You kinda did make it personal, because you make an assumption of how I act that you can't back up.

First of all, right and wrong is a relative term to begin with. So long as you aren't breaking the universal law of not harming another person, which is really the only law that matters, it shouldn't matter what you do. It's your own choice, and yours alone. What's right to one person may not be to another, the same going for things wrong. We're all different, and you can't treat everyone the same in this way.

As I said before, there has to be room of individuality, and if you have no other choice in effect but to adhere to certain standards of right and wrong, there is none. This is what religion does, it strips people of that, puts them into a box.

Secondly, I never said I didn't stop doing wrong things or that I don't feel guilt for things I do wrong. When you do wrong, you intuitively know it, even if you try to ignore it. Your soul, your spirit will feel it and you can't escape that.

I was simply saying that regardless of the choices I make now, good or bad alike, they are MINE, and I am in control of them. I can choose things or not choose things for myself because I want to make that choice, not because I feel I have to. It's a world away from how I felt in religion, where I felt I HAD to do or not do certain things if I wanted to go to Heaven. It's an entirely different feeling now, and an entirely freeing one.

No, everyone's journey doesn't lead to the same place. There is one path, one route to eternal life/Heaven. The journey there on the path is what's different. Different people will have different situations, memories, ect.



Again, the path itself, the road so to speak is not personal. The things that happen thereon that journey is personal. Sin separates us from God. That is where Jesus comes in, he will forgive us of our sins, therefore we are no longer separated from God and can have a relationship with him.

You're proving my point, if we all have to in the end worship God the same way to be saved, the relationship cannot be personal. Nothing you say will make it so, it still can't be.

not all worship the same way, not all believe the same way and not all will be "saved" the same way

every individual "dates" someone else
so by ur words, none of these relationships are "personal"?

or am i misunderstandin?

My point is simply, if everyone is required to end up at the same place at the end of things, then they really can't have a personal relationship with God. Personal means it's something no one else can define but them.

If I wanted to worship God through nature for example, I could, if wanted to pray to God using a particular name, I could. These are different ways to connect to God. If those ways are in effect not available, it cannot be personal because it would become more what God expects you to be, than what you wish to be.

This is how religion works, it molds you into its' belief of what God wants, instead of letting you find God your own way on your own terms.

It'd be like if you told your kids they could have a personal relationship with you, but they all had to play football. It doesn't work. Instead of figuring out what they like, what they desire out of life, what their goals and dreams are, you set the path out for them regardless of if they like or not. It becomes more about you and what you want for them than what they might want.

Religion makes it all about God, instead of about us. And any good parent worth their salt would take great care to allow their kids to make their own paths in life, to carve their own trail unique to them. If we know enough to do that, so does God.

It becomes more about you and what you want for them than what they might want.



just regarding PARENTHOOD

IT is not SUPPOSED to be as simple as what they 'want'

their relative inexperience and lack of knowledge makes them a poor judge of how to achieve what they 'want' ,


parenthood is about leading your children in a healthy path, regardless of what their juvenile minds may impulsively think they 'want'

sometimes they will want healthy things and sometimes they wont, as a parent, its my job to guide my kids in the healthy direction and steer them away from the unhealthy and potentially detrimental choices their impulsive flesh may lead them towards,,,

Yes, guiding them is one thing, teaching them to respect themselves and respect others, that is one thing. But that's where it should end. Outright trying to tell them not to do certain things even if said things are their passions and makes them happy is just you pushing your morals onto them, and that is wrong.

Unless it is clear they need help, and need guidance, and no basing your own prejudices on right and wrong does not apply in this, as a parent you should let the person be who they are.

children can have passions for unhealthy habits

smoking, drinking, sex, , and if I can back up my 'morals' with real life logic based upon what I have observed and read

determining said passions as unhealthy is also a reason for me to guide them away from them,,,

Depends how they are using said things, as I said if it seems clear they are going down a destructive path and hurting themselves or hurting others than yeah I get it, but otherwise butt out.

Example: Someone likes to go the bar occasionally for a drink. Nothing wrong with it. Getting drunk regularly? Little different.

Someone decides to get into a swinger relationship or a gay relationship. Regardless of what you are told, if everyone involved is happy there is nothing wrong with this. Someone decides to pick up random people and sleep with them and only seeing them once? Not quite as healthy.

It all depends on the situation.

Hate to break it to you, but it is all about God and doing what God wants. It's not about us exactly in that sense. We don't obey God out of derest, or being forced. We obey God because we WANT to, because we are WILLING to obey. If one is not willing to obey, they by all means have that choice. But how then would they expect to get blessed in return? Why would God do your will, when you aren't doing his?

Some of the most monstrous people of the past, were raised in the environment you deem "right".

Like your Hitler's and most serial killers, examples.

..just saying.

Oh right, because I CLEARLY support Mass Murder. Right.........that makes a ton of sense. NOT

You couldn't be more wrong. God is not a monster who will let you die if you don't live exactly right. No God is much more loving than that, thank goodness.

\



no, but the

level of happiness = level of harmlessness

is as detrimental a philosophy for parents as any other,,,

If you're breaking a universal law of harming another than obviously that's a bad thing. And anyone who does that isn't truly happy either because we all know when we do wrong.

But if someone is truly happy with what they're doing, it is not your place to deny them that based on your own dogma.

NO ONE is ABLE to OBEY GOD ,EXCEPT GOD FIRST DRAW

him...and SAVE him!!!

FIRST !!!!



THEN AND ONY THEN IS ONE ABLE TO OBEY GOD!!!


AND NOT UNTIL THEN!!!!


CAUSE GOD LIVING IN THAT PERSON NOW, IS ACTUALLY THE ONE WHO IS

HELPING THAT PERSON TO OBEY NOW!!!



BUT....

TRYING to Obey God WITHOUT FIRST being DRAWN by God and WITHOUT

BEING SAVED FIRST, Amounts to NOTHING!!!

NOTHING but DEAD RELIGIOUS WORKS!!!

..that reply made no sense..
Cause tis not at all what I said.

I merely pointed out.
Those not "forced" or "raised" with "any" type of true, and defined morals don't always grow up all "sweet and innocent".

That's all.

Don't blame the student, blame the teacher.
Guess that's my point.

This is another thing, if God basically predestines people to heaven or hell, that being isn't loving either, nor do we have free will. Because for one, any being that would actively place someone in hell before they ever existed is EVIL, I don't care what you say that is EVIL. And two, if we can't choose and only God can, we can't have free will.

Morality is something we all know innately in ourselves, we don't need people to define it for us. It's just a matter if we listen to ourselves or not.

And again, as long as we aren't harming another person, right and wrong is relative. The only true law of the universe is not harm another. That's basically it and all that needs to be taught, respect ourselves, and others.

Why wouldn't he allow you to continue to live? How would you ever ask for forgiveness and give your life over to God if he automatically judged you to death when you first commit a sin? Where's the compassion in that?