From Australia this time.

The Christian Democrats are pushing for a halt to Muslim immigration because there has been no serious study of the effects of Muslims on Australia.

They say the 10-year measure would give some breathing space to assess the situation.

The party today officially introduced pastor Paul Green as its number-one candidate for the Senate at a media conference in Sydney.

Mr Green says he believes Australian people are very concerned about Muslim immigration and would support an immediate moratorium.

"If there was bird flu coming from a people's groups across the nation, would we not stop to assess the risk management of what it means to Australia and then assess the factors, and say, 'Is it safe to continue that or withhold it until it is dealt with?'" he said.

"We are saying there's cracks in the foundation."

I just thought this was interesting. For one thing some people in Australia are not on the equanimity bandwagon like Ted Kennedy here leads the popular support for here in the US. For another I find it remarkable that someone is immune to the politically correct malaise enough to take a national stand on the issue.

Likening a group's religious afiliation to a communicable disease seems incredible to me...

Politically incorrect? Philosopher it seems to me simple manners and basic respect would cause one to refrain from such a thing- no "political correctness" necessary.

Yep, politically this country leaves a lot to be desired...not sure what a Christian Democrat is though...haven't heard that term here...

my parents raised me right.i talk behind peoples backs lol.

Australia has had some serious problems with immigrants from Pakistan. Namely gang rape of young women and also an Imam in Australia said that women who are raped are guilty and not the men.

I'm not offering my opinion on the topic, just offering a broader picture of where this sort of thinking might be coming from.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID={3DC049A1-CE0D-4557-A3B7-2AD9C7BED66B}

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Jess642 said: "not sure what a Christian Democrat is though..."

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Oh...I would love to respond to that, but I won't.

Spider- what? restraint? or was it just too easy?

There are plenty of democrats who are christians. Just as there are plenty of money changers... oopsy.. I mean "republicans" who are christians...

Just kidding... I'm not serious enough for this today...

Jess! that food fight was the most fun I've had all week!!!

Spider, we don't have democrat and republic labels for our political parties...so I have no idea. We have Labor and Liberal and National Parties as the major parties, is all.

hey Anoasis, it is nice fun to just blow off steam..in a playful inoffensive way.


Just to clarify Spider,

The way it reads, and I may have interpreted it wrong in Philosopher's post that there is a political party called The Christian Democrat Party, here is Australia and I am unfamiliar with it is all...doesn't mean it is isn't so...just this one person is unfamiliar with it.

I thought it was a little over the top to compare muslims to bird flu. I do wonder why more people do not try to keep radicals out of their midst though. Hard to differentiate between radicals and muslims when they do radical stuff like flaunt their burkas in your face and such.

Philosopher did you go back and check your source? Where did the story come from?

Just curious....

We are a lot more tolerant to illegal immigration and espeacially legal immigration than Europe! I read the same article as you did Philosopher. It said that Australia has the strictest immigration policies in the world!
Read this:
http://immigration.about.com/library/weekly/aa071700a.htm


Immigration Europe: Crisis or Denial?

Greetings from the land of blonde braids, cheese and yodeling. After the alps, aren't those the images conjured up by thoughts of Switzerland? You might be surprised then, by a walk through Klein Basel, in the Swiss German part of the country, where olive skin, kebab and Turkish chitchat are the norm.

Until the mid to late 20th century, Switzerland was neatly divided into four groups that, despite cultural variations, all shared very "Swiss characteristics" and lived in relative harmony in the same small country. In their characteristics, the Swiss German, Swiss French, Swiss Italians and Swiss Latin-Romans* were united: They were neutral and peaceful, reserved, polite, very precise, hard working, clean, and criminal activity was virtually unheard of among them. The same is true today and the Swiss have been stereotyped as `too perfect,' and even `boring' because of it. The Swiss, though, naturally think this is the only way to be, and generally expect all others to be this way. In this regard they can be a bit naive. And this explains why the cultural diversity and unfortunate increase in crime that have accelerated with immigration, have sent shock waves through this most unprepared-for-immigrants of all European countries.

Switzerland is now one of the most favored of all European destinations for immigrants, who make up a steadily increasing 20% of this alpine country's population, and this alarms the Swiss. The populous recently voted to cut the ratio of foreigners back to 18%, which means the expulsion of thousands of legal residents is imminent. Like the rest of Europe, and in particular those countries in the European Union (which Switzerland is not), Switzerland is scrambling to cut back on immigration, both legal and illegal. But is it the right thing to do?

As a recent Time magazine article so poignantly pointed out, there are two sides to immigration in Europe. The dark side manifests itself in tragedies like the murder of a Swiss teacher who fell victim to a Croatian father's wrath when he tried to assimilate the daughter into Swiss culture. And in the deadly plights evidenced most recently by the 58 Chinese illegals found in Dover, England, who perished in a botched smuggling attempt. But few take the time to realize that the immigrant population is largely responsible for stimulating the European economy, creating new jobs and filling those that Swiss don't want to take themselves.

"Last year," Romesh Ratnesar of Time reports, "the 16 million legal immigrants in Western Europe earned more than $460 billion." In the European Union, the number of self-employed foreigners has risen by some 20% in less than a decade. In some countries, immigrants make up a substantial portion of the labor force, or even have higher average household incomes. All of that equates quite simply to spending power. But the notion that a certain amount of immigration is a good thing, has yet to catch on in Europe. Entry is being blocked more and more, leading to a lucrative underground world of illegal smuggling. The Dover incident prompted E.U. officials to review and possibly ease immigration and asylum policies for those with legitimate refugee claims.

Although it has signed various agreements for work exchange with the E.U., Switzerland insulates itself from the larger picture, to some extent, by remaining independent. At the moment, Italian, French and German borders of Switzerland are not substantially secure, and as the rest of Europe relaxes borders, those in Switzerland may be reformed in the opposite direction.

This despite a U.N. report released this year which stated that an aging population and downward spiraling birthrates will result in a labor deficit that will call for an influx of 35 million adult immigrants by the year 2025 to stabilize labor and economic conditions.

Right now, today, most of Western Europe is suffering from a lack of labor for low-paying jobs, as well as a gap in the technology pool. Foreigners can help fill these slots. Unless Europeans start having a lot more babies, right now, experts find it difficult to imagine how the need for immigration might diminish.

Although some strides have been made, proposals such as the one in Ireland, to bring in some 200,000 skilled laborers over the next seven years, are just too modest to make any tangible difference. Other programs like those in Germany, designed to approve residency permits to 20,000 techies over the next 3 years, are meeting with tremendous resistance.

Resistance, of course, means violence in some cases. In addition to terrorist tactics and acts of violence against refugees and their camps, organized hostilities are on the rise. One army in Italy is pushing for an immigration bill that would allow patrol boats to aspiring illegal migrants should they show resistance to being stopped.

Neither rolled up welcome mats, nor outright threats to life and limb have yet to put a halt to the influx though. Each year, hundreds of thousands make the perilous journey to a new land. And many pay for that journey with their lives.

That was concerning the EU. specifically 5 countries
Heres one concerning another:

http://www.radionetherlands.nl/features/dutchhorizons/weeklyfeature/050301doc

http://abs.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/50/12/1592

and another:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/2412249.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/4637273.stm

and another:

http://www.afroarticles.com/article-dashboard/Article/Tough-life-of-illegal-immigrants-in-Germany/3113

and close to home:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2006/03/27/to_portuguese20060327.html

http://www.immigrationwatchcanada.org/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=166


The list could go on and on. America is attacked over our strategies for handling illegal immigration! Due mostly to our dominance of the worlds news headlines! The fact is that we are far more humane towards our immigration policies than others.

Fanta- I would never want to hurt your feelings but if you could change pics again it would really help me out ... i can barely read your posts with those ummmm "gentlemen" staring at me...

Thanks!!!!!

Is this better anoasis?

Thats a lot of reading though!!

Much better... those boys are scary... I might have nightmares.

I can do the reading now although my eyes will burn from the glare!

Thanks.

From: http://www.radionetherlands.nl/features/dutchhorizons/weeklyfeature/050301doc

"If people are working well and paying tax and looking after their family, then on the basis of their work they should be given a final status. A first phase of three years, and then if they do well, another two years, and then they can be considered for a permanent permit and that will be good for the nation and good for the people concerned."

That sounds like a reasonable way to address the issue to me... I think that there is lately for some reason too much emphasis on having immigrants pay money up front to have a legal status... how is that more economically benenficial than giving them a start on a legal status and collecting taxes?

It does not make sense to me to say, you can be legal here if you can pay thousands of dolllars and go back to where you came from and then come back here??!!??

"A group of illegal immigrants tried to get into Britain disguised as nuns and priests, a court has heard."

Excerpt From: June 22, 2005: The Purpose Of Canada's Immigration Policies Should Be To Serve Canadians, Not Illegals.

"The main point is that the country has to make it as difficult as possible for illegals to get through a number of government-constructed "firewalls" and equally difficult for those ilegals to live a normal life. That is the rationale for the ban on hiring illegal aliens and the ban on giving them driving licences. People have to work, so demanding proof of legal status or driving licences when people apply for a job would be two of those firewalls. The country hasnt enforced immigration law against illegals but it has the tools to do it. Its a question of a commitment to enforcing the law."

I think 2 things:
1) most countrys already try to make it difficult for illegals to live a normal life. I believe this is why we have seen some increased criminal activity among these populations,

2) why not do the opposite- try to make it as easy for immigrants to become legal and live a normal life as soon as possible and pay their own taxes and health care etc as much as possible as soon as possible?


BTW- Although it is a serious problem, the disco scene from the article on Germany was also hilarious to me- I have that problem all the time....

Germany has imported Turks for years with no hope of them ever becoming legal residents! This was done just for the gain of cheap labor. When I was there on many occassions you would hear about instances of large groups of Germans hunting them down and beating them in the streets.
Europe is full of injustices like these, that are equal to or far surpass anything here.
That was my point, although they do not take promoninece in the news, illegal immigration is just as much a problem there as here. Only we hardly ever complain about legal immigration, I noticed several mentions of European countries wanting to deport legal immigrants!
I posted these was someone asked what were the laws in Europe pertaining to illegal immigration.
The Europeans are also the most condemning towards our illegal immigration policy proposals, as if theirs are better!