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| Topic: Pantheism | |
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Morningsong its nice to know that God is not interested in what we think about him or how we worship him. I agree.
What are we going to do about his son? Is he in trouble again? 
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Just because everyone in every religions "agrees" that there is only one God does not mean that they have anything in common. They all believe that their God is the only real God and everyone else is an idiot worshiping a false God. That may be what you believe. There is a different way to look at it. It does mean that they have something in common. All those who believe in a single unique monotheistic God with the attributes listed earlier - omnipresent, infinite, unknowable in entirety, the creator of the Universe and source of inner peace are actually describing a real entity which is the sum of all existence and is the same God described in slightly but insignificant ways by the different religions. This is the Pantheist/Abrahamic/Taoist God. The same One God. Everyone are not idiots worshiping false gods but actually are intelligent and caring people honoring the same God with different rituals and holidays and slightly different descriptions of this practice. And it is silly for any of them to claim ownership of God - or that their description of this one same God is better than anothers. I find this to be much closer to the truth. and yet you think that your description of this one same God is better than others. Just more a more unifying and simpler description which holds true for all the monotheistic religions including Pan-theism. 
I am saying there is no point to say "My version of the One God is better than your version of the same thing!"
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I am saying there is no point to say "My version of the One
God is better than your version of the same thing!" And yet you keep saying it. |
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I am saying there is no point to say "My version of the One
God is better than your version of the same thing!" And yet you keep saying it. Has he? Or has he merely expressed what his faith is on the matter at hand? Has he truly said his was directly better then yours? |
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I am saying there is no point to say "My version of the One
God is better than your version of the same thing!" And yet you keep saying it. Has he? Or has he merely expressed what his faith is on the matter at hand? Has he truly said his was directly better then yours? We are both basically pantheists, so I am not referring to me personally. He is saying that the "pantheist God" is the same one as the Christian God. His reasoning is the agreement that there is only one God, so it must be the same God. But if I were to go into a Christian Church and tell them that they don't need Jesus because the pantheist God is the same as their God, they would call that heresy. |
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I am saying there is no point to say "My version of the One
God is better than your version of the same thing!" And yet you keep saying it. Has he? Or has he merely expressed what his faith is on the matter at hand? Has he truly said his was directly better then yours? Just to clarify I have not said that. We are both basically pantheists, so I am not referring to me personally. He is saying that the "pantheist God" is the same one as the Christian God. His reasoning is the agreement that there is only one God, so it must be the same God. But if I were to go into a Christian Church and tell them that they don't need Jesus because the pantheist God is the same as their God, they would call that heresy. It is more than that. I am also saying that the Pantheist/Taoist/Abrahamic One God has primarily the same characteristics in each religion. I suggest there is no need to tell Christians that their understanding of Jesus and God is wrong since it is the Pantheist God is the same as the Christian God. This is unnecessary and divisive. You don't need to tell anyone that their concept of God is wrong either.
I am on record advocating religious tolerance. This does not mean telling others that their concept of God is "wrong" - especially if it is the same God!
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I am saying there is no point to say "My version of the One
God is better than your version of the same thing!" And yet you keep saying it. Has he? Or has he merely expressed what his faith is on the matter at hand? Has he truly said his was directly better then yours? Just to clarify I have not said that. We are both basically pantheists, so I am not referring to me personally. He is saying that the "pantheist God" is the same one as the Christian God. His reasoning is the agreement that there is only one God, so it must be the same God. But if I were to go into a Christian Church and tell them that they don't need Jesus because the pantheist God is the same as their God, they would call that heresy. It is more than that. I am also saying that the Pantheist/Taoist/Abrahamic One God has primarily the same characteristics in each religion. I suggest there is no need to tell Christians that their understanding of Jesus and God is wrong since it is the Pantheist God is the same as the Christian God. This is unnecessary and divisive. You don't need to tell anyone that their concept of God is wrong either.
I am on record advocating religious tolerance. This does not mean telling others that their concept of God is "wrong" - especially if it is the same God!
Telling them it is the same God is the same as telling them that they are wrong because they do not believe it is the same God. They would rather tell you that you worship a false God. They would rather tell you that anyone who does not worship their God worships a false God. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Mon 10/31/11 11:56 AM
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You can express your personal beliefs about all religions having the same God till the cows come home but that will not create religious tolerance because to them, you are just a pagan or atheist.
The only "tolerance" you need to be concerned about is your own.
Tolerate that Christians believe you are a pagan and a heretic. I accept that. That's what they believe about me. Oh well. ..don't care...   
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As a Christian, it gets tiresome being told what is "required" for me to be "saved" as well as how I feel about homosexuals, pagans, heretics and whatever else ppl want assert I feel and believe.
s1owhand made a good post trying to bring unity here, yet people show their lack of compassion and understanding saying he's trying to "speak" for Christians while they simutaneously say that Christians won't accept it. It's about time people started speaking for themselves instead of me listening to this hearsay BS. As for the OP, I agree with the satements, but I would add that the only difference would be the "intent" of those involved. Also, on the issue of being "saved"... I think the only way for that is to learn and understand the true meaning of the word "repent"... |
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As a non Christian I also get tired of being told that I need to be saved and what is required.
I speak from my own experience in my encounters with fundamentalists Christians who have basically told me I am an agent of Satan. There are many different kinds of people who call themselves Christians but the ones I have spoken to about my beliefs were horrified at the Pantheist concept of God. I agree that if there is only one God then all people who believe in God are talking about the same God, but that's because I'm a Pantheist. I don't think you are going to convince very many Christians. That's all I am saying. |
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Here’s the thing, S1owhand, how can you possibly know what the principles of every religious view are and how can you possibly know that they cannot change? If god gave directions even once to any man in history, what would stop it from happening again? The fact that there is no consensus of what it is that any god actually said AND meant to any human means that there is no possible way to know what principles of belief that or any god would expect humans to follow. thank you Red, you have brought forward probably the biggest issue I have with traditional religious beliefs [in bold]. (may be off topic but I'd like to respond to this). How can any rational person accept that the Almighty Creator once decided it wise to reveal itself to Man (primitive Man, at that)? Why would it do this? Why not reveal itself every few generations to make sure that we truly have the right ideas at heart? Why not reveal itself to every individual? Surely this would've prevented millennia of disagrement, persecution, war and murder. Apologies if I've misconstrued your meaning. 
I think you've caught the jest of what I was saying and used it to show another example. As Aperture said, it's illogical that a very communicative god would suddenly become silent for thousands of years. Along the same lines, it makes almost no sense that a creator god would have so little understanding of its own creations that it would expect humans to believe and follow a human who said he has a message from god. I mean, how many poeple here would follow a Jim Jones type? Well I think it is illogical for anyone at all to think that they know how frequently God would communicate or what time scale is relevant to God or to presume to know that God did not communicate. Much less what the gist of such communications might be!
I mean c'mon now.
Well that's just as accurate but youv'e missed the part about - How would we know that a deity or even the Christian deity HAS spoken to anyone? There are thousands of people who claim they have been spoken to - some of them attempt to change previously held religious beliefs. But should people follow - Heaven's Gate for example? |
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Here’s the thing, S1owhand, how can you possibly know what the principles of every religious view are and how can you possibly know that they cannot change? If god gave directions even once to any man in history, what would stop it from happening again? The fact that there is no consensus of what it is that any god actually said AND meant to any human means that there is no possible way to know what principles of belief that or any god would expect humans to follow. thank you Red, you have brought forward probably the biggest issue I have with traditional religious beliefs [in bold]. (may be off topic but I'd like to respond to this). How can any rational person accept that the Almighty Creator once decided it wise to reveal itself to Man (primitive Man, at that)? Why would it do this? Why not reveal itself every few generations to make sure that we truly have the right ideas at heart? Why not reveal itself to every individual? Surely this would've prevented millennia of disagrement, persecution, war and murder. Apologies if I've misconstrued your meaning.
I think you've caught the jest of what I was saying and used it to show another example. As Aperture said, it's illogical that a very communicative god would suddenly become silent for thousands of years. Along the same lines, it makes almost no sense that a creator god would have so little understanding of its own creations that it would expect humans to believe and follow a human who said he has a message from god. I mean, how many poeple here would follow a Jim Jones type? Well I think it is illogical for anyone at all to think that they know how frequently God would communicate or what time scale is relevant to God or to presume to know that God did not communicate. Much less what the gist of such communications might be!
I mean c'mon now.
Well that's just as accurate but youv'e missed the part about - How would we know that a deity or even the Christian deity HAS spoken to anyone? There are thousands of people who claim they have been spoken to - some of them attempt to change previously held religious beliefs. But should people follow - Heaven's Gate for example? Well I wouldn't follow Heaven's Gate or advocate that anyone follow them!
I guess only the individual who has felt a communication from God will be able to relate and truly appreciate the experience. I can say that I have felt the presence of God. And, I have experienced the realization that the Abrahamic/Pantheist/Taoist One God is the same One God. Might as well consider this realization a revelation. But I am not seeking followers in the sense of disciples!
And I don't advocate that my path is the same as anyone else's path to Nirvana/Salvation/Tao/Awareness. Yes, we all should be wary that there are those who would lead us astray and take advantage of us and attempt to control us with false teachings and perversions of religion. But the major religions of the world all preach peace, love, harmony, kindness, charity and fairness and we should focus on these things and avoid teachings of superiority, divisiveness, control of finances, holy war, forced conversion, separation from society, suicide pacts and the like. Otherwise common rituals like holiday observances, what we eat or wear, methods of prayer and daily routines are benign and everyone should find a way of living which emphasizes spirituality and ethical behavior and empathy with our fellow human beings and accommodation or tolerance of others' paths and rituals as long as there is no harm to themselves or others. Rather seeking the opposite of harm which is caring and enlightenment for everyone.
“People take different roads seeking fulfillment and happiness. Just because they’re not on your road doesn’t mean they’ve gotten lost.” ― Dalai Lama XIV |
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As a Christian, it gets tiresome being told what is "required" for me to be "saved" as well as how I feel about homosexuals, pagans, heretics and whatever else ppl want assert I feel and believe. s1owhand made a good post trying to bring unity here, yet people show their lack of compassion and understanding saying he's trying to "speak" for Christians while they simutaneously say that Christians won't accept it. It's about time people started speaking for themselves instead of me listening to this hearsay BS. As for the OP, I agree with the satements, but I would add that the only difference would be the "intent" of those involved. Also, on the issue of being "saved"... I think the only way for that is to learn and understand the true meaning of the word "repent"...
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