the summation of all the law and the Prophets. There is a distinction between those who are the doers of the law (the righteous) and those who do not live by the law but know it (the hearers/the unrighteous). It exists because there are two types of people in the world: the righteous and the unrighteous. If you are not a doer of the law, you will have to go through a purging process before you are reconciled to God in the very end. That which is within you that kept you from loving others will have to be purged from you before you spend eternity with God. The place this takes place in has been mistranslated as being a placed called hell in our modern day bibles. Only, we have been taught that it's eternal torment for unChristians. Instead, as I see it, it is Gehenna in the original bible. The original Christians believed in temporary punishment, not eternal punishment. Eternal punishment was introduced around the 5th century by a man named Jerome who was asked to translate the bible into Latin (ie. the Latin Vulgate). So, the distinction exits because the fact is there are two groups of people in the world: those who love their neighbor as self and those who do not. The distinction matters because if you don't live by the law the first time around, you are separated from those who did live by the law. You will have to endure your punishment for an age (ie. a limited amount of time) and then you will be reconciled to God, as 1 Corinthians 15:22 states. Paul knew this. He speaks of it in Romans 11:24-32. I believe this is the secret or mystery he hints of in these verses. Luke 6: 24 But woe to you who are rich,for you have already received your comfort. 25Woe to you who are well fed now,for you will go hungry.Woe to you who laugh now,for you will mourn and weep. 26Woe to you when all men speak well of you,for that is how their fathers treated the false prophets
...jesus seems to be suggesting a contrast for those who will be able to rejoice and those who will have woe,,,, suggesting to me that it wont be ALL who can rejoice at the end,,, it could also be that he was speaking to a specific audience in his presence, not meant for everyone throughout time, but even that suggests a recognition by JESUS that everyone will not share the same experience,,, MY REPLY: You are right! Not everyone will share the same experience. Some are immediately reconciled to God (ie. Those who are righteous because they lived by by Christ's law). Others will not have that experience due to their disobedience to the law. They will experience something else before they are reconciled to God. In regards to the verses in this quote, if you are rich, but money owns you, woe unto you. You need to give some of that money to those in need. If you have much food, but do not share it, woe to you. If you are well spoken of, big deal! Are you well spoken of because you are one who loves your neighbor as self? In the right contexts, these things are good. In the wrong context, which I believe these examples are being mentioned in, they are not so good. |
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Everyone goes to heaven, but how can one know what it's like if one has never been there? what would be special about heaven if everyone went? Heaven wouldn't be special if only some went. Though, I can see how some would think it would be special. If everyone went to heaven, which the original bible says is so (and some aspects of our modern bibles does as well) it would show everyone that we were created in love and reconciled back to God in love. It would show us that when we were asked to love our enemies and forgive seventy times seven that God also loves "His" enemies and forgave others in the same manner. It would show that God's love is unconditional. If everyone went to heaven, it would also support 1 Corinthians 15:22, which says that in Adam, all die. Even so in Christ, all shall be made alive. It's a comparison of everyone being sinners due to Adam versus everyone living due to Christ. Verse 26 also says death itself will be destroyed. Which means no one dies because death will have been destroyed. No one dies because there is no death to go to. It has been destroyed. All are made alive, so there is no death. This is what I conclude based on my own personal study into the matter. Of course, I have no hard evidence other than faith, but 1 Corinthians 15:22 is a good start:) interesting interpretation, so how do you synchronize that interpretation with what Jesus himself was saying about not all seeing the kingdom,,,if all actually WILL see the kingdom,,,? Provide a verse or two, please. Thanks! Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. ,,,this seems to imply there are some souls which will not enter the kingdom (not EVERY one) Romans 2:13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. why would a distinction of RIGHTEOUS need to be made if it made no difference in the end? Luke 6: 24 But woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your comfort. 25Woe to you who are well fed now, for you will go hungry. Woe to you who laugh now, for you will mourn and weep. 26Woe to you when all men speak well of you, for that is how their fathers treated the false prophets ...jesus seems to be suggesting a contrast for those who will be able to rejoice and those who will have woe,,,, suggesting to me that it wont be ALL who can rejoice at the end,,, it could also be that he was speaking to a specific audience in his presence, not meant for everyone throughout time, but even that suggests a recognition by JESUS that everyone will not share the same experience,,, I'm working on this. Give me some time before I post it:) |
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Edited by
zunelander
on
Sat 04/30/11 04:40 PM
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interesting interpretation, so how do you synchronize that interpretation with what Jesus himself was saying about not all seeing the kingdom,,,if all actually WILL see the kingdom,,,?
Just another example of how the Bible has been misinterpreted by so many different people that its basically useless as far as finding the truth is concerned. ITs not such a useless resource to me, its just not always simple. I Think the verse Zune so lovingly refers to, is not a statement that all will be made alive in an absolute sense, it is the utterances of paul speaking to believers about the difference between physical life(adam) and the spiritual existence (Jesus),,,the context of the discussion, actually is in regards to being risen from physical death but not a reference, necessarily, to seeing the kingdom at least, thats how I interpret it and how I correlate the two verses in a way which makes sense I think I get what you're saying, but even if in Adam ALL physically die, in Christ ALL spiritually live. After all, it does not say, "In Adam ALL die. Even so in Christ SOME shall be made alive". I still think it's a comparison of the first Adam and the second Adam. The first has to do with death while the second has to do with life. The first applied to everyone. The second also applies to everyone. It's an equal comparison between the two. |
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Everyone goes to heaven, but how can one know what it's like if one has never been there? what would be special about heaven if everyone went? Heaven wouldn't be special if only some went. Though, I can see how some would think it would be special. If everyone went to heaven, which the original bible says is so (and some aspects of our modern bibles does as well) it would show everyone that we were created in love and reconciled back to God in love. It would show us that when we were asked to love our enemies and forgive seventy times seven that God also loves "His" enemies and forgave others in the same manner. It would show that God's love is unconditional. If everyone went to heaven, it would also support 1 Corinthians 15:22, which says that in Adam, all die. Even so in Christ, all shall be made alive. It's a comparison of everyone being sinners due to Adam versus everyone living due to Christ. Verse 26 also says death itself will be destroyed. Which means no one dies because death will have been destroyed. No one dies because there is no death to go to. It has been destroyed. All are made alive, so there is no death. This is what I conclude based on my own personal study into the matter. Of course, I have no hard evidence other than faith, but 1 Corinthians 15:22 is a good start:) interesting interpretation, so how do you synchronize that interpretation with what Jesus himself was saying about not all seeing the kingdom,,,if all actually WILL see the kingdom,,,? Provide a verse or two, please. Thanks! |
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Everyone goes to heaven, but how can one know what it's like if one has never been there? what would be special about heaven if everyone went? Heaven wouldn't be special if only some went. Though, I can see how some would think it would be special. If everyone went to heaven, which the original bible says is so (and some aspects of our modern bibles does as well) it would show everyone that we were created in love and reconciled back to God in love. It would show us that when we were asked to love our enemies and forgive seventy times seven that God also loves "His" enemies and forgave others in the same manner. It would show that God's love is unconditional. If everyone went to heaven, it would also support 1 Corinthians 15:22, which says that in Adam, all die. Even so in Christ, all shall be made alive. It's a comparison of everyone being sinners due to Adam versus everyone living due to Christ. Verse 26 also says death itself will be destroyed. Which means no one dies because death will have been destroyed. No one dies because there is no death to go to. It has been destroyed. All are made alive, so there is no death. This is what I conclude based on my own personal study into the matter. Of course, I have no hard evidence other than faith, but 1 Corinthians 15:22 is a good start:) Well I'm coming to your church. 
LOL. My church is simple: Do what Jesus says: Love thy neighbor as thyself. Do this and you shall live. Why is it so important? Because how you treat your fellow man is how God sees you treating "Him" in the flesh. That's why Jesus makes it a point to show that how you treat others is the royal law (James 2:8). I'm just sharing what I believe the original bible teaches. My church has no walls. It's made of flesh and bone and it is in you. Just love your neighbor. Show love and compassion, for you are doing it to God when you do. Show hate and maliciousness and the like, you are doing it to God. Of course, I'm playing along with your statement about me having a church, but I hope you get my point:) I actually don't go to church. Going to church is not a requirement to being justified by God. It's actually considered a work, as in, not saved by works. As the bible says, the doers of the law are justified, not the hearers. And the law is love thy neighbor as thyself. Why else would an uncircumcised man be seen as if he were circumcised just by him being a doer of the law? Because circumcision is a work, but actually being a doer of the law is what saves you(Romans 2:26) |
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Edited by
zunelander
on
Sat 04/30/11 04:10 PM
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Everyone goes to heaven, but how can one know what it's like if one has never been there? what would be special about heaven if everyone went? Heaven wouldn't be special if only some went. Though, I can see how some would think it would be special. If everyone went to heaven, which the original bible says is so (and some aspects of our modern bibles does as well) it would show everyone that we were created in love and reconciled back to God in love. It would show us that when we were asked to love our enemies and forgive seventy times seven that God also loves "His" enemies and forgave others in the same manner. It would show that God's love is unconditional. If everyone went to heaven, it would also support 1 Corinthians 15:22, which says that in Adam, all die. Even so in Christ, all shall be made alive. It's a comparison of everyone being sinners due to Adam versus everyone living due to Christ. Verse 26 also says death itself will be destroyed. Which means no one dies because death will have been destroyed. No one dies because there is no death to go to. It has been destroyed. All are made alive, so there is no death. This is what I conclude based on my own personal study into the matter. Of course, I have no hard evidence other than faith, but 1 Corinthians 15:22 is a good start as well as the books by author Michael Wood: The Jesus Secret, Breaking The Romans Code, The Hidden Bible, and The Jerome Conspiracy. Definitely would not hurt to pick up those books and read them. They are bible based and awesome eye openers. |
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The tragic burning of the great library of Alexandria destroyed over 500,000 scrolls amassing the collective thought of the ancient Greeks, Egyptians, Macedonians, Babylonians, and unknown others, depriving these priceless items from future scholars. The original copies of the Homeric texts where presumed destroyed. The original handwritten copies of the Old Testament from the Aramaic and Hebrew into Greek were destroyed. Original scrolls about ancient medicines, geometry, astronomy, and mathematics were lost forever. These scrolls could have provided modern scholars and historians with answers about the life and thought of the ancients, instead of having to guess or deduce from third hand sources. I thought I would just let you know about this. If only I could have seen these scrolls for a little while!! If you're interested in related things similar to this, I suggest some books by an author named Michael Wood: The Jesus Secret, The Jerome Conspiracy, The Hidden Bible, and Breaking The Romans Code. Check out his site and some of the Dead Sea Scroll info: http://www.michaelwoodcrypto.com/ |
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Edited by
zunelander
on
Sat 04/30/11 09:02 AM
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Everyone goes to heaven, but how can one know what it's like if one has never been there?
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Topic:
What do you Believe.
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1. I believe that we are all spirits inside of a human, fleshly body. God is a spirit and so are we. Made in God's image: spirit.
2. I believe we were created by God. 3. I don't believe that God created all of us just to end up eternally torturing some of us. While the world sinned, Jesus did for us all. 4. I believe that Jesus' answer to how a person inherits eternal life is quite different than what is being taught today regarding how one inherits eternal life. 5. I believe we all will be reconciled to God after even death has been put to death. 6. I believe that to "believe in Jesus" was originally intended to mean to hear what Jesus said saves and act accordingly. To believe what he said saves versus what the religious leaders of his day (and ours) say. 7. I believe that not only Christians go to heaven. 8. I beieve that the hell referred to in our modern bibles refers to Gehenna. One is different than the other. 9. I believe that a good number of people believe that the word "eternal" always means forever, which it does not. 10. I belive that when you love your neighbor, you are loving God. Loving neighbor is the same as loving God. 11. I believe that the original Christians believe in temporary punishment and not eternal punishment. 12. I believe that it would be odd to believe that we are expected to love our enemies if God doesn't also love "His" enemies. 13. I believe it's a little insufficient to think God is all male when humanity was made in "His" image. Humanity is make of males and females. 14. I believe God is no respecter of persons. All will be judged on how they treat people. No one is God's favorite. 15. I believe that a uncircumcised man who keeps Christ's law will be seen by God as a circumcised man. Christ's law is this: love thy neighbor as thyself. 16. I believe that Sodom and Gomorrah has nothing to do with the issue of whether or not a gay relationship is acceptable to God. 17. I believe that the Good Samaritan story that Jesus tells reveals a lot. One of which, it shows that just because someone is a priest (or the like) does not mean they are following Christ's law. The story also shows that someone who may be looked down upon in society can be one who is accepted by God since he (or she) shows love to their neighbor, which, again, is the same as showing love to God.l 18. I believe that the verse that says, (paraphrasing),"Everyone who loves is of God" only supports Jesus's royal law: love thy neighbor as thyself. Even further, the verse that says,(paraphrasing), "If anyone says he loves God but does not love his brother is a liar" further supports Christ's law. 19. I believe when the bible says Jesus separates the people. Some on his left and some on his right, this separation is dependent upon those who "believed in Jesus". Meaning, they believed what he said saves and the lived accordingly towards their neighbor. 20. When the bible says Jesus says, "I never knew you" to those who cast out demons in his name, I believe Jesus says he never knew them because they were too caught up on works and not loving their neighbor. That's why he sends them away. They did not follow his law. 21. I believe that loving thy neighbor as thyself is Jesus' law. All else that has nothing to do with how one treats his or her neighbor is works. 22. I believe going to church is a work. It's nice to do, but it's not a requirement. 23. I believe that the books I suggested will open your eyes to all that I have said. With bible verses to back it all up. 24. I believe I need to go to bed now:) |
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Topic:
Highly Recommended Reading
Edited by
zunelander
on
Fri 04/29/11 02:52 AM
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I can respect your choice of the older version. The 1611 version is fine as long as you are able to properly understand and appreciate the old spellings of the text. The message is still the same. I can appreciate any version that remains true to the "holy", God inspired Word, and Jesus Christ is Lord of Lords and King of Kings...when they omit the "holiness" of the message and its writers...I want no parts of it. 
Actually, I don't think it's the same message. Which is why I started this thread with the recommended books I listed. I highly suggest reading them. In it's original language, the bible's message is not quite the same message as our modern day bibles. At least, not what's being taught. The big question is what is the Bible's original language? Greek? Aramaic? Hebrew? We have zero original works from the NT that survive today, blame the Romans for that I guess. My belief is that the original was written in Hebrew. There are clues throughout that lead me to believe this. For you, I would suggest reading the books I listed. They are about bible history. If you read just one, I would suggest The Jerome Conspiracy. However, I do suggest reading them all. Get back to me if you do. That goes for anyone here. Ok zunelander, you've read it, are you trying to get others to see biblical inconsistancies? If so you should take it to the religion forum, where they will eat that up. + + + 7, "For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 8, Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; 9, Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 10, But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: 11, Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles. 12, For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. 13, Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 14, That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us." I Timothy 1:7-13 Apostle Paul to Timothy I have only suggested reading the books I recommended. I have not said much of anything else other than we don't have the original bible in our homes, which we do not. That's all! I'm a suggester of books. They are really good books and with good reason. Better yet, try the link I provided to see what the author's intentions are. |
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Topic:
Highly Recommended Reading
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I can respect your choice of the older version. The 1611 version is fine as long as you are able to properly understand and appreciate the old spellings of the text. The message is still the same. I can appreciate any version that remains true to the "holy", God inspired Word, and Jesus Christ is Lord of Lords and King of Kings...when they omit the "holiness" of the message and its writers...I want no parts of it.
Actually, I don't think it's the same message. Which is why I started this thread with the recommended books I listed. I highly suggest reading them. In it's original language, the bible's message is not quite the same message as our modern day bibles. At least, not what's being taught. The big question is what is the Bible's original language? Greek? Aramaic? Hebrew? We have zero original works from the NT that survive today, blame the Romans for that I guess. My belief is that the original was written in Hebrew. There are clues throughout that lead me to believe this. For you, I would suggest reading the books I listed. They are about bible history. If you read just one, I would suggest The Jerome Conspiracy. However, I do suggest reading them all. Get back to me if you do. That goes for anyone here. |
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Topic:
Highly Recommended Reading
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I can respect your choice of the older version. The 1611 version is fine as long as you are able to properly understand and appreciate the old spellings of the text. The message is still the same. I can appreciate any version that remains true to the "holy", God inspired Word, and Jesus Christ is Lord of Lords and King of Kings...when they omit the "holiness" of the message and its writers...I want no parts of it.
Actually, I don't think it's the same message. Which is why I started this thread with the recommended books I listed. I highly suggest reading them. In it's original language, the bible's message is not quite the same message as our modern day bibles. At least, not what's being taught. |
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Topic:
Highly Recommended Reading
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I highly recommend this one. 
If only we had the original. I am learning that the original is my favorite bible. |
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Topic:
Highly Recommended Reading
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Books by author Michael Wood:
1. The Jesus Secret 2. The Hidden Bible 3. The Jerome Conspiracy 4. Breaking The Romans Code http://www.michaelwoodcrypto.com/ |
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It seems they are really scarce. Help a brother out here:)
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Topic:
Who's your favorite.
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Neither. Donna Summer. I don't own any Taylor, so I would choose Carrie Underwood between the two.
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Whitney had more soul, Mariah had more range,,, That's interesting since I can recall hearing things said about Whitney like how she didn't sound black or soulful enough. Too pop/white sounding. Of course, in my book, music has no color. Music is just music. No white or black music. But, humans. You know how we can be:) |
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