I stand corrected

there is clear detail in terms of how punishment will be handled

but not as clear as to whether it is condoned or disapproved

You are right. Yet that is corrected by the Advent of Christ...

and a Foundation Stone he placed upon the Earth for the Day we build the Temple of God.

The Rock of his Church.

Peter.

By that Rock is the Mother Immaculate, and the Child the very essence of Innocence.

I wonder what the long term goals of the pro life movement really are?

Do they envision a world with 30 Billions people on it were we continue to restrict abortions unless the mother is in some kind of danger?

What is the long vision of this movement that seeks to restrict reproductive rights?

Look.

We have eyes that see beyond the closest stars.

If the seed is small for the 'child' it contains.

Life springs forth.

When the Sun of Reality shines upon us the Earth is not all it illuminates.

Is Gods garden not large indeed?

When one understands that the Earth is not the center of the Universe

..............................FOR ALL IN THE RELIGION FORUM................................

...................................HAPPY VALENTINE'S DAY !!!......................................

Happy Valentines Day!!

Are you saying with all of this eye candy metaphor that humanity from the pro life stand point should populate other worlds?

Somehow I am not convinced that is actually the end goals of the pro life movement. Is there any evidence this movement supports missions to mars or any other accessible planets?

Or is this just a way to let the population of earth bust at the seems of food production and environmental support and THEN do something about it?

Seems to me we need to understand the long term ramifications of any given legislation and all to often we are only concerned with each election cycle.

o.o

I flippin' hope not.

From my understanding..
..some planets are totally beyond livable.

Like, in't it one of those large ringed planets that once you enter their gravitational field.. you'll get sucked straight down into the core of the planet?

..and that's just an example.

I think the only 'end-game' pro-lifers have is:

That, in the end, every life, whether in the fetus or till rummaging around as sperm; are given the opportunity to live for themselves and experience life.

Wanted or not.

Ok imagine a world managed responsibly with reproductive rights in place that allow for abortions.
Now imagine a world where every sperm that meets an egg becomes a person regardless of the environment or the societal conflicts it could cause.

Which one do you think will end up supporting more people?

Id say the first one becuase when a proper equilibrium is struck you can better sustain the environment for much long periods of time allowing far more people to experience life than would have otherwise AND the standard of living would have been much greater for each person while they did that experiencing.

Its my opinion that cannot happen without strong reproductive rights.

..hey Mr. Club.

You asked, I answered.

I'm not even going to try and attempt to proclaim the validity of my said claim when that claim itself is not my own.

It was merely my hypothesis.

its a matter of opinion, precisely because of what we value, thats kind of at the core of the issue

some would rather live more YEARS, even if they are living in illness or unhealthy or selfish lifestyles

some would rather have fewer YEARS that are free from illness, or unhealthy or selfish lifestyles

the earth will sustain who it will sustain, regardless
people will be born and die everyday , regardless

we could keep taking lives to ensure more generations after us
or we can let the future generations have the time they are able to have while valuing the current ones as well,,,

..are one of you suggesting..

..that more lives, via, more births due to lack of abortion idea.

..ultimately means, that there will be more freakish accidents, murders, etc as an impending result of the actual rise in population?

...if so, that's interesting.

My thoughts exactly.

It is possible.

That large ringed planet provides energy to its moons.

Life would at first be harsh.

But with tools does man live.

and by tools can he also do this.

Where is energy, comes also life (of some form).

Where life exists.

Man can also.

We have subdued the Earth.

God allways has a next step.

Man chooses how high.

God will be there.

Like a Good Father

To watch us grow

Aye...

In the same way as 300 million have among them 40 million that are improvished.

In reality man has allways had this.

This is why Allah exorts is to care for the poor and improvished.

It makes less of them.

But there will allways be some with us.

So we may grow.

In spirit.

Two things Adventure.

One. The moon of the ringed planet is different than the planet itself. In fact, I believe some planet's moon has the closest comparability to the Earth itself. However, I doubt it has natural water and what not, but hey, what do I know for sure? Never been there.

Two. Did you just say.. Allah? Cause if so.. that makes so much sense as to why and where the stuff you speak of regarding the bible seems so outlandish.

I never read that Allah biblical version, well, not entirely.

I was, originally, wondering why their religious belief deemed America the 'Devil', so I tried reading some of it.

Perhaps.

I read it also.

And found many Gems of Brilliance within its sands.

But for myself.

I follow God.

It matters not to me how a man name His name.

so I sometimes say Yahwah, Yahova.

I like Allah.

I have seen his Glory.

God is indeed Most Glorius.

As my father taught me.

..which leads me to my final question.

..and don't take this wrong.

..why is it that some religious people..
..like, you, for example.

Almost seem 'drunk' or 'intoxicated' when they speak?

Like riddles or prophetic-like speech..
..as if they snorted some G-O-D before logging on.

No, not saying that IS the case.
..and maybe it's just how you talk.

And maybe that's wrong of me to see it like that.

..but you, Morning Song, even Cowboy..
..you just have a certain way in which you all speak.

Water of God.

best wine in the universe.

Bar nun.

I will quaf that ale

above all others.

Sweetest water on earth.

Thanks, MsHarmony. Here we see:

1. the intent to hit her is for the child to come out. This could be done during birthing or way before birthing. Not specified.
2. the fine is only imposed when there is harm. There is no specifics as to what constitutes harm. Harm as to the mother, to the child, or to material goods. It says "life for life", but we don't know if this applies to the Mother's life, or also to the child's life, which is only possible at a natural birthing session at the end of term.
3. WE are not at a liberty to decide if this is happening at end of term, or not; there is not a specific given.
4. Therefore this passage is not indicative of what was said in the second testament.
5. This may even be a passage from the old testament, and we are looking to see what Jesus said about killing an unborn fetus.

Sorry, this passage is not something that can add value to our debate, since the terms are vague, and the presented scenario is not described well for certain very important and need details.