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Topic: Jesus is not God here's proof...
yzrabbit1 Joined Fri 09/28/07 Posts: 1531	Fri 01/04/08 02:40 PM
of course it is....Jesus until his death at 33 was sinless....no one could say this on the planet....no one.....and babies are just that babies.....that grow up.......and learn right from wrong and still wrong....even at very young ages......so not the same.....gonna have to give you a time out soon rabbit......this again has all been said at least 100 times in at least that many ways....what are you not getting exactly. So you are making it clear here a 1 day old baby is a sinner. or to make it clearer a 1 day old baby that passes away is what 1- sinless like jesus 2- sinful

Abracadabra Joined Thu 04/12/07 Posts: 17851	Fri 01/04/08 02:48 PM
...If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. This has often bothered me. So much so that I have looked into this quite bit trying to imagine that Jesus was just using this as a metaphor to mean something else, but it sure does appear that he mean it quite literally (at least if we believe that the gospels are 100% verbatim truth of the words of Jesus) This would then mean that Jesus is quite literally saying that humans are capable of psychokinesis! Quite interesting indeed! Does this not suggest that mere mortals are indeed endowed with God-like powers that they aren’t even aware of? Jesus isn’t suggested that we need to pray to have God send in a troop of mountain movers. He’s actually suggested that we could move mountain at our whim. Nothing shall be impossible to us! Finally, what kind of faith is he talking about? I’ve never seen anyone move a mountain using psychokinesis. In fact, large groups of people have gotten together and prayed for rain and even danced for rain with no results. Does this then mean that no one has any real faith no matter how devout they believe themselves to be? Faith in what? Faith that we can actually perform psychokinesis? Faith there is a God? Faith that Jesus was really an incarnation of God? Feral, Spider, Miles, Eljay, Miquel, and many others claim to have such faith yet we haven’t heard on the news about any mountains having been moved around. Does this mean that they really don’t have faith after all? I would just like to be able to wiggle my nose make my cottage clean itself up, I’m not worried about moving any mountains.

Spidercmb Joined Fri 04/27/07 Posts: 13137	Fri 01/04/08 02:57 PM Edited by Spidercmb on Fri 01/04/08 03:04 PM
Feral, Spider, Miles, Eljay, Miquel, and many others claim to have such faith yet we haven’t heard on the news about any mountains having been moved around. ...do I have to? Okay, but this is the last time today. WHEN have I said that? When have any of these others claimed that? I have imperfect faith. I have doubts. I have weakness. I SIN. I have never once, not a single time, claimed to have great faith. I have faith. I have enough faith to accept Jesus as my savior. If I had perfect faith in God, Jesus would not be necessary in my life.

yzrabbit1 Joined Fri 09/28/07 Posts: 1531	Fri 01/04/08 03:06 PM
of course it is....Jesus until his death at 33 was sinless....no one could say this on the planet....no one.....and babies are just that babies.....that grow up.......and learn right from wrong and still wrong....even at very young ages......so not the same.....gonna have to give you a time out soon rabbit......this again has all been said at least 100 times in at least that many ways....what are you not getting exactly. So you are making it clear here a 1 day old baby is a sinner. or to make it clearer a 1 day old baby that passes away is what 1- sinless like jesus 2- sinful

Rapunzel Joined Tue 08/22/06 Posts: 16246	Fri 01/04/08 03:08 PM
Feral, Spider, Miles, Eljay, Miquel, and many others claim to have such faith yet we haven’t heard on the news about any mountains having been moved around. ...do I have to? Okay, but this is the last time today. WHEN have I said that? When have any of these others claimed that? I have imperfect faith. I have doubts. I have weakness. I SIN. I have never once, not a single time, claimed to have great faith. I have faith. I have enough faith to accept Jesus as my savior. If I had perfect faith in God, Jesus would not be necessary in my life. Amen Spider

Rapunzel Joined Tue 08/22/06 Posts: 16246	Fri 01/04/08 03:13 PM
I think I would seriously kick the **** outa this guy if I ever saw him in the street, & I'm a gentle man. I can always rely on you Brian to bring uplifting perspective to the dialog. well, at least he's being honest, up front & not playing games of lies or deception ~ he makes his point perfectly clear. " This is very interesting Repunzel. Up until now I would have thought that you were a peaceful Christian. You have really changed my mind by backing this call to physical violence in a discussion about some of the basics of the Christian religion. " I will challenge you now to point out a lie of mine in this thread. I can save you time cause there isn't one. I have no reason to lie in a discussion as basic as this. Good Luck to you Psalm 51:5 (King James Version) King James Version (KJV) 5Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. right here in your reply to me, Rabbit is the first place that i recall where you accused me falsely

Abracadabra Joined Thu 04/12/07 Posts: 17851	Fri 01/04/08 03:15 PM
WHEN have I said that? When have any of these others claimed that? I have imperfect faith. I have doubts. I have weakness. I SIN. I have never once, not a single time, claimed to have great faith. I have faith. I have enough faith to accept Jesus as my savior. If I had perfect faith in God, Jesus would not be necessary in my life. My apologies then. I thought you had more faith than you apparently do. I would have never guessed from your posts that you’re actually agnostic. Surprise surprise! Indeed!

Rapunzel Joined Tue 08/22/06 Posts: 16246	Fri 01/04/08 03:17 PM
" Repunzel you should really try reading a few threads. Educate yourself on what is being discussed before you embarrass yourself with statements that do not make sense. " I gave the Bible quote below as part of my proof that the Christian God thinks babies are sinners. I asked Ejay if this babies were innocent or died for sin his answer is below. The other things you see flow from that. you would have to read one page back to see it. 1 Samuel 15:2-3 (New International Version) New International Version (NIV) 2 This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy [a] everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.' " In response to your question - let's assume thry're "innocents", as you've surmised. Have you determined that this is a "negative" act because God does not meet your standard of ethics? What makes you think that you know what awaited these innocents? We all die. What we don't know is why it takes some longer than others to "leave here" - what awaits us on the "other side", and what the determinant judgement will be. To you - the act of the children being killed is a negative act because that is all you can percieve. But how do you not know that they have been saved from a life of misery and torment to spend their eternity with God, without having to be put through what might have been hell on earth? The fact is - you don't. So through this ignorance - you accuse God, of... what exactly? His not meeting your uninformed standards? His not telling you what his purpose was? Help me understand what your problem is Rabbit - because I'm just not seeing it. and the top of this quote from you is the other place where you have verbally attacked my intelligence so who are you to think that you know everything ???

yzrabbit1 Joined Fri 09/28/07 Posts: 1531	Fri 01/04/08 03:18 PM
I think I would seriously kick the **** outa this guy if I ever saw him in the street, & I'm a gentle man. I can always rely on you Brian to bring uplifting perspective to the dialog. well, at least he's being honest, up front & not playing games of lies or deception ~ he makes his point perfectly clear. " This is very interesting Repunzel. Up until now I would have thought that you were a peaceful Christian. You have really changed my mind by backing this call to physical violence in a discussion about some of the basics of the Christian religion. " I will challenge you now to point out a lie of mine in this thread. I can save you time cause there isn't one. I have no reason to lie in a discussion as basic as this. Good Luck to you Psalm 51:5 (King James Version) King James Version (KJV) 5Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. right here in your reply to me, Rabbit is the first place that i recall where you accused me falsely You say right there that you respect his honesty for wanting to kick the "blank out of me". I think everyone would read that the same way. No false accusation there

yzrabbit1 Joined Fri 09/28/07 Posts: 1531	Fri 01/04/08 03:19 PM
of course it is....Jesus until his death at 33 was sinless....no one could say this on the planet....no one.....and babies are just that babies.....that grow up.......and learn right from wrong and still wrong....even at very young ages......so not the same.....gonna have to give you a time out soon rabbit......this again has all been said at least 100 times in at least that many ways....what are you not getting exactly. So you are making it clear here a 1 day old baby is a sinner. or to make it clearer a 1 day old baby that passes away is what 1- sinless like jesus 2- sinful

Rapunzel Joined Tue 08/22/06 Posts: 16246	Fri 01/04/08 03:20 PM
WHEN have I said that? When have any of these others claimed that? I have imperfect faith. I have doubts. I have weakness. I SIN. I have never once, not a single time, claimed to have great faith. I have faith. I have enough faith to accept Jesus as my savior. If I had perfect faith in God, Jesus would not be necessary in my life. My apologies then. I thought you had more faith than you apparently do. I would have never guessed from your posts that you’re actually agnostic. Surprise surprise! Indeed! no apologies needed ... Christians are not perfect and never profess to be ... just that some always are trying to find a crack in their armor doesn't mean that they are any less than a soldier in the army of the Most High God

feralcatlady Joined Mon 10/08/07 Posts: 35491	Fri 01/04/08 03:21 PM Edited by feralcatlady on Fri 01/04/08 03:27 PM
Oh this is to much....this one is going to get done bit by bit. Sometimes I really wonder where some of you get you information.....Ok here we go. Abra writes: If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. This has often bothered me. So much so that I have looked into this quite bit trying to imagine that Jesus was just using this as a metaphor to mean something else, but it sure does appear that he mean it quite literally (at least if we believe that the gospels are 100% verbatim truth of the words of Jesus) This would then mean that Jesus is quite literally saying that humans are capable of psychokinesis! Quite interesting indeed! Does this not suggest that mere mortals are indeed endowed with God-like powers that they aren’t even aware of? Jesus isn’t suggested that we need to pray to have God send in a troop of mountain movers. He’s actually suggested that we could move mountain at our whim. Nothing shall be impossible to us! ANSWER: Using parables, Jesus related truth through intriguing stories with familiar settings. Our grasp of this parable hinges upon a correct understanding of its key elements: the sower, the mustard seed, the great tree which grew from it, and the birds which perched on its branches. What does the parable of the mustard seed mean? Matthew 13:31-32 tells the parable of the mustard seed: “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his field. Though it is the smallest of all your seeds, yet when it grows, it is the largest of garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and perch in its branches.” The first two elements are easily understood. The sower is Jesus Himself. He is the planter who came to atone for our sins so that we might become fruitful. The mustard seed was the smallest seed known at the time. While it becomes more of a shrub than a tree, it can reach about 10 feet high. The mustard seed represents the Gospel, starting very small but growing to reach millions throughout the world who will inherit the kingdom. The field represents all the people of the earth who will receive Him. The tree is rooted in Jesus Christ and has grown a harvest far beyond its initial planting. The King James Version says “it is the greatest among all herbs,” growing far reaching branches beyond natural explanation. The birds’ of the air in this parable probably come from the Greek word “orneon,” signifying ”to perceive, to hear.” The tree offers a refuge for His faithful to rest in Him. A tree, whose large branches offer a sanctuary for birds, was a familiar Old Testament symbol for a mighty kingdom which gave shelter to the nations. The tree represents earthly greatness and refuge to the nations. The tiny mustard seed, growing to be a tree, symbolizes Jesus’ offer of refuge and life in God’s Kingdom. Abra wrote: Finally, what kind of faith is he talking about? I’ve never seen anyone move a mountain using psychokinesis. In fact, large groups of people have gotten together and prayed for rain and even danced for rain with no results. Does this then mean that no one has any real faith no matter how devout they believe themselves to be? Faith in what? Faith that we can actually perform psychokinesis? Faith there is a God? Faith that Jesus was really an incarnation of God? ANSWER: Faith is believing that no matter what happens in your life....That He (God) and His Son (Jesus) are always there....The faith comes in with day to day struggles or even glories....It has nothing to do with psychokinesis......But all to do with knowing beyond all reason that He is there....and no matter the situation that He will watch, guard, and show you the truths of Himself and His son Jesus Christ. Abra wrote: Feral, Spider, Miles, Eljay, Miquel, and many others claim to have such faith yet we haven’t heard on the news about any mountains having been moved around. Does this mean that they really don’t have faith after all? I would just like to be able to wiggle my nose make my cottage clean itself up, I’m not worried about moving any mountains. ANSWER: But you have heard of things in our own lives.....things that have happen....and you can deny it and call it whatever you wish....you can make fun, joke, and basically anything your lil heart desires.....BUT THIS IS THE TICKET......MY FAITH IS UNWAVERING AND THATS ALL THAT MATTERS TO ME.....THATS ALL....NO MORE.....NO LESS......I asked for the Lord God to show me....He did......and that my dear Abra is all I need.

Rapunzel Joined Tue 08/22/06 Posts: 16246	Fri 01/04/08 03:24 PM
I think I would seriously kick the **** outa this guy if I ever saw him in the street, & I'm a gentle man. I can always rely on you Brian to bring uplifting perspective to the dialog. well, at least he's being honest, up front & not playing games of lies or deception ~ he makes his point perfectly clear. " This is very interesting Repunzel. Up until now I would have thought that you were a peaceful Christian. You have really changed my mind by backing this call to physical violence in a discussion about some of the basics of the Christian religion. " I will challenge you now to point out a lie of mine in this thread. I can save you time cause there isn't one. I have no reason to lie in a discussion as basic as this. Good Luck to you Psalm 51:5 (King James Version) King James Version (KJV) 5Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. right here in your reply to me, Rabbit is the first place that i recall where you accused me falsely You say right there that you respect his honesty for wanting to kick the "blank out of me". I think everyone would read that the same way. No false accusation there do not speak for everyone you accused me of being violent, without cause ... most people on this thread do not agree with you and do not put words into my typed dialogue that are not there ..

yzrabbit1 Joined Fri 09/28/07 Posts: 1531	Fri 01/04/08 03:24 PM
of course it is....Jesus until his death at 33 was sinless....no one could say this on the planet....no one.....and babies are just that babies.....that grow up.......and learn right from wrong and still wrong....even at very young ages......so not the same.....gonna have to give you a time out soon rabbit......this again has all been said at least 100 times in at least that many ways....what are you not getting exactly. So you are making it clear here a 1 day old baby is a sinner. or to make it clearer a 1 day old baby that passes away is what 1- sinless like jesus 2- sinful

Spidercmb Joined Fri 04/27/07 Posts: 13137	Fri 01/04/08 03:24 PM
no apologies needed ... I didn't see an apology. I think when someone slaps you, says "Sorry" and then slaps you again, the sorry doesn't count for much. But even if Abra isn't sorry, I forgive him. He knows I'm not agnostic, he just likes trying to get under my skin.

yzrabbit1 Joined Fri 09/28/07 Posts: 1531	Fri 01/04/08 03:32 PM
I think I would seriously kick the **** outa this guy if I ever saw him in the street, & I'm a gentle man. I can always rely on you Brian to bring uplifting perspective to the dialog. well, at least he's being honest, up front & not playing games of lies or deception ~ he makes his point perfectly clear. " This is very interesting Repunzel. Up until now I would have thought that you were a peaceful Christian. You have really changed my mind by backing this call to physical violence in a discussion about some of the basics of the Christian religion. " I will challenge you now to point out a lie of mine in this thread. I can save you time cause there isn't one. I have no reason to lie in a discussion as basic as this. Good Luck to you Psalm 51:5 (King James Version) King James Version (KJV) 5Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. right here in your reply to me, Rabbit is the first place that i recall where you accused me falsely You say right there that you respect his honesty for wanting to kick the "blank out of me". I think everyone would read that the same way. No false accusation there do not speak for everyone you accused me of being violent, without cause ... most people on this thread do not agree with you and do not put words into my typed dialogue that are not there .. Ok you stand with Brian and his name calling and Violence and I will stand over here refusing to do the same. I will not call names, will not threaten violence and I think those who read these threads can make there own judgments. The way you represent your religion does more service to my cause then my words ever could.

Abracadabra Joined Thu 04/12/07 Posts: 17851	Fri 01/04/08 03:32 PM
Christians are not perfect and never profess to be ... just that some always are trying to find a crack in their armor doesn't mean that they are any less than a soldier in the army of the Most High God The very idea that Christianity has become nothing more than being a ‘soldier’ in a war of doctrine is indeed very sad. This view suggests that everyone who doesn’t believe in said doctrine must then necessarily be an enemy of God. I can assure you that I am no enemy of God, or Jesus for that matter.

yzrabbit1 Joined Fri 09/28/07 Posts: 1531	Fri 01/04/08 03:33 PM Edited by yzrabbit1 on Fri 01/04/08 03:34 PM
of course it is....Jesus until his death at 33 was sinless....no one could say this on the planet....no one.....and babies are just that babies.....that grow up.......and learn right from wrong and still wrong....even at very young ages......so not the same.....gonna have to give you a time out soon rabbit......this again has all been said at least 100 times in at least that many ways....what are you not getting exactly. So you are making it clear here a 1 day old baby is a sinner. or to make it clearer a 1 day old baby that passes away is what 1- sinless like jesus 2- sinful Too tough to answer?

Abracadabra Joined Thu 04/12/07 Posts: 17851	Fri 01/04/08 03:42 PM
Oh this is to much....this one is going to get done bit by bit. Sometimes I really wonder where some of you get you information.....Ok here we go. So you're saying that it was indeed intended as a metaphor for spreading the faith. To "move mountains" simply means to convince a lot of people to believe what Jesus was teaching. I can buy that to a point. In fact that was indeed my first rational impression, it's just that I think it's a bit of a stretch to make that metaphor in the context where it arises, and in particular with respect to how it was phrased. It was a bit too specifically worded about moving a mountain from hither to thither to be suggestive of being anything other than a literal meaning of moving mountains for me. But whatever. Everyone has their own interpretations. If there’s one thing the Bible is famous for it’s extremely ambiguity allowing for a very wide birth of interpretations. My response to Kat on this issue was actually intended as a bit of tongue-in-cheek. A bit of silliness. I’m in a silly mood tonight. I didn’t think it would bring about a genuine serious debate.

Chazster Joined Tue 08/28/07 Posts: 6206	Fri 01/04/08 03:46 PM
I could never look at a baby and call it a sinner. I think babies are beautiful and wonderful and perfect. Not a blemish. To think that your religion can make you think that there is a flaw there is very disturbing. Again noone said its a sinner or flawed. Don't pretend you know what others believe and try to put words in their mouth. It just shows your ignorance on the subject.