Rape is about power and violence. Women can get raped no matter what they're wearing. They do not have to be dressed like a slut.

I don't advocate any of the behaviors prescribed in the Qur'an. I don't follow ANY religion. I believe in tolerance is given where tolerance is offered BUT when a faith or belief system employs a HOLY WAR for ANY reason tolerance goes right out the window.

I have had to deal with the NO issue. And needless to say I never see that woman again. And I am not talking about dealing with a woman who says no just being at my place. I am talking about no being used on me when I am foot down on the throttle becasue I got a green light.

I have had to stop after two straight hours of trying every position I could think of while I had the go in me but she was drying out. But then again we had done it a few times before so Stop was not such a bad thing. But BONE CUTTERS! STAY AWAY FROM ME IF YOU ARE A BONE CUTTER! I do not like dealing with people's personal issues and I am sure in the hell done with trying to fix other people! But this has nothing to do with the issue at hand...

I can live with others and not feel any need to be scared of them becasue they speak another language than me or their skin color is different. I got a lot of women who are just friends and sex is not even part of our relationship. I can argue with people and not have to get violent with them as long as they don't get violent with me.

Likewise I am not out hurting people. But Islam if you have not read a Qur'an nor had the education necessary to look into what any "creatively written" Theological and often Rhetorical "bible" a lot of times you just see what is written at face value. Likewise nobody takes into account the change over the years in the way people speak and present arguments. These "words of God" no matter who wrote them were made up by Humans.

So for what this is worth at least I am not some religious HYPOCRITE!


So one more time, I do not go around hurting people. I do not go around victimizing people.

But I also do not feel ANY sympathy for weakness or stupidity! I am just a guy sick of having to do all the dirty work for people who don't care. I am sick of being the fixer. I am sick of damaged goods surrounding me and damaged attitudes and damaged opinion.

So many angry little children stomping their feet and demanding things be the way they want them...

OK, No means NO! I have said this how many times too?

Date Rape sucks but some of it, I would think almost half if not more of it would end if MORE WOMEN PULLED THEIR HEADS OUT OF THEIR AZZES AND STOPPED BEING WEAK AND GREW A SPINE! LEARN TO FIGHT BACK! LEARN TO HURT PEOPLE WITH YOUR BARE HANDS! Stop assuming that the "Both Feet On The Floor," rule doesn't help prevent a make out session from going one step too far. Frankly you had better learn how to put up the damn fence so the cattle don't shove it over!

But is THAT statement also going to get turned against me too?

I am surrounded by far too much fake morality!

Um, DUH! Why do you think I say LEARN TO FIGHT BACK? Learn to defend yourself. When you go to a bar full of drunk horney men go with friends and make sure your clothing is NOT easy access! It does not have to be movement restrictive. You do not need to wear a Burrka. You do not need to wear a chastity belt.

But when it comes to date rape, if you keep opening the damn gates the horses will rush the last one...

You don't think us men cannot smell you or pick up on certain pheromones? You say no but your body in its panic begins to kick off a particular pheromone and suddenly the man's upper brain shuts down for the lower one! Just being scared of pregnancy is not enough to convince a man who can pick up on that smell to stop so readily.

We can over ride our biologies TO A POINT! But again if your fences are not well made your cattle will push through them. So is the way with a lot of men.

Why do you think our forefathers imposed the rules they did on us for dating, (like that stopped anyone from having sex out of wedlock). It was more to protect women from putting themselves in a foolish and compromising position.

First of all unless you are married or involved in a sexual relationship with a man (and I know there are times where this is not going to apply but for the sake of this argument bear with me) WHAT BUSINESS DOES A WOMAN HAVE GETTING INTO A BED WITH A MAN OR LETTING A MAN INTO HER BED??????

At least to me the only honorable place for a man to sleep if he is too drunk is on the couch if he is not involved with that particular woman! Otherwise the floor! I have had to sleep no the floor becasue of said personal policy more to protect MYSELF from other people's stupidity.

So am I still going to have to be the rat bastard here?

Whatever...

Ok, AndyB look I'm not surprised that you have things a little confused about Islam since you hate religions so much. I can understand what you're saying and thanks for sharing all your ideas. I don't like religion either and agree it's all written by men.
You said no means no, and you respect that. I believe you. I don't think you're bad. Everyone has their own little distortions.

Peace :)

You seem to assume that no women think before putting themselves into certain situations. I know that I and others in this thread have agreed and said that women should try not to put themselves into dangerous situations.

Maybe it's just the way you're trying to explain things that makes it sound like you're continuing to make up excuses. But, if it's about not wanting people to be stupid, we're in agreement.

I read a Qur'an. I have Read a Book of Mormon. I grew up on the Bible (RSVP but likewise I did study the King James version as well). I have even read the Bhagva Ghida and it is a LOT more than a sex manual. People confuse it with the Kama Sutra although the two have common themes one pertains to the spiritual, the other the physical. Although I have not studied Sikh in depth I know what they do and why they do it. They are probably the MOST tolerant faith with TAO a close second!

But Islam takes Misogyny, lying, murder, sedition, and domination to all new heights. Clearly YOU have never read a Qur'an. Do so and argue with me about women's rights in Islam! Please... Read a Qur'an otherwise you are coming from a place of intellectual ignorance...

And what you call distortions are others perceptions. Such that beauty is in the eye of the beholder after what I have learned, good and evil are rather confusing to me considering the examples I have all around me.

You ever hear the saying 'you think too much?' Well, some people assume too much too. Just becasue a pool of water "Looks" safe does not mean it is! If you cannot see down to the bottom you have no clue what is hiding in it.

You cannot be prepared for every situation. But putting up a fight might spare you more than you know. Likewise sometimes the Devil's Advocate may have your best interests at heart more than you think becasue here all I want to do is raise awareness that women being at a disadvantage need to learn to turn that disadvantage against itself.

I am not trying to argue for the sake of argument. I am trying to make sure that things are kept fair here.

Like I said, if I have to punish someone for raping a woman I want to know for damn sure this isn't someone who screwed up being drunk and was being led on by some cock tease who wrote a check her *** was forced to cash vs. a predator that deserves to be wiped from the face of MY world!

That being said, the guy shouldn't have gotten so drunk that he couldn't stop himself. It is still his responsibility to stop, even if he's drunk. Being drunk is not an excuse here.

I am not sure if you drink socially or not. Even I have lost control of myself drinking. Ever wake up with someone strange in your bed not remembering a thing about the night before? I have and the damnedest thing is I didn't remember anything about the night before after beating a friend of mine in a game of WAR (a drinking game involving two to four players and a ping pong ball or a quarter and a shot glass. Funny thing was the girl in question was nothing but praise for me the next morning and I again could not remember a damn thing. So did she rape me?

You are trying to poke holes in my belief system and that is not happening. I would bet even you can fall into the God Trap in Alcohol. Likewise tease a dog, and get bitten, no sympathy even if No means NO! Hurt feelings can be mutual!

There is no excuse for a woman who likes to hurt men's feelings. How about that being another topic we can all argue about? Just another "woe is me thread?" I'm game!

-YES IT IS

does no mean no

yes

do people always communicate no effectively

no


for example, if you ever watch the movie panic room, at a point the woman is answering the door and the cop is asking her if she is in trouble,,,VERBALLY she says no

but her BODY language is trying to signal them that she is...

now tell me , did her no mean NO? if she was also signaling yes by her body language?


would it be enough, if I drew a picture of a gunman and showed it to a cop while he asked me if anyone was in the house,, for him to say,, she said 'no' and no means no....?


there is verbal and there is body language, sometimes they conflict, and its not always the VERBAL message that is the intended communication,,,,


recap,, does no mean no

clearly, just as much as yes means yes

what either means when BOTH are being communicated,, is anyones guess

Yeah... I'm confused on why this is confusing?

Guys if a woman says NO... forget what her body says.. The police will only accept what she said!!

And what confuses me is why is it that a woman can be a cock tease and not suffer her share of punishment.

I am not condoning rape but to condone a woman's bad behavior is just as hypocritical.

A fishing worm does not want to be bait yet a few women out there think it is funny to bait men.

Not all women deserve what they get since they did nothing to earn it but what of the woman who instigates trouble, gets it, and cries rape?

Example, remember last year that Lacrosse team that was accused by a woman of raping her and then it was proven she was not raped, made the whole thing up, and ruined a bunch of lives...

This is how I see this who NO argument being twisted on itself.

No means no EXCEPT WHEN A WOMAN IS BEING A TEASE INTENTIONALLY! Then No means NOTHING at least to me no matter how people want to word the law.

I just want it clear that people who use the law to victimize others are raping people with the law! Again the Lacrosse team example!

Well... if you're aware of the possible consequences of raping a girl that's being a tease and you try to do it anyway, you're 'kinda asking for' whatever punishment they give you, right? And any derivative punishments dealt out by thug Dep's and inmates?

I'm actually asking you because what you're inferring and what I'm saying sounds as if it's gravitating towards the same system of logic.

I deleted my earlier response because I felt it was too personal but maybe it needs to be said.

Andy, your line of thinking is the same rationale my rapist gave to me when he was done. He explained this to me as he drove me back to my dorm room. I was crying and bleeding. But I guess I deserved what I got for making out with him.

Unfortunately, it's impossible to know what some men will consider being a tease vs. making out a bit and then stopping. If you are going to insist upon raping a woman after a certain point perhaps you could let her know ahead of time where exactly that line is so she doesn't accidentally cross it. Thanks, a former victim.

No still means no, even in that instance. Just because you felt teased does not mean you can take what you want anyway, no matter what she says.

I'm sorry that happened to you, Ruth.

I do have to wonder exactly what is considered a tease, too. I would also hope that a guy who cannot handle doing anything and stopping would speak up beforehand and say that in the beginning.

So, people should talk about limits before anything happens.