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| Topic: Recovery from religion... | |
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Here's what I think it is... They see someone whom they think is brainwashed. So they want to brainwash them too. Simple, everyone is trying to control everyone else... Not really. Or rather, I disagree from that viewpoint. Based on discussions I've had with friends who are atheists, the concept of actually getting someone to ditch theism is less of brainwashing someone and more as freeing the person from prior brainwashing. It's like taking away the fake world in the Matrix and showing what actually is or letting a kid know there's no Santa Claus. After all, many people who are atheists weren't convinced by others... they arrived at it through their own reasoning. They found that they didn't believe in the things they may or may not have once believed in or been taught. this can be said on both sides the concept of actually getting someone to ditch faithlessness is less of brainwashing and more as FREEING a person from prior brainwashing Its like giving a kid hope for his future as an adult, and showing them that life progresses and how great it can be to progress with it and be a healthy adult,,,, many people who are christian arriived at through their own reasoning too,,,they found that the things they once believed or were taught omitted quite a bit,,,, The entire problem with this is, is that people have grown accustomed to this idea that religion is the only place God is, that God can't be found outside of a church or book like it can be inside of one. It's just not the case, God does NOT need religion to exist, it just is. You can find God without ever believing the Bible, or stepping foot in a church, it's just not necessary, and in fact can in ways INHIBIT your relationship to God and your own spiritual growth. This notion that God expects certain conduct of us is totally and completely false. God just wishes us to be happy. How we may achieve that happiness is up to each individual person, but that is all it wants. The rest is man trying to control. Really they need religion more than we do, because it's how they hold their power. If they can get people to believe God demands this or that, then they have you right in the palm of their hands. We don't need it, but for them to keep control they need us. I think we are reaching a point where people are starting to realize that, which is why religion in ways doesn't hold as much power as it once did. People are growing up, and though some are fighting this, they are fighting a losing battle in the end. Like it or not, things are changing, and I think the more free we become the better. Having said all that, if you wanna believe certain things, fine, that is a personal choice. The problem is, religious never leave it at that, they push their doctrine onto everyone else, and put themselves above others in effect, believing they are the only ones living right and anyone who believes different is wrong or misguided. It is spiritual arrogance. The idea that because a book tells you something is wrong, it must be so is absurd. We need to let go of this idea that because someone believes different they are wrong because of what a preacher says, it's just not true. They are just them. There is no facts of it being stolen from any other civilization. You nor I nor anyone else still walking the face of this Earth was there. You can not prove it was stolen, just as I can not prove it wasn't. That's why the scriptures stress so much about faith. One can not prove Christianity to be true, but likewise no one can prove Christianity to not be true. Faith plays a huge role in it on either side of the coin. What exactly are you talking about? Christianity has been the same since the dawn of man. Yes we had a fulfillment of one covenant and recieved another. But none the less the first covenant prophecied that happening. So thus nothing "changed", only moved forward to it's next step. Which again was prophesied to happen in the first step. And it probably wasn't called "Christianity" at first, as in like in the time of the first covenant. For there was no "Christ" until Jesus physically came into the picture in the flesh. "Christ" the root of Christianity eg., Jesus Chrst is not a name. Christ is not Jesus' last name. Christ - any expected deliverer (synonym messiah) Messiah - a zealous leader of some cause or project. - any expected deliverer |
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Here's what I think it is... They see someone whom they think is brainwashed. So they want to brainwash them too. Simple, everyone is trying to control everyone else... Not really. Or rather, I disagree from that viewpoint. Based on discussions I've had with friends who are atheists, the concept of actually getting someone to ditch theism is less of brainwashing someone and more as freeing the person from prior brainwashing. It's like taking away the fake world in the Matrix and showing what actually is or letting a kid know there's no Santa Claus. After all, many people who are atheists weren't convinced by others... they arrived at it through their own reasoning. They found that they didn't believe in the things they may or may not have once believed in or been taught. this can be said on both sides the concept of actually getting someone to ditch faithlessness is less of brainwashing and more as FREEING a person from prior brainwashing Its like giving a kid hope for his future as an adult, and showing them that life progresses and how great it can be to progress with it and be a healthy adult,,,, many people who are christian arriived at through their own reasoning too,,,they found that the things they once believed or were taught omitted quite a bit,,,, The entire problem with this is, is that people have grown accustomed to this idea that religion is the only place God is, that God can't be found outside of a church or book like it can be inside of one. It's just not the case, God does NOT need religion to exist, it just is. You can find God without ever believing the Bible, or stepping foot in a church, it's just not necessary, and in fact can in ways INHIBIT your relationship to God and your own spiritual growth. This notion that God expects certain conduct of us is totally and completely false. God just wishes us to be happy. How we may achieve that happiness is up to each individual person, but that is all it wants. The rest is man trying to control. Really they need religion more than we do, because it's how they hold their power. If they can get people to believe God demands this or that, then they have you right in the palm of their hands. We don't need it, but for them to keep control they need us. I think we are reaching a point where people are starting to realize that, which is why religion in ways doesn't hold as much power as it once did. People are growing up, and though some are fighting this, they are fighting a losing battle in the end. Like it or not, things are changing, and I think the more free we become the better. Having said all that, if you wanna believe certain things, fine, that is a personal choice. The problem is, religious never leave it at that, they push their doctrine onto everyone else, and put themselves above others in effect, believing they are the only ones living right and anyone who believes different is wrong or misguided. It is spiritual arrogance. The idea that because a book tells you something is wrong, it must be so is absurd. We need to let go of this idea that because someone believes different they are wrong because of what a preacher says, it's just not true. They are just them. "religious never leave it at that, they push their doctrine onto everyone else, and put themselves above others in effect, believing they are the only ones living right and anyone who believes different is wrong or misguided. It is spiritual arrogance. The idea that because a book tells you something is wrong, it must be so is absurd. We need to let go of this idea that because someone believes different they are wrong because of what a preacher says, it's just not true. They are just them. " replace religious with non religious replace 'it must be wrong' with 'it cant be right' replace 'of what a preacher says' with 'because they havent tangibly felt or seen or heard it' and this statement could ring true for either 'side' Here's the difference, do WE tell you that there's one path only and if you're not on it you're damned? No. But religious surely do. Not the same thing at all. One uses coercive tactics to keep followers in the line, the other tells only as a means to free, but there's no pressure on your soul to make the choice. Big difference. |
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Edited by
RavenousSin
on
Thu 03/29/12 06:13 PM
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Here's what I think it is... They see someone whom they think is brainwashed. So they want to brainwash them too. Simple, everyone is trying to control everyone else... Not really. Or rather, I disagree from that viewpoint. Based on discussions I've had with friends who are atheists, the concept of actually getting someone to ditch theism is less of brainwashing someone and more as freeing the person from prior brainwashing. It's like taking away the fake world in the Matrix and showing what actually is or letting a kid know there's no Santa Claus. After all, many people who are atheists weren't convinced by others... they arrived at it through their own reasoning. They found that they didn't believe in the things they may or may not have once believed in or been taught. this can be said on both sides the concept of actually getting someone to ditch faithlessness is less of brainwashing and more as FREEING a person from prior brainwashing Its like giving a kid hope for his future as an adult, and showing them that life progresses and how great it can be to progress with it and be a healthy adult,,,, many people who are christian arriived at through their own reasoning too,,,they found that the things they once believed or were taught omitted quite a bit,,,, I'm not getting the analogy to giving a kid hope for his future. Elaborate. Faithlessness (in the religious sense) isn't exactly a trait to be ditched... you're building from the ground up to make a believer, not taking anything away... except maybe taking away certain views on reality, but that's more of a byproduct. |
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"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
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Here's what I think it is... They see someone whom they think is brainwashed. So they want to brainwash them too. Simple, everyone is trying to control everyone else... Not really. Or rather, I disagree from that viewpoint. Based on discussions I've had with friends who are atheists, the concept of actually getting someone to ditch theism is less of brainwashing someone and more as freeing the person from prior brainwashing. It's like taking away the fake world in the Matrix and showing what actually is or letting a kid know there's no Santa Claus. After all, many people who are atheists weren't convinced by others... they arrived at it through their own reasoning. They found that they didn't believe in the things they may or may not have once believed in or been taught. this can be said on both sides the concept of actually getting someone to ditch faithlessness is less of brainwashing and more as FREEING a person from prior brainwashing Its like giving a kid hope for his future as an adult, and showing them that life progresses and how great it can be to progress with it and be a healthy adult,,,, many people who are christian arriived at through their own reasoning too,,,they found that the things they once believed or were taught omitted quite a bit,,,, The entire problem with this is, is that people have grown accustomed to this idea that religion is the only place God is, that God can't be found outside of a church or book like it can be inside of one. It's just not the case, God does NOT need religion to exist, it just is. You can find God without ever believing the Bible, or stepping foot in a church, it's just not necessary, and in fact can in ways INHIBIT your relationship to God and your own spiritual growth. This notion that God expects certain conduct of us is totally and completely false. God just wishes us to be happy. How we may achieve that happiness is up to each individual person, but that is all it wants. The rest is man trying to control. Really they need religion more than we do, because it's how they hold their power. If they can get people to believe God demands this or that, then they have you right in the palm of their hands. We don't need it, but for them to keep control they need us. I think we are reaching a point where people are starting to realize that, which is why religion in ways doesn't hold as much power as it once did. People are growing up, and though some are fighting this, they are fighting a losing battle in the end. Like it or not, things are changing, and I think the more free we become the better. Having said all that, if you wanna believe certain things, fine, that is a personal choice. The problem is, religious never leave it at that, they push their doctrine onto everyone else, and put themselves above others in effect, believing they are the only ones living right and anyone who believes different is wrong or misguided. It is spiritual arrogance. The idea that because a book tells you something is wrong, it must be so is absurd. We need to let go of this idea that because someone believes different they are wrong because of what a preacher says, it's just not true. They are just them. "religious never leave it at that, they push their doctrine onto everyone else, and put themselves above others in effect, believing they are the only ones living right and anyone who believes different is wrong or misguided. It is spiritual arrogance. The idea that because a book tells you something is wrong, it must be so is absurd. We need to let go of this idea that because someone believes different they are wrong because of what a preacher says, it's just not true. They are just them. " replace religious with non religious replace 'it must be wrong' with 'it cant be right' replace 'of what a preacher says' with 'because they havent tangibly felt or seen or heard it' and this statement could ring true for either 'side' Here's the difference, do WE tell you that there's one path only and if you're not on it you're damned? No. But religious surely do. Not the same thing at all. One uses coercive tactics to keep followers in the line, the other tells only as a means to free, but there's no pressure on your soul to make the choice. Big difference. no, you tell us that the path doesnt matter and all paths lead to the exact same destination. Which doesnt seem logical to some of us. but thats not the point,,,the point was BELIEVERS,, whether their belief is in the Bible or not the bible, believe their belief is the RIGHT belief. IF they didnt think their belief was the 'right' belief, I doubt those believers would bother arguing about why others beliefs were 'wrong'. believers think their belief is the 'healthy; one, or they wouldnt spend time telling other believers their belief is 'unhealthy' believers think their belief gives them life (whether here on earth, by just being 'free' in their mortal life and not believing there is a 'right' way written in any book, or in an afterlife which they have followed the right directions to reach...) and that others beliefs 'traps' them (either to not really living their mortal life, or to an afterlife of damnation) its really not that different at all , in my opinion,,,, |
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We don't use use God as basically a fear tactic saying if you don't things exactly right you'll burn or you'll be extinguished eternally. Religious do, that's the difference.
Do we think your lives may be better if you let go of some of the ideas you have? Yes. But do we believe God will punish you if you don't? No. Therein lies the separation. |
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We don't use use God as basically a fear tactic saying if you don't things exactly right you'll burn or you'll be extinguished eternally. Religious do, that's the difference. Do we think your lives may be better if you let go of some of the ideas you have? Yes. But do we believe God will punish you if you don't? No. Therein lies the separation. I dont use God as a fear tactic either, all religious cant be painted with one brush. So what if atheists dont use God as their fear of choice? ,, its not like there arent atheists guilty of using other fear tactics on people fear of stigmatism, being labeled bigoted, fear of expressing or practicing what is important to them, far of having to 'conform, or be an outcast,fear of impending doom from other humans, fear of political conspiracies, fear of losing 'freedom',,etc,,, |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Thu 03/29/12 09:23 PM
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We don't use use God as basically a fear tactic saying if you don't things exactly right you'll burn or you'll be extinguished eternally. Religious do, that's the difference. Do we think your lives may be better if you let go of some of the ideas you have? Yes. But do we believe God will punish you if you don't? No. Therein lies the separation. I dont use God as a fear tactic either, all religious cant be painted with one brush. So what if atheists dont use God as their fear of choice? ,, its not like there arent atheists guilty of using other fear tactics on people fear of stigmatism, being labeled bigoted, fear of expressing or practicing what is important to them, far of having to 'conform, or be an outcast,fear of impending doom from other humans, fear of political conspiracies, fear of losing 'freedom',,etc,,, Well maybe sometimes you ought to take the criticisms to heart. Instead of looking at it strictly from your particularly colored glasses, maybe look outside it for once. Maybe then you'd understand why we are so vehemantly opposed to what you believe or at the least how you express that. And before you even try to say I should do the same, save it. I did this a long time ago, and it's exactly why I left religion behind, and why others left it as well. Just because you have believed something all your life, doesn't mean it is necessarily true. Assuming in effect you know all there is to know is a really bad assumption. When you stop learning, you stop growing. And religion can stunt one's growth because it discourages any ideas that may go against it, and closes the mind. Having said all that, if you wanna believe something you can, but when you start to judge others in how they are living based on YOUR belief, (ie: Homosexuality), don't be surprised when people are gonna come against you. You cross a line at that point. If it works for you, fine, but just because others subscribe to different beliefs doesn't make them wrong, and doesn't make it right for you to tell them they are wrong just because of what YOU believe. To love is to accept someone as they are, for who they are, not try to mold them into what you want them to be. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Thu 03/29/12 09:33 PM
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We don't use use God as basically a fear tactic saying if you don't things exactly right you'll burn or you'll be extinguished eternally. Religious do, that's the difference. Do we think your lives may be better if you let go of some of the ideas you have? Yes. But do we believe God will punish you if you don't? No. Therein lies the separation. I dont use God as a fear tactic either, all religious cant be painted with one brush. So what if atheists dont use God as their fear of choice? ,, its not like there arent atheists guilty of using other fear tactics on people fear of stigmatism, being labeled bigoted, fear of expressing or practicing what is important to them, far of having to 'conform, or be an outcast,fear of impending doom from other humans, fear of political conspiracies, fear of losing 'freedom',,etc,,, Well maybe sometimes you ought to take the criticisms to heart. Instead of looking at it strictly from your particularly colored glasses, maybe look outside it for once. Maybe then you'd understand why we are so vehemantly opposed to what you believe or at the least how you express that. And before you even try to say I should do the same, save it. I did this a long time ago, and it's exactly why I left religion behind, and why others left it as well. Just because you have believed something all your life, doesn't mean it is necessarily true. Assuming in effect you know all there is to know is a really bad assumption. When you stop learning, you stop growing. And religion can stunt one's growth because it discourages any ideas that may go against it, and closes the mind. Having said all that, if you wanna believe something you can, but when you start to judge others in how they are living based on YOUR belief, (ie: Homosexuality), don't be surprised when people are gonna come against you. You cross a line at that point. If it works for you, fine, but just because others subscribe to different beliefs doesn't make them wrong, and doesn't make it right for you to tell them they are wrong just because of what YOU believe. To love is to accept someone as they are, for who they are, not try to mold them into what you want them to be. really? all this is about having an opinion that people are doing the wrong thing? thats human, thats not religious For the record, I dont judge 'people'. I do believe people bake right and wrong choices and I Think anyone that claims they dont believe that as well is lying. Having an opinion is a human rality and a human right and atheists and religious are no less human in that regard. Do you believe it is wrong for an adult male to take a pre pubescent wife? do you have any business saying they are 'wrong', because its what you believe? what makes your belief so much better than anyone elses? ,,,,,,see where Im going,,,? |
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We don't use use God as basically a fear tactic saying if you don't things exactly right you'll burn or you'll be extinguished eternally. Religious do, that's the difference. Do we think your lives may be better if you let go of some of the ideas you have? Yes. But do we believe God will punish you if you don't? No. Therein lies the separation. I dont use God as a fear tactic either, all religious cant be painted with one brush. So what if atheists dont use God as their fear of choice? ,, its not like there arent atheists guilty of using other fear tactics on people fear of stigmatism, being labeled bigoted, fear of expressing or practicing what is important to them, far of having to 'conform, or be an outcast,fear of impending doom from other humans, fear of political conspiracies, fear of losing 'freedom',,etc,,, Well maybe sometimes you ought to take the criticisms to heart. Instead of looking at it strictly from your particularly colored glasses, maybe look outside it for once. Maybe then you'd understand why we are so vehemantly opposed to what you believe or at the least how you express that. And before you even try to say I should do the same, save it. I did this a long time ago, and it's exactly why I left religion behind, and why others left it as well. Just because you have believed something all your life, doesn't mean it is necessarily true. Assuming in effect you know all there is to know is a really bad assumption. When you stop learning, you stop growing. And religion can stunt one's growth because it discourages any ideas that may go against it, and closes the mind. Having said all that, if you wanna believe something you can, but when you start to judge others in how they are living based on YOUR belief, (ie: Homosexuality), don't be surprised when people are gonna come against you. You cross a line at that point. If it works for you, fine, but just because others subscribe to different beliefs doesn't make them wrong, and doesn't make it right for you to tell them they are wrong just because of what YOU believe. To love is to accept someone as they are, for who they are, not try to mold them into what you want them to be. Having said all that, if you wanna believe something you can, but when you start to judge others in how they are living based on YOUR belief, (ie: Homosexuality), don't be surprised when people are gonna come against you. A "Christian" or well a follower of Jesus would not do as you mention. Doesn't matter if the person is Homosexual, bisexual, tall, short, fat, or ugly, we are not to judge another. We are to treat everyone with the same respect, love, caring, ect. There is no "greater then thou art" with a true follower of Jesus. |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Thu 03/29/12 11:51 PM
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We don't use use God as basically a fear tactic saying if you don't things exactly right you'll burn or you'll be extinguished eternally. Religious do, that's the difference. Do we think your lives may be better if you let go of some of the ideas you have? Yes. But do we believe God will punish you if you don't? No. Therein lies the separation. I dont use God as a fear tactic either, all religious cant be painted with one brush. So what if atheists dont use God as their fear of choice? ,, its not like there arent atheists guilty of using other fear tactics on people fear of stigmatism, being labeled bigoted, fear of expressing or practicing what is important to them, far of having to 'conform, or be an outcast,fear of impending doom from other humans, fear of political conspiracies, fear of losing 'freedom',,etc,,, Well maybe sometimes you ought to take the criticisms to heart. Instead of looking at it strictly from your particularly colored glasses, maybe look outside it for once. Maybe then you'd understand why we are so vehemantly opposed to what you believe or at the least how you express that. And before you even try to say I should do the same, save it. I did this a long time ago, and it's exactly why I left religion behind, and why others left it as well. Just because you have believed something all your life, doesn't mean it is necessarily true. Assuming in effect you know all there is to know is a really bad assumption. When you stop learning, you stop growing. And religion can stunt one's growth because it discourages any ideas that may go against it, and closes the mind. Having said all that, if you wanna believe something you can, but when you start to judge others in how they are living based on YOUR belief, (ie: Homosexuality), don't be surprised when people are gonna come against you. You cross a line at that point. If it works for you, fine, but just because others subscribe to different beliefs doesn't make them wrong, and doesn't make it right for you to tell them they are wrong just because of what YOU believe. To love is to accept someone as they are, for who they are, not try to mold them into what you want them to be. really? all this is about having an opinion that people are doing the wrong thing? thats human, thats not religious For the record, I dont judge 'people'. I do believe people bake right and wrong choices and I Think anyone that claims they dont believe that as well is lying. Having an opinion is a human rality and a human right and atheists and religious are no less human in that regard. Do you believe it is wrong for an adult male to take a pre pubescent wife? do you have any business saying they are 'wrong', because its what you believe? what makes your belief so much better than anyone elses? ,,,,,,see where Im going,,,? There are things clearly wrong to ALL, regardless of religious background or not. They are universal rights and wrongs. If only YOU have the problem, you may wanna think about why. Check yourself first, if only you have the problem chances are it's your issue NOT theirs. Learn the difference. And please keep the extremes out of this, they have no basis in reality in this discussion. As I said, there are universal right and wrongs, and we ALL know this. |
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We don't use use God as basically a fear tactic saying if you don't things exactly right you'll burn or you'll be extinguished eternally. Religious do, that's the difference. Do we think your lives may be better if you let go of some of the ideas you have? Yes. But do we believe God will punish you if you don't? No. Therein lies the separation. I dont use God as a fear tactic either, all religious cant be painted with one brush. So what if atheists dont use God as their fear of choice? ,, its not like there arent atheists guilty of using other fear tactics on people fear of stigmatism, being labeled bigoted, fear of expressing or practicing what is important to them, far of having to 'conform, or be an outcast,fear of impending doom from other humans, fear of political conspiracies, fear of losing 'freedom',,etc,,, Well maybe sometimes you ought to take the criticisms to heart. Instead of looking at it strictly from your particularly colored glasses, maybe look outside it for once. Maybe then you'd understand why we are so vehemantly opposed to what you believe or at the least how you express that. And before you even try to say I should do the same, save it. I did this a long time ago, and it's exactly why I left religion behind, and why others left it as well. Just because you have believed something all your life, doesn't mean it is necessarily true. Assuming in effect you know all there is to know is a really bad assumption. When you stop learning, you stop growing. And religion can stunt one's growth because it discourages any ideas that may go against it, and closes the mind. Having said all that, if you wanna believe something you can, but when you start to judge others in how they are living based on YOUR belief, (ie: Homosexuality), don't be surprised when people are gonna come against you. You cross a line at that point. If it works for you, fine, but just because others subscribe to different beliefs doesn't make them wrong, and doesn't make it right for you to tell them they are wrong just because of what YOU believe. To love is to accept someone as they are, for who they are, not try to mold them into what you want them to be. Having said all that, if you wanna believe something you can, but when you start to judge others in how they are living based on YOUR belief, (ie: Homosexuality), don't be surprised when people are gonna come against you. A "Christian" or well a follower of Jesus would not do as you mention. Doesn't matter if the person is Homosexual, bisexual, tall, short, fat, or ugly, we are not to judge another. We are to treat everyone with the same respect, love, caring, ect. There is no "greater then thou art" with a true follower of Jesus. By telling them to deny who they are, you judge them. Can't escape that. |
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We don't use use God as basically a fear tactic saying if you don't things exactly right you'll burn or you'll be extinguished eternally. Religious do, that's the difference. Do we think your lives may be better if you let go of some of the ideas you have? Yes. But do we believe God will punish you if you don't? No. Therein lies the separation. I dont use God as a fear tactic either, all religious cant be painted with one brush. So what if atheists dont use God as their fear of choice? ,, its not like there arent atheists guilty of using other fear tactics on people fear of stigmatism, being labeled bigoted, fear of expressing or practicing what is important to them, far of having to 'conform, or be an outcast,fear of impending doom from other humans, fear of political conspiracies, fear of losing 'freedom',,etc,,, Well maybe sometimes you ought to take the criticisms to heart. Instead of looking at it strictly from your particularly colored glasses, maybe look outside it for once. Maybe then you'd understand why we are so vehemantly opposed to what you believe or at the least how you express that. And before you even try to say I should do the same, save it. I did this a long time ago, and it's exactly why I left religion behind, and why others left it as well. Just because you have believed something all your life, doesn't mean it is necessarily true. Assuming in effect you know all there is to know is a really bad assumption. When you stop learning, you stop growing. And religion can stunt one's growth because it discourages any ideas that may go against it, and closes the mind. Having said all that, if you wanna believe something you can, but when you start to judge others in how they are living based on YOUR belief, (ie: Homosexuality), don't be surprised when people are gonna come against you. You cross a line at that point. If it works for you, fine, but just because others subscribe to different beliefs doesn't make them wrong, and doesn't make it right for you to tell them they are wrong just because of what YOU believe. To love is to accept someone as they are, for who they are, not try to mold them into what you want them to be. really? all this is about having an opinion that people are doing the wrong thing? thats human, thats not religious For the record, I dont judge 'people'. I do believe people bake right and wrong choices and I Think anyone that claims they dont believe that as well is lying. Having an opinion is a human rality and a human right and atheists and religious are no less human in that regard. Do you believe it is wrong for an adult male to take a pre pubescent wife? do you have any business saying they are 'wrong', because its what you believe? what makes your belief so much better than anyone elses? ,,,,,,see where Im going,,,? There are things clearly wrong to ALL, regardless of religious background or not. They are universal rights and wrongs. If only YOU have the problem, you may wanna think about why. Check yourself first, if only you have the problem chances are it's your issue NOT theirs. Learn the difference. And please keep the extremes out of this, they have no basis in reality in this discussion. As I said, there are universal right and wrongs, and we ALL know this. its only 'extreme' because it makes too much sense to face it is just as REAL for people to oppose a pubescent girl taken as a wife, as it is for people to oppose same sex sex.... and that doesnt mean they feel they are better or worse than those involved (although in both cases, those judging do sometimes feel as if they are better or their morals are the morals that are 'universal') |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Fri 03/30/12 12:00 AM
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We don't use use God as basically a fear tactic saying if you don't things exactly right you'll burn or you'll be extinguished eternally. Religious do, that's the difference. Do we think your lives may be better if you let go of some of the ideas you have? Yes. But do we believe God will punish you if you don't? No. Therein lies the separation. I dont use God as a fear tactic either, all religious cant be painted with one brush. So what if atheists dont use God as their fear of choice? ,, its not like there arent atheists guilty of using other fear tactics on people fear of stigmatism, being labeled bigoted, fear of expressing or practicing what is important to them, far of having to 'conform, or be an outcast,fear of impending doom from other humans, fear of political conspiracies, fear of losing 'freedom',,etc,,, Well maybe sometimes you ought to take the criticisms to heart. Instead of looking at it strictly from your particularly colored glasses, maybe look outside it for once. Maybe then you'd understand why we are so vehemantly opposed to what you believe or at the least how you express that. And before you even try to say I should do the same, save it. I did this a long time ago, and it's exactly why I left religion behind, and why others left it as well. Just because you have believed something all your life, doesn't mean it is necessarily true. Assuming in effect you know all there is to know is a really bad assumption. When you stop learning, you stop growing. And religion can stunt one's growth because it discourages any ideas that may go against it, and closes the mind. Having said all that, if you wanna believe something you can, but when you start to judge others in how they are living based on YOUR belief, (ie: Homosexuality), don't be surprised when people are gonna come against you. You cross a line at that point. If it works for you, fine, but just because others subscribe to different beliefs doesn't make them wrong, and doesn't make it right for you to tell them they are wrong just because of what YOU believe. To love is to accept someone as they are, for who they are, not try to mold them into what you want them to be. Having said all that, if you wanna believe something you can, but when you start to judge others in how they are living based on YOUR belief, (ie: Homosexuality), don't be surprised when people are gonna come against you. A "Christian" or well a follower of Jesus would not do as you mention. Doesn't matter if the person is Homosexual, bisexual, tall, short, fat, or ugly, we are not to judge another. We are to treat everyone with the same respect, love, caring, ect. There is no "greater then thou art" with a true follower of Jesus. By telling them to deny who they are, you judge them. Can't escape that. we are who we decide to be,,,there is nothing in stone that keeps us from becoming whoever we 'wish' to be,,,, there are influences, but no truly 'universal' equation that decides it for us,,, |
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Kleisto, back off on msharmony a bit. She hasn't been rude or unkind and it gets hard to tell how much you're actually basing on her own posting and how much you're basing on OTHER people she is not affiliated with.
Like she said, you can't brush everyone with the same stroke. After all, I wouldn't want to be grouped with all the other atheists who look down on the religious or act with superiority. Anyway, I'm leaving this all with agreeing to disagree and just do what's best for everyone regardless of religious belief or lack thereof: peace. |
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agreeing to disagree is one of my favorite pasttimes,,,
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agreeing to disagree is one of my favorite pasttimes,,,
And then, there was peace... 
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Kleisto, back off on msharmony a bit. If she's gonna make ridiculous arguments, I'm gonna call her on them. I don't care who likes it, I'm going to say what I think. |
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We don't use use God as basically a fear tactic saying if you don't things exactly right you'll burn or you'll be extinguished eternally. Religious do, that's the difference. Do we think your lives may be better if you let go of some of the ideas you have? Yes. But do we believe God will punish you if you don't? No. Therein lies the separation. I dont use God as a fear tactic either, all religious cant be painted with one brush. So what if atheists dont use God as their fear of choice? ,, its not like there arent atheists guilty of using other fear tactics on people fear of stigmatism, being labeled bigoted, fear of expressing or practicing what is important to them, far of having to 'conform, or be an outcast,fear of impending doom from other humans, fear of political conspiracies, fear of losing 'freedom',,etc,,, Well maybe sometimes you ought to take the criticisms to heart. Instead of looking at it strictly from your particularly colored glasses, maybe look outside it for once. Maybe then you'd understand why we are so vehemantly opposed to what you believe or at the least how you express that. And before you even try to say I should do the same, save it. I did this a long time ago, and it's exactly why I left religion behind, and why others left it as well. Just because you have believed something all your life, doesn't mean it is necessarily true. Assuming in effect you know all there is to know is a really bad assumption. When you stop learning, you stop growing. And religion can stunt one's growth because it discourages any ideas that may go against it, and closes the mind. Having said all that, if you wanna believe something you can, but when you start to judge others in how they are living based on YOUR belief, (ie: Homosexuality), don't be surprised when people are gonna come against you. You cross a line at that point. If it works for you, fine, but just because others subscribe to different beliefs doesn't make them wrong, and doesn't make it right for you to tell them they are wrong just because of what YOU believe. To love is to accept someone as they are, for who they are, not try to mold them into what you want them to be. really? all this is about having an opinion that people are doing the wrong thing? thats human, thats not religious For the record, I dont judge 'people'. I do believe people bake right and wrong choices and I Think anyone that claims they dont believe that as well is lying. Having an opinion is a human rality and a human right and atheists and religious are no less human in that regard. Do you believe it is wrong for an adult male to take a pre pubescent wife? do you have any business saying they are 'wrong', because its what you believe? what makes your belief so much better than anyone elses? ,,,,,,see where Im going,,,? There are things clearly wrong to ALL, regardless of religious background or not. They are universal rights and wrongs. If only YOU have the problem, you may wanna think about why. Check yourself first, if only you have the problem chances are it's your issue NOT theirs. Learn the difference. And please keep the extremes out of this, they have no basis in reality in this discussion. As I said, there are universal right and wrongs, and we ALL know this. its only 'extreme' because it makes too much sense to face it is just as REAL for people to oppose a pubescent girl taken as a wife, as it is for people to oppose same sex sex.... Difference is one is between consenting ADULTS, I'll say it again CONSENTING ADULTS. So trying to compare something involving kids with that?? Yeah that is EXTREME, and has nothing to do with the other. Anyone with half a brain would know that when you bring kids into it, generally speaking that is WRONG. So comparing that to something again between ADULTS has no basis in reality. |
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We don't use use God as basically a fear tactic saying if you don't things exactly right you'll burn or you'll be extinguished eternally. Religious do, that's the difference. Do we think your lives may be better if you let go of some of the ideas you have? Yes. But do we believe God will punish you if you don't? No. Therein lies the separation. I dont use God as a fear tactic either, all religious cant be painted with one brush. So what if atheists dont use God as their fear of choice? ,, its not like there arent atheists guilty of using other fear tactics on people fear of stigmatism, being labeled bigoted, fear of expressing or practicing what is important to them, far of having to 'conform, or be an outcast,fear of impending doom from other humans, fear of political conspiracies, fear of losing 'freedom',,etc,,, Well maybe sometimes you ought to take the criticisms to heart. Instead of looking at it strictly from your particularly colored glasses, maybe look outside it for once. Maybe then you'd understand why we are so vehemantly opposed to what you believe or at the least how you express that. And before you even try to say I should do the same, save it. I did this a long time ago, and it's exactly why I left religion behind, and why others left it as well. Just because you have believed something all your life, doesn't mean it is necessarily true. Assuming in effect you know all there is to know is a really bad assumption. When you stop learning, you stop growing. And religion can stunt one's growth because it discourages any ideas that may go against it, and closes the mind. Having said all that, if you wanna believe something you can, but when you start to judge others in how they are living based on YOUR belief, (ie: Homosexuality), don't be surprised when people are gonna come against you. You cross a line at that point. If it works for you, fine, but just because others subscribe to different beliefs doesn't make them wrong, and doesn't make it right for you to tell them they are wrong just because of what YOU believe. To love is to accept someone as they are, for who they are, not try to mold them into what you want them to be. Having said all that, if you wanna believe something you can, but when you start to judge others in how they are living based on YOUR belief, (ie: Homosexuality), don't be surprised when people are gonna come against you. A "Christian" or well a follower of Jesus would not do as you mention. Doesn't matter if the person is Homosexual, bisexual, tall, short, fat, or ugly, we are not to judge another. We are to treat everyone with the same respect, love, caring, ect. There is no "greater then thou art" with a true follower of Jesus. By telling them to deny who they are, you judge them. Can't escape that. we are who we decide to be,,,there is nothing in stone that keeps us from becoming whoever we 'wish' to be,,,, there are influences, but no truly 'universal' equation that decides it for us,,, This is true, but this isn't my point. By telling them that what they feel is wrong, even when they are happy and at peace with themselves as that person, you are still judging them. Sometimes you have to learn to mind your own business. Unless it's clear it's needed, and not just to you either, let them be who they are. |
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