After you get to know them ask them what they think about the war or politics here and at home! Then listen and engage them with an open mind. I think you will be surprised!

it wouldn't be a problem for me fanta. i'm an extremely open minded individual.

you're right too. there are many people that are originally from the middle east in michigan. i want to add that we have never had a suicide bombing as of yet.lol

I beleive that of you!
Have you though? sat down and talked with a muslim!

nothing of any length but i definitely would not be opposed to it. the last time i even had an opportunity to talk to someone of middle eastern descent was the day the planes hit the twin towers.

Its an interesting proposition isnt it?

i wouldn't say interesting because i don't see a muslim as anything but a normal person with a different point of view but it is good to be exposed to a different point of view.

I find it interesting because our point of view is not all that different!

not the moral issues but alot of the customs. like philosopher mentioned with the way a lot of them expect their women to dress. i know not all follow them so stringently but some do. if you go to royal oak and some other cities that have large muslim communities you can see it everyday.

Yea, but you see that kind of difference among Americans.

I dont sport baggy pants showing my boxers, Cowboy boots and hat, or wear a ball cap on my head sideways either, but some people wont leave the house without it!

Mennonites, and the Amish dress different, and Catholics think differently than Jehovah witnesses!

My niece has dreadlocks and wears hemp clothes, but we have the same blood. Should I fear her?

What are clothes and beliefs? Aren't we all different in that respect?

Just throwing some stuff out there to think about.

yep, that's all i was saying. i don't think people should judge anyone based on a news clip about one person.

Me too, I get comments all the time from my friends. They say I'll talk to anyone about anything!
I have a lot of interesting conversations like that!
Im not shy, nor afraid!
I'll talk to Black people about subjects that have to deal with Black history!
Muslims about terrorism!
Illegal immigrants about being illegal!
And they are all usually more than glad to talk and share views both ways!
Except the illegals, they are usually scared if they can speak English and tend to not be real friendly! However the younger generation whose parents are illegal will talk openly, and I meet quite a few of them at school!
I had a very good conversation with a group of Jehovas this morning as I do every sat morning!
I met a very large group of Menonites once. Talk about interesting!
I also have friend who was raised in an Amish communitee. He is far from Amish now, but he talks quite freely about what it was like growing up Amish!

i agree fanta. you seem to have a worldly way with your ideas and are very informed. i think that only comes from actually experiencing things personally.

Thank you King,
This has been a nice conversation!

You have an intelligent and open way about you as well!

thanks man.

Philospher writes:

"When they had the last amnesty program, 20 years back or so, they put in place heavy penalties and fines for hiring illegals, then they largely ignored the penalties from that point on except for some few high profile cases. Now after so many years people suddenly want to turn back the tide. Some employers have been hiring illegals for 20 years now. Imagine the barrier to entry into a business when you have to compete with that, and yet you are told that if you hire illegals the government will crush you. The employers who break the laws have the advantage in cost and hiring of experienced workers. The effect is to bar new entry into the market. But for the company who had illegal employees for so many years, taking away their labor force has the effect of stopping their business activity."

So what? They're not above the law, and it sets a bad precedent to let them get away with behaviour that can be detrimental to the communities where they operate.

A company near here recently got put out of business for dumping toxic materials. Even after one of his competitors got read the riot years earlier when they did the same thing and contaminated the ground water for their neighbors. Eventually, the owner was forced to buy all the properties because they were now essentially worthless.

Should he have been let off the hook because he's a businessman? And even with the lesson, it didn't deter the new guy from pulling nearly the same stunt.

"The popular view to get rid of the illegals by targeting businesses who hire them will hurt your neighbors and your local economy."

And things like crime, identity theft, having to raise property taxes to educate the native born children of the illegals, and providing pretty much free healthcare doesn't?

You know what they say about free lunches, yes?

-Kerry O.

Good points Kerry-o, but there are plenty of trained skilled workers waiting and working in the Construction Trades. The trend to take away those jobs is not that old, and I know many home owners who will not hire companies with illegal employees to do remodeling on their homes.
Many do not mind the extra cost to do the right and legal thing, but the new home construction is dominated by illegal labor!

King-

Many people have the same misunderstanding about muslims- as Fanta mentioned most religions have a broad spectrum of practicioners.

Extremely conservative sects of many religions require that women be covered- purdah(including scarves or burkas) for some muslims and hindus, head scarves and wigs and long sleeves for orthodox jews, the amish and menanites, also some southern baptists etc.

The religions that use these practices normally view them as respectful of woman- to liberate the woman from being an object of lust, to venerate her, etc. I personally don't understand how this custom achieves that goal but it is not my place to decide for another...

On the other hand, some Muslims also believe these customs are outmoded or unhelpful. My best friend in high school was Iranian (although they always said "persian" in part to deflect prejudice away from them) and their family was Muslim but all dressed in modern clothing, etec.- e.g they were progressive Muslims.

FYI tenents of Progressive Muslims usually include:

1. The autonomy of the individual in interpreting the Quran and Hadith
2. A more critical and diverse examination of religious texts, as well as traditional Islamic precedents
3. Complete gender equality in all aspects, including ritual prayer and observance.
4. A more open view on modern culture in relation to customs, dress, and common practices
5. In addition to use of Ijtihad (or re-interpretation of scriptures), the use of the Islamic concept of fitrah, or the natural sense of right and wrong, is advocated.

Sorry if I strayed too far from the original topic...