well, in a sense, the basic religious beliefs for most if not all religions are implemented in society today...murder is illegal, stealing is illegal, and in some countries u get ur limbs chopped off for that one, in most cultures, except ours, pre-marital sex is highly disregarded and against the law, honoring ur parents is a biblical prinicple that is still implemented in most societies, except ours haha blasphemy is still WAAAAYYYY highly against most laws except ours....and that's the big one that i dont get.....how can we take God's name in vain so often on t.v., and yet they bleep out ass, or ****, or the f word and stuff.....never got that one. taking God's name in vain is most definiely a sin in the eyes of God and most religions, yet it's perfectly ok for u to say on t.v. but like i said, n stated here, most societies do already reflect religious beliefs within the laws....

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

Spider-

RE:" 1) They were bears, not wolves. "

Yep. My mistake (not that it really matters what animal "God" used to tear apart and kill children.

"2) They were young men, not children. Not every translation is perfect. Isaac was a "young man" when he went with his father to be sacrificed...a young man of 37 years old. They were probably younger than Elisha, but they weren't children by any strech.
3) They were mauled, not necessarily killed. "

MIne (King James) says "Children" and "killed".

"4) You don't understand what the insult "Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head" means. "Go up" means "get lost". "bald head"...we aren't sure, maybe Elisha had shaved his head, it's very unlikely that he was naturally bald. The insult was in this fact: The people respected Elijah the prophet (Elisha's mentor), but not the God Elijah served. Elisha spent much of his career as a prophet trying to explain to people that it was God who was great and that he and Elijah were just vessels for God's mercy. They weren't insulting Elisha, they were saying that God had nothing to do with Elijah's power and that Elisha didn't matter. God picked Elisha as a messenger to the Israelites, so if the people mocked Elisha, they wouldn't listen to his very important messages. So God made sure that next time, nobody would insult his messenger."

I don't care what the insult means. My god does not answer words with physical injury or death.

=============================================================

"You know what I thought when I first read your post?

Oh anoasis (covers his eyes and puts his head down)... really? that's what you put all your creative efforts into? I think you can do better.

(Sigh). "


I thought that was funny. Hopefully that's how you meant it. If I hurt your feelings with my post in the other thread then I am sorry and I apologize. Sometimes I think I am funny when I am not...

Of course I wasn't actually using any creativity to quote from another source anyway... while you created something from scratch... the fact that I found it prejudiced and offensive was not a good reason for me to be so sarcastic towards you. I don't take our disagreements personally and I wish you well.

Abra-

"Even though I’m not gay I am an American and I believe in FREEDOM!

Therefore I MUST vote for gay rights!!!"



Beautifully (and simply) put.

Invisible

I have a friend, we've been friends for 40 years. As a teenager he had this dream of creating a retreat for the artistic. A place for those people who needed time to 'BE' philosophers, painters, writers, song writers, musicians, anyone who had a creative desire. He wanted this place to be in sight of mountains. For the land to be the offering of all that was needed to exist and a bit of work from everyone to make that land yield.

I knew then, what I know today, it was a dream but if it were a goal of many - what could stop it from happening?

I like your place, I think I'll invite my friend, if you don't mind. He's one of the best sketch artist I have ever seen. He could have made a living out of that talent, no doubt. But, it's his passion, and even at the age of 25, he understood that making money from one's passion has a way of destroying the place that passion comes from.

Redy-

Black Mountain, NC is nice if you're not familiar- http://www.blackmountainarts.org/

I love it here in Miami but I do miss the mountains... and the trees... fall... sigh... maybe *I* should go to Black Mountain!

Anoasis,

"I don't care what the insult means. My god does not answer words with physical injury or death. "

My God knows that most injury and death starts with words. Shortly after that incident, every single priest in Israel was killed, except for Elisha. It was a terrible time and those who worshipped God were in open season.

Ahhh.... Spider... Absolutely!!! And there were many other killings of children and adults... in many ways... some attributed to God, some not... but what you point out is also exactly my point my friend...

That is why "He" is not my god... there is a lot of killing in general in the old testament... and many other sacred books as well...

I only believe in self-defense or defense of another...

Peace to all.

anoasis,

"I only believe in self-defense or defense of another... "

Ditto.

q- whats so offensive about the law as laid down in the bible? ( other than the fact that it is expected that you live a moral lifestyle, which many here seem to take offence to.)hmmmmm

rambill79,

Something that would be offensive to me as a Christian, is the first second, third and fourth commandments. In Israel, foreigners were allowed to have their own religions and they were not forced to be Jews. Lying would be illegal, which would clog up our courts with frivolous lawsuits. If a child were to fail to honor their mother and father, what would be the punishment? And if you married someone whom you loved, but your parents didn't like, how long would your wife wait for you while you served your prison sentence?

Some of God's laws make excellent secular laws, but really we are to live by those laws not force our beliefs on others. If you could get a law together that made it illegal to commit adultry, I would vote for it. But I don't believe that the 10 commandments should be made law through fiat and I believe that enforcing all the 10 commandments upon all people of a nation wouldn't please God in the least. The first four commandments would require lip service from the people who didn't believe in God.

repost

law should reflect human rights

and if human rights coincide with a religion

oh well

but religion should not be a basis of law

anoasis - What a wonderful place, I will have to add this to my list of places I'd like to visit. Thanks for sharing it.

Spider - I liked your comments about why using the 10 C's would not be a good idea for the law. However, keep in mind that a law with regards to adultery, would only be good if ALL citizens had the right to marry.!!!! (my agnda you know?)

I have to agree though, with Adj - When the reasoning and rational within a society happen to reflect similar religious views, that's no reason to think they were implemented because of that religious view, nor should they be.

Redykeulous,

You have the right to marry a member of the opposite sex and under an adutry law, you would be allowed to sue your marriage partner if he were unfaithful. All people have the same rights. Now you are thinking that you can't marry the person you love, well I don't have the right to marry whoever I love. Jessica Albi won't even give me her phone number. You get homosexual marriage on the ballot and I'll vote against it. If it passes I'll respect it and your right to marry another woman... Unless it's done by the federal government, the right to regulate marriage belongs to the states.

Spider you can vote for or against, I respect that right. But you have to understand that when you say this:

""Unless it's done by the federal government, the right to regulate marriage belongs to the states.""

That the states can only go so far as the Federal Code allows. The Constitution states clearly, no state can put create a law that is in direct conflict or overrides the qualities of that document. The Federal code by the mere definition of the word marriage, effectively discriminates against a group of people.

The states can never make right that error, only Federal action can set it right. So no matter what each individual state does, it will never make right the injustice in our Federal system.

If marriage was to be strictly a State decision, than there should NEVER have been laws at the Federal level concerning such things.

It can't be both ways and only one path can be followed to correct it.

Redykeulous,

Maybe I'm being dense, but I am not aware of any federal marriage laws. If there is a federal law, it's illegal. Unless the constitution explicitly gives the power to the federal government, the power belongs to the states. So unless there is a constitutional admendment that legalizes homosexual marriage, there is no legal way that the federal government can do anything about marriage.

*sighs* you need crumpets in here

Fruit crepe fever at IHOP. Fruit crepes pwn crumpets. If you drive, I'm buying.

Spider writes:

"You have the right to marry a member of the opposite sex and under an adutry law, you would be allowed to sue your marriage partner if he were unfaithful. All people have the same rights. Now you are thinking that you can't marry the person you love, well I don't have the right to marry whoever I love. Jessica Albi won't even give me her phone number. "

A specious argument, since the marriage you covet with Jessica Whomever is neither mutual or consensual. As for you first premise, if we applied that to the First Ammendment, it would come out as "Congress shall make no law restricting the practice of the One True Religion, Christianity. Everyone shall be free to practice this One True Religion."

"You get homosexual marriage on the ballot and I'll vote against it. If it passes I'll respect it and your right to marry another woman... Unless it's done by the federal government, the right to regulate marriage belongs to the states. "

So you think the Defense Of Marriage Act is unconstitutional, right?

-Kerry O.

KerryO,

"A specious argument,"

Actually it was a joke.

"So you think the Defense Of Marriage Act is unconstitutional, right? "

I don't think that, I know that. Since the constitution does not give the power to regulate marriage to the federal government, that act is illegal. That doesn't mean much, so was the Roe v Wade decision. So was the Assault Weapon ban.