Yes, Jesus was the very first of Allah's creations.

After Jesus being created in the spirit-realm he continued to live for thousands of years in the presents of his Creator as well as other spirit-creatures like Angels and Jinn.

Eventually, Allah, in accordance with prophecy, sent Jesus to Earth to be born of a virgin maiden by the name of Mary. She was a righteous woman and Jesus' being imparted into Mary was not thru any man having conjugal relations with her.

To say Jesus is 'born of God' is an acceptable metaphor, but can not be taken as literal.

The True God does not reproduce other 'baby-gods' because none will ever succeed or usurp His being the owner of the Universe.

Allah, can not die.

He (Allah) always was and always will be.

Please read Proverbs 8: 22----- Thru to the end of the chapter---->

For what purpose do you want me to read from the New Testiments for.

I am not quoting directly from any book, but generalizing what I have read and understand, from one perspective.

My point is; why does each different belief need to argue, debat, or fight over a personal choice of faith. There are so many parts that many agree upon, and are the best building blocks of finding mutual understanding. This is why I feel the writings' were misinterpreted. Not saying one is at fault, but misinterpreted of an ancient language or different ancient languages.

Proverbs is from the Hebrew Texts (Old Testament)

The issue is there is only One Almighty God and he doesn't share his glory with other 'would-be' gods.

Good Night, SpicyExcel.

My opinion as with most thing jesus did was to show ppl acceptable worship to GOD , he said ' you must pray this way '----'father why have you forsaken me' etc in my opinion as i said before , he allthough looking like being 'abandoned' on the cross , one of the thiefs said ' if you are the son of God take yourself from the cross ' as did the Romans i think ...

As with praying , i think it was as an example to the humans/people that saw him , sometimes seeing something happen is an easier way for ppl to learn ?

There is question marks with the trinity doctrine i dont deny that , but Jesus utterly confirmed NOT denied he was GOD ....

Jehovah's witnesses put the article (a) in ' in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was(a) God is not in the Original Greek and ALL Scholars agree it is a misinterpretation .

Is GOD equal to Jesus ? To me the sriptures support it , they are three different beings allthough ONE , is it like my Son , who i can command to take care of business while im God with My Aurthority as the Romans did ? I Dont know and i dont get 'stuck' on it ...

The text clearly says Jesus is GOD who became flesh in ALL translations , The Quran isnt a bible tranlsation ...

In the end the bible says : ' and God loved the world so much that he let his son be put to death by his creation to save them '

Would you do that for someone that doesnt deserve it ? Jesus has ALL the Aurthority of GOD , he said I AM , the Jews knew excactly what he meant , as they said ' is it not GOD who can forgive sin and Not man ? Jesus forgave Sins and the jews hated him for both statements...

lol ok , i get the jist of the conversation , ive tried to be respectfull and correct with information , my twins start school this comming tuesday , ive been out running around , also drove 200 km round trip up the coast and just got back on the computer , but seems my time on this forum is up ...

Love you guys , Been a good conversation ...God Bless

Yer Sick mate , dont tar all Christians with catholiscm , cheer's ...

On Earth he had all the weeknesses and vunerabilities of MAN all Temptation , he had to see it from a human perspective not from above , jesus cried when lazarus died even tho he could and did resurrect him .

Sheik,welcome on board.It sounded strange to you that i told mighty moe to surrender his life to Jesus? 1 Timothy 2:5 says "For there is one God and one (not two nor three,Muhammed excluded and others)mediator between God and men,Jesus Christ",not an "allien existing in sub-atomic level" You probably know that even prophet Muhammed acknowledged the Lordship of Jesus before he left and started the movement that is setting the whole wide world aflame now."Neither is there any salvation in any other for there is no other name give to men whereby we can be saved except Christ Jesus" "I am the way,the truth and the life,no man comes to the father(God)except by me" I pray that skeptics wouldnt continue to argue and doubt the saving grace of Jesus or the obvious existence of God and his creation because the end time of all is almost here.Shalom!

Prophecy unfolding :-

The DOOMSDAY clock has now been moved from 5 minutes to midnight to 3 minutes to midnight , Science is now screaming what the bible has said for thousands of years ...

http://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/doomsday-clock-inches-forward-to-three-minutes-from-catastrophic-midnight/story-fnjwvztl-1227194078445

"��This is about Doomsday; this is about the end of civilisation as we know it,"��

"��The probability of global catastrophe is very high, and the actions needed to reduce the risks of disaster must be taken very soon."��

Yer like thats gonna happen , the outcome is predicted and a given .

2,000 yrs ago a sniper fired a bullet , it has nearly arrived ...

uche9aa , you do realize like i do as Jesus said that 'Most' peple will take no notice until like you said they see Jesus comming ...

At some point mate you have to expend your energies in 'other' places
I have spent alot of time on forums and talked to alot of people , everybody can see something comming 'WE' know what it is .MOST WILL NOT LISTEN , like i said you have to turn away and leave it to GOD .
( in No way saying give up on people but know when to move on )

It can bring you down , your # 1 Priority is your relationship with Christ as is mine , we can get distracted by you know who , with his inspired philosophies and Sciences , they all rampant in this age ..

The world he has , he is after YOU and ME ,you know he will use any means avaliable including the 'confusion' of others ...Keep your guard high , you know this is the time spoken of , things are happening so fast now we cannot keep up , keep your eyes on the prize .

This IS the great ' falling away ' and age of deception it will be over as quickly as it has arrived , the End isnt near it is here ..

The world is teetering precariously on Global Collapse , the rubicon has been crossed and the ANTI-CHRIST MUST be getting ready to enter the world stage as ' the saviour of the world '.....

weigh up where you use your energies 'these days'

Yes, Jesus did say he was the way the truth and the light, but it was relative to his time and the people who were in his presents.

We, could say the same of Moses too, in his day, couldn't we?

Really, it beckons the question, 'Is any prophet that has been sent by God to be ignored any more-so than any other?'

Hypocrites and weirdos galore, in ALL christian churches, not just catholic ones! When your lot open their mouths my ears just shut off, as the shite just flows constantly from you all!!

Oops double post!!

Very Good Th3Dv8!

So, You admit that the quote from John 1: 1 has been abrogated.

You've actually encountered Jehovah's Witnesses with their Westcott & Hort Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures.

Now, apart from 'how' the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society decided to translate this verse, did You bother to look at the actual Greek writing, itself?

Yes, I know the J.W.s wrote 'a god'... But, did You bother to look at the actual Greek words?

Okay Sport, here's were it gets interesting... When I was a teenager, I had a neighbor who was a J.W. and because I'd read this verse several times before already. I wanted to know how they'd translated it.

That's when he showed me there was something different, but the actual revision they'd made bothered me, too.

Years later, when I had moved to LaBroquerie, I met an old African missionary who had actually translated the original Greek texts into a local African tongue.

I had to ask him... "Please, can You translate John 1 verse 1 from the original Greek?" He old Pastor went back to his book-shelf and brought back a Greek Bible. (NO ENGLISH)

He started to read out loud, in Greek no less!

He gave the commonly perceived translation, the way most Bibles in English usually have it written.

But I said, "WAIT...! Why is the Greek word for 'God' written differently at the end of the verse from how it's written at the beginning of the verse??????"

The old Pastor sighed... "Well, it's NOT really 'God' written here at the end of the verse."

I pressed him yet... "Please, tell me how is it supposed to be perceived!"

He replied, "Well... It's God's!"

"You don't mean a plural of gods do You?" I replied.

No, no, no, it's possessive. (And He Sighed Again)

I thanked the old Pastor very much and said that this was a much-more tolerable translation of how it's commonly perceived.

He laughed and said, "If this helps You to understand it better, then your welcome."

So Th3Dv8, here's my next question...

You obviously don't affiliate Yourself with the Catholic Church, right????

So why would You want to be so gung-ho about the Trinity Doctrine that was only fabricated in about 325 A.D.?

Take Your time thinking about this... I'm not trying to trap You or humiliate You.

I once thought just like You!!!!!!!

Yes, for example, Jesus did say, "My Father and I are one." but he also said, 'Husband and Wife are made one, as well.'

A husband and a wife, just because they get married, don't become the same Entity though, do they?

Sheik,you would have been much better off a christian than what you are right now.Just imagine the havocs,murders,beheadings,bombings,rape,kidnappings,atrocities and confusion that those who profess your religion carry out in nearly every countries of the world.Two weeks ago,they slaughtered over 2000 innocent souls.Among the victims was a pregnant woman in labour whose child was half out from her.Children,infants and elderly men were butchered mercilessly.The leader of boko haram islamic terrorists said he was obeying what quoran mandated him to do as a true uncompromising faithful. Little off topic though.But what a better world we would have had if that religion wasn't invented!

In the greek there was no definate article , if there was it would be
"The God" becuase there was no 'THE' they therefor say it has to be "A" in John 1:18 same chapter :::::

"No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known."

There is NO definate article in between (seen) and (GOD) so on the same rule of these 'interpreters' the same Article "A" should be here also not whenever it suits them ...

So according to You John 1:18 should read :-

No one has ever seen (A) God, but the one and only Son, who is himself (A) God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

In the End what you are trying to do is put Jesus into the box as a prophet which is what iSlam believes ...

To you , you think Allah is God i do not , you think jesus a Prophet , i do not ...

To me it really doesnt matter if Jesus is GOD or the Son of God , God the creator of All is not the God of the Quran , sorry ....

All biblical schollars know precisely that not article (A) is in the greek ....No Actual Greek schollars themselves would subscribe to this use of the text in John 1:1

Dr J:r, mantley an eminent Greek Schollar was quoted by the watchtower as endorsing their translation of John 1:1 , THAT is an outright lie .

Quoting him " I have never read a translation that go's so far away from the original greek text , a shocking mistranslation obsolete and incorrect , biased and a deceptive distortion of scripture , dealing with the deity of CHRIST especially " , also they used johannes greber to 'help' with the translation , Joahannes greber is a spiritualist ?? Meaning he summoned demons to help with this translation , interesting ...

Oh and btw i should know i studied with JW's for two years , and studied 20 translations to know what i was reading was a close to humanly possible to the Original text ....

Your friend 'one' person who told you his translation is incorrect im afraid , you need to cross examine more than one , i have cross referenced 20 odd , you cannot take this one 'one' persons opinion ( I know what im talking about )

You by denying Christ as GOD and putting him as Prophet then allows you to discredit his claim of " NO-BODY comming to the father except through me " puts him as far as your concerned at the same level as your mohammud , and allow your Quran beleif of Allah , Allah is NOT the GOD of the bible , the two are opposed ...

Again your Question isnt about the Deity of Christ it IS about wether he is mere prophet or GOD which makes the Quaran mute , thats the real reason ...

Wether he is GOD or the Son of God or God as human who really cares from where i sit ? it matters alot froma muslim perspective tho doesnt it

Oh please , dont embarras yourself , i dont know your age , but i can tell you one thing ALL humans are sinners , Christians included .
Do you think when you become christian you are there and then made perfect?

I can run off a list of Atheist pedaphiles if you like ? Hypocrites and weirdos 'galore' ...

When us lot open our mouths your ears shut ? then why are you here to not listen to what we write ??

From what iv,e seen here with the 'respect' from everyone , even of different opinions you are the only one spewing hate ?

ANY Christian who is a hypocrite will not enter Gods kingdom ....

Matthew 23:2-13

"��The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other peoples shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. "

"��Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7 they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called �Rabbi� by others. "

"��Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in peoples faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. "( The Catholic Church , Pope and any other false pastor/prophet )

AND

Matthew 7:20-21

"So then, you will know them by their fruits"
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

You dont not seem to grasp that Religion and Christ need to be seperated as Do Fake/Lying Christians from true Christians ..

The Bible says they 'look the same , may go to the same church , sing the same hyms , memorize bible Scriptures perfectly .....

James 2:18-20

But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works." 19-You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. 20But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

plain and simple , shutout us weirdo's all you like , Gods Word is truth and btw GOD says he will judge you by the same measure in which YOU judge others ...

Matthew 7:5

how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye? 5"You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.for the same way you judge , you will be judged ...

and lastly as i dont intend spending energy on ppl of Hate ....

Proverbs 26:4

Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be just like him.

We could could'nt we ? But it wasnt recorded was it? You are trying hard to pigeon hole Jesus as a Prophet to fit your belief .

So that beckons the question that is The Bible more reliable being written by 40 authors fluently and crossed referenced by itself and other writings including the quran or is the Quaran more reliable being written by ONE man mohammud and being 'self referencing '?

Been out all day up the Murray River cliff formation collecting Fossils , got six nice specimens for my twin boys ...

I havent been a member of this forum long , only last two weeks i have commented on the boards , mostly its been respectfull and i thank people for that very much ...

I dont intend sticking around , this will be my last comment , we have said our views and as i said before i need to ' move along ' .

Especially when the abuse starts , i havent the time for it , not that people here have done that ....

I wont' be back , GOD BLESS ...

Cheer's John