Cheif, I'm sorry to break this to you, you have been brain washed by your PUA thing or whatever, after you buddy told me to look it up last night, I did, I am willing to learn new things, when I looked at it, great concept, good therories, but way off base on most things. And they charge you for the materials, Subliminal CDs that have no noise on them, come on!!!! If you believe that I will sell you the Brooklyn Bridge too. It's about as good of an investment as those CDs.

well my experience has most certainly been different from how you describe it. taking a surface look at things wont really let you in on the depth. "dont judge a book by its cover." oh and "one man's trash is another man's treasure."
the genders especially see things with different values. you women see boxing as a stupid practice of violence; we men see it as a journey of entertainment, power, glory, and discipline, all of which are valuable to us. we men see soap operas as a useless waste of time; you women see them as a powerful emotional experience that teaches you life lessons or something like that.
and the most relevant explanation of all... you women have it easy when it comes to sex, dating, and relationships. all you basically have to do is choose. we men must struggle and compete with each other, not by subtle means like makeup and getting dressed, but by squeezing our brains to and beyond its limits...what gave birth to the pickup arts was this struggle, this uphill battle... it's really hard for the modern man to survive in the world of dating, and it's really unfair for you women to try to selfishly keep the all power to yourselves by attempting to deface our methods that ultimately share love in the world. you dont know what it's like, so step aside and let us learn.
this stuff really changed my life. my "before" picture was a suicidal goth who was depressed and repelled the girls i was attracted to. my "after" picture is a very sociable and happy guy who likes helping others...oh and i "get the girls."
I shall reiterate...
PUA material is bullsh!t and useless in the eyes of you women because you never saw the necessity for such a thing for yourselves in your entire lives. In modern society you have almost always been in the position of power when it came to sex and dating so you really don't know what it's like for men who feel like they must "win a girl over" just to feel that thing called love. It's just not humane to take away a man's right to love and be loved by spitting upon the tools he created to meet those goals. And why are you spitting upon them? It's because you almost feel OFFENDED by the very idea that you might not have all the power in the world... you're just so accustomed to having it all...
I believe people should stop trying to control things outside of themselves and accept BALANCE. (some Taoism for ya there)
You might say "hey youre being a hypocrit because pickup manipulates women and therefore is an attempt to control others" but my point is that it's NOT. Pickup is ultimately about controlling and understanding YOURSELF, which in a Taoist sense leads to enlightenment. By doing this you NATURALLY attract women and it feels completely natural to follow all these specific pickup models (some might not feel right for you because every person is different).
So, just as easily as you say that I have been brainwashed by my PUA thing, I could say that you should learn to let go of the stress that comes from trying to preserve your illusions in life.
These guys are selling hot work they slaved over to create in order to help others. They deserve to charge for it; it's the American way.
And by the way, "i" before "e." It's spelt "Chief."

So... I'm hearing... aside from all the generalities regarding the genders.. that somehow this experiment in social engineering has given you a confidence you otherwise would not have? Offers you a sense of having the upper hand in an otherwise impossible situation. I'm sure that stave's off those self defacing 'wolves' in your head for now.

However... there is a very thin line between self confidence and false confidence. If you progress in maturity you will hopefully make that distinction, but let me give you a few clues. Clues I had began to figure out a few years prior to my 18th birthday, and am still learning.

False confidence requires outside influence to bolster itself against the tide of low self esteem... continue the illusion. Either by getting the girl, or girls, as you have indicated, that employee of the month plaque on the wall at work.. Some use artificial means, such as drugs or alcohol... some over use cosmetics..or some other image enhancing method... etc.. Men tend to over extend themselves financially, buying sports cars.. other toys... Women - shoes, clothing.. that new furniture set.. anything sold on QVC... (pardon my generalizations. I mean them only loosely for sake of conversation)

True self confidence comes from within. It makes no difference whether you get the girl or girls. There is no need for outside pats on the back. There is no cause to squelch those voices that tell you to go toss yourself off a bridge. It just is.

False confidence is short lived. When it dissolves, stops working in your life... and it will in time. You find yourself back where you started. Not having gained. Finding yourself lost, still 16 or 17 emotionally, in a 20 or 21 year old body, perhaps. Possibly even living in illusion until you reach my age.. or worse.. my Fathers age when he passed away, if you are a true believer. Simply because you took a short cut and did not build self esteem in a real, substantive way. In that you have run the risk of using people.. taking from them, in an effort to make you feel better. Leaving a wake of people who had low self esteem when you came along, with worse self esteem...

Self confidence when it is real, builds slowly over time. It helps people by example. Without preaching, without books, without CD's.. People are drawn to you not because you tell them they are.. but because they sense something in you they want. True self confidence is infectious. It improves your life, it enhances others lives. It allows you to venture into the unknown without fear... without support.. without advice, rules or a security blanket of other peoples words in your head as your tool set in handling the various hurdles and obstacles we call life. However... the person who does have self confidence. despite their being capable of standing alone, never really is.

False self esteem is relatively immediate. Growing in leaps and bounds over a short period. It is based on artificial means.. very easily rationalized, explained and justified.

True self esteem is always a work in progress. That has no time, other then the time you might get on this earth. It needs no support, never has to be explained, never needs to be justified... and is recognised, not questioned.

Building false self esteem is pretty easy, because it gathers energy from outside of you, in a very rational scientific way. It is usually derived from fear. It looks uncomfortable from the outside. Yet the one who is plagued with it, does not realize this. Because they have never felt comfort in their own skin.

True self esteem is tough. It comes from within. It gathers force from experience, faith and calm. It is created through security, peace, and spirit. It creates choices in life not available to many.. and is truly comfortable.


No matter which path you take chief.. I wish you the best of luck and hope you do not stay in the game for too long. For both your sake and the sake of the people in your path.

"the genders especially see things with different values. you women see boxing as a stupid practice of violence; we men see it as a journey of entertainment, power, glory, and discipline, all of which are valuable to us. we men see soap operas as a useless waste of time; you women see them as a powerful emotional experience that teaches you life lessons or something like that.
and the most relevant explanation of all... you women have it easy when it comes to sex, dating, and relationships. all you basically have to do is choose. we men must struggle and compete with each other, not by subtle means like makeup and getting dressed, but by squeezing our brains to and beyond its limits"

wooo there buddy
i like a good ass kicking fight and personally love to watch UFC
and hate to watch soap operas so thats 2 things youre wrong about so you can't say all girls dont like certain things or like certain things
and as for the sex thing
its not as easy as you guys think it is either
girls do compete over guys and its not as easy as just "hey will you f me tonight?"
most guys but NOT all are just looking to get f'ed...and we girls see right threw it.
as for you life experances they were all in high school or middle school i know i played games in school but i have also lived threw a lot of things since then...get some relastionships with older woman under your belt and see if your "PUA" rules still work
"damn this site needs spell check1"

well said
Jistme

Jistme - I agree with what you said about false confidence and true confidence, but you fail to realize that the game I teach is something that teaches how to gain true confidence and that ultimately it doesn't matter if you get the girl. This is why I put "get the girls" in quotes. A PUA who really understands this stuff doesn't treat women like notches in his belt; he understand that they are people just like him.

duckiegiggles - I have mentioned before somewhere on this site that I have ran this "game" on older crowds and it actually works BETTER because the people who made this material were in their 30's and so on. Some of my peers I taught who are my age actually go for older women...and succeed. I actually prefer, generally speaking, girls my age, but to each his own... one of these guys, when he was 17 (half a year ago), ended up in a friends with benefits scenario with a woman who is a Stanford University graduate. He can also "open sets" consisting of 40 year old women and they all end up flirting with him. He has a taste for older women and is ironically now in an exclusive relationship with a girl younger than him. They look really happy together

And you're right. Lots of women hate soap operas and break other stereotypes like that. Many women can even see the value of pickup because they were patient enough to open up their minds to the concepts.

Nope Chief.. I'm afraid you and I do not agree. Indicative by your continued rationalizations, justifications...

Anytime I feel myself defending my beliefs, my personal philosophy.... Altering my argument to counter the opposing words. Only listening in so far as looking for potential holes I can exploit... I know I'm not standing on solid ground. I know I am not trying to fool you so much as I am trying to fool myself. No matter the belief or philosophy...

So, I stop.. and look within. Rather than continue on a path of futility. Whatever was working is not working anymore.

You, my young friend... aren't there yet.

For most of us who are a little further down the path of experience, and chose to learn from those experiences can see right through you. However.. there are those contemporary to me.. who are still stuck where you are.. So you will naturally draw them out.... in support. In an attempt to bolster your argument. Which you often bring up... The irony is.. a 44 year old man who subscribes to this line of thinking is something to be pitied...maybe even laughed at.. but mostly pitied. You.. in your teens? That is understandable and excusable.

As for me.. I could care less if I am supported or not. You will not see me gather forces or even mention in brevity... someone else's supporting my stance in an effort to give myself more credibility.

I say that I never altered what I said or my viewpoints in all of this, and I truly believe that I am speaking from solid ground. You say that I cannot possibly agree with you if I continue to cling on to the WORDS "pickup artist" that I personally think that you do not have a full comprehension of in terms of how a REAL practitioner of the pickup arts defines himself. It seems as though that I could potentially see where you are coming from, if I do not understand what you are talking about fully already, if I sit here and wait for 26 years. In the meantime I guess we can do nothing but "agree to disagree," ...even though I still say that the wisdom you are speaking from is totally congruent with the teachings of the PUA community.

with an attitude like that you wonder why women are treating you like **** and walking all over you.....what an ass

...who are u talking to?

the dude who started this....scared

Well just for the sake of discussion, lemme try to explain edukated's position here:

I can only assume that he used to be one of those "nice guys" that let women walk all over him like a doormat... After years of this confusing abuse, he probably became a little bitter when he opened his eyes and realized that guys who do the exact opposite things elicit the affections of the girls he liked (he saw how the classic abusive jerk-badboy stole the hearts of women everywhere). The rubber band snapped the other way and now he in a relatively deep end on the other side of the spectrum. I went through this phase, too. Over time the rubber band will settle toward the middle and he will achieve a happy medium that you guys won't criticize as much

All he's saying is "don't make the same mistake I made by playing the role of the nice guy because that never friggin works!!!" ...assuming that my analysis is correct.

Being the nice guy will earn you a woman's social acceptance, but she'll be disgusted at the very idea of having sex with you as if you were her own brother. Being the badboy jerk will get women to respond to you sexually, but they will hate you for it. Find balance.

nicely put

Being "nice" is the only way to find the special relationship that last forever. Being a jerk will get you a fling, nothing more.

Pay attention! Try the magical area in between those two realms. You'll find it quite awesome.

I think both sides need to show some respect. I don't expect men to do everything for me and I don't want to do everything for them...but gawd...show a little respect folks...(I'm posting to the post on the first page...haven't really read everything else) ('edukated'). For one, the only way I'm going to ask for the napkin is if I don't want to be impolite and reach across the table in front of everybody for it...unless we're all friends and just being silly...anyhow...sorry needed to vent... I like a guy because he's nice...yey so what...sue me...you won't get much...but a guy who shows...anyone...respect is good in my book...well at least its a plus

I understand, I basically am in my happy medium. I am by no means a push over and can be forceful. However I care to much about their feelings to hurt them. I guess that is the kind of medium you are talking about.

okay like i told you you have a good point but the more i think about it the more it bothers me....i understand he has been hurt but you kow woman have been hurt like this too....it goes both ways and i dont think that he needs to be bashing women and i was wrong for bashing him back....we need to all quit judging someone like this because each person is different and it's not always as you say....

my response to that is a smile


my response to that is another smile