Explain to me how you know that 'God has always been' please. And i would appreciate it if you dont waste my time by quoting scripture.

Of course i cant prove that everything needs a beginning. Maybe there are physicists out there that can, im not sure. But it MAKES SENSE that everything needs to come from somewhere. It does not make any sense that anything could always have been. And this is just one aspect of relgion that doesnt make any sense, the list of senseless stuff about religion goes on and on(almost infinitely it seems), so i can only assume i am right to believe that even a creator would need creating.

Charles Darwin removed the need for a creator in a very plausible way(which no doubt you will be able to explain is not correct although nobody else has been able to do this in a couple of hundred years). Stephen Hawking has explained how the universe could have been created from nothing in a way that is plausible to those who understand quantum physics(not me). It is something to do with the Law of Gravity, which apparantly has always existed. If you were to tell me that you believed gravity was god i wouldnt argue with you too much.

emphasis mine*
Yes, it does make sense. Postulating that something has always existed could very well explain the way science has detected that matter decays.

If something cannot come from nothing, then there has to be something that has always existed.





Stephen Hawking runs into a little trouble with his "gravity" theory.

Gravity doesn't exist without mass yet his gravity somehow created mass?

There will be an explanation to this, but i dont know what it is. Maybe someone more knowlegable than me will give the answer.

I'm sure there will be an explanantion. It will possibly be just as sensless and never-ending as the religious stuff.

Yup!

Although to give science its credit, it will be based on at least some credible facts.

I'm all about the facts.

I don't know if you saw that I had edited above, but the facts have always led me to believe there must be a creator.

Simply put, it's that "nothingness" that started everything.
That "nothingness" that exists between electrons.
That "nothingness" that comprises the greater part of your physical existense.

Ive seen it now. And your edit does make some sense to me but i dont agree that if something had to have always existed that it has to be god. Maybe its the LAW of gravity that always existed, rather than anything physical(Just a thought out loud).

Whatever it is, I don't think it was an accident...

Cowboy: If something "has always been" then there is no "beginning." Unless of course you are talking about the beginning of "mankind."


Dan99: Gravity is an interesting topic since no one has really figured it out. Perhaps it could be called the "hand of God."

I think that the existence of "nothing" is impossible, and that by default leaves "something." Therefore "something" has always been.

Infinity is represented by a circle. Even if it had a beginning you could not find it.

Its a paradox.

The beginning didn't begin at the start of mankind. Only the start of mankind started at the start of mankind. God was here before man was. God is the beginning and the end, the alpha and omega. No, God has no beginning, there was no such thing as before God, thus is why he is referred to as the beginning. And God never will die, thus is why he is the end eg., the beginning and the end.

Paradox indeed... The Unknowable Essence.

For Cowboy... The begining did not begin at mankind it nor did it begin at the moment of Creation.

It is part of the Paradox...

For in the eys of mankind God moved first upon the Abyss... Creation came after movement yet the Abyss was before creation.

Ah, sorta. God doesn't exist in a specific place eg., Heaven, Earth, or any other locaiton you wish to name. God is omnipresent. He exists outside of time and creation. Time and a set "location" only applies to us because we are not omnipresent. We can not be here and there at the same exact time, we are in one place at one time. Our minds truly can't grasp the full concept of this capability.

Time is nothing to God. Time is only made for us, for again we are not omnipresent, not omnipotent, or anything. Time only exists to us, not specifically to God. Yes time "exists" to God, for he created it. But he is not confined by that time.

I do indeeed agree that God is outside of time as we measure it.

Yet I must accord you the same honor as you did me.

Please provide proof of ascertation by mentioning the proper Quote that you used to arrive at your conclusion.

Genesis 1

1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.


It says in the beginning God created the Heaven and the Earth. The beginning here is asserted to be the beginning of God's creation. For it can't be referring to the beginning of God, for he was doing the creating in the beginning.

Here is one area showing God's omnipresent specifically. One would have to read the scriptures to find them all, they are throughout the entire scriptures.


Psalm 139:7-12
7Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?

8If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

9If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;

10Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.

11If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.

12Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.
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And even further, is something/someone is eternal, why would time have any restraint on them? It is our bodies that need the rest from the day's work, not specifically our spiritual self. So therefore God would need no sleep or anything of such for he is not restrained by the flesh we are held by. So with that said, God wouldn't need to do this or that by a certain time to do this other thing. He would do whatever he wishes till he chooses to do another, thus Time holds no power over God.

Many quotes yet no answer to the question.

Where does it say that God is outside of time.

Romans 16:26
26But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith
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Other verses can be shown as well. Reason for this verse is "everlasting God". If one is "everlasting", it has no beginning and no end, thus outside of time. Time has a start and stop.. day/night, summer/winter, and so forth.