As the bible states in many places.

God IS all.

It would stand to reason then the the inverse be true also.

If he is all things.

All things contain him.

sorta like...

He walks with me as He does with you.

Yep.

Pantheism.

God is all.
God is in all.

The reason people have a problem with that is because they want to worship something outside of themselves.

Worship life.
Worship thyself.

Yet God is also greater than all that we perceive...

so pantheism falls short

God is all.
All is God.
God is greater than all.

One can see the footprints but the essence is still greater than the understand of it.

Depends on what you mean by "greater."
If God is all how can It be greater than all?

How can one be greater than oneself?

And if God is all, there is nothing else to be greater than.

And there is no one who is lesser that can acknowledge that greatness because they are part of the All that is.

Ah.,..

But I said.

God is greater than all we percieve.

Our perception is limited is it not?

We can not see below the planck time unit.

We can not see above the limit of time upon Electromagnetic frequencies.

Once we could not see into the Abyss.

Now we view the Abyss as far as the limits of time allow.

and there is Chaos beyond that (to our vision).

for Chaos to exist (if god is all) he then must be greater than our vision can reach.(in is essence)

I agree that God is greater that all we perceive.

But you also said:

God is all.
All is God.
God is greater than all.


I agree that God is greater than our limited vision can reach. That is a no-brainer.

Something must 'contain' all else all not exist.

(the elephant holds up the earth... What is it 'standing' on?)

See the Chaos yet?

What little I have learned about pantheism is through reading about it in it's most ancient forms.

So far the discussion here seems to have missed a very important point and in some cases, having missed the point, we see how beliefs evolve.

Pantheism is not a belief in 'a' god in the same vein as the monotheistic beliefs of 'a' god.

In pantheism, there is no sigularity and thus no individuality assigned to the god force. The force that is god is universal and it exists in every element that makes up the universe.

With that perspective, there is no god without the universe and every 'thing' that exists within the universe, being made up of the stuff of the universe, is a thing to be respected.

Many of the Native American belief systems were pantheistic. When they spoke of or to the spirit in the wind, or the father sky and mother earth, they were speaking out of reverence. When they killed a bison they praised the animal for it's worthy fight and thanked it for giving its life so many could live. They were fanatical about utilizing every part of the animal because it respectful to the animal that its life was not given in vein.

They were nomadic, due in part to the weather, but more than that they knew that settling in one spot too long would put stress on the nature of that envirenment.

Now THAT is pantheism and I see no connection what-so-ever between that idealism and any major religion that exists today.

What I have seen however, are people inserting their tunnel vision, like a knife, into that beautiful pantheistic concept of god as universe, and twisting that knife to make the pantheistic concept more homogenous to their own narrow view of 'a' god.

In pantheism there is no singularity about god and no indiduation that separates god into things that are not god.

I don't think even atheism is as opposite of monothesim as pantheism is.

EDITING TO ADMIT A MISTAKE: Jeanniebean seems to have been supporting a much more realistic version of pantheism and she is getting guff for it.

I think that's a testament to the deep rooted desire of all believers in a god to find the similarities in all beliefs. There are far more differences that most believers want to admit.

You're still thinking in 3D.

Perfect!

--->"In pantheism, there is no sigularity and thus no individuality assigned to the god force."<------

Not really...

For something to be greater than our current 'all' there must be a reality in existance that is beyond dimensional realities and time(as we know it).

We might postulate it... (quantum theories, strings, multi-verse etc..) However we can not yet 'see' beyond the '4d' space.

The event horizon of the 'singularity' we exist within bounces our vision back to this reality.

By "our current all" you seem to be speaking of all that we perceive (know about) rather that all that is.

When I say "all" I am speaking of ALL THAT IS whether we know about it or not. That includes the unknown.

By "see" you seem to be referring to visual scientific methods of seeing and knowing.

I speak of something else. Spiritual sight, or even faith in that which is unknown... faith that it (something unknown) exists.

Monotheists believe in one God.
Pantheists also believe in one God.

Both are right. It is the same God.

The rest is just different ways to
frame their beliefs and rituals.

None are "better" than the other.

I find it amusing to see those who
have some beef with one view or
another trying to criticize each
other over the manner in which they
observe their worship of God.

The Pantheist God is obviously the same as
the Abrahamic God and all other concepts
of a single deity - Native Americans etc.

There is only One!

It's silly!



Now go forth and love one another.

SLowhand...


Pantheist DON'T believe in a DEITY.....period.

Panthesist DON'T believe there is a PERSONAL CREATOR GOD ,

Watching over us.

Pantheist DON'T believe in a SUPREME BEING .....


Pantheist just believe EVERYTHING IS GOD.


Therefore,


The Pantheist View of God is obviously NOT the same as

the Abrahamic God ( which is

a single deity -ONE God Almighty).


And yes..I agreee...there is ONLY ONE GOD.

And I also agree.....about the MOST important thing of all...


and that is,

Let Us Love One Another!!!

Amen!!!

You are trying to alter the definition of Pantheism.

Pantheism by definition is the belief in one unique God which is
the sum of everything. Their personal God which cannot be different
from the single unique God all monotheists honor.

Pantheists do believe in this God - they are not Atheists.

I see no problem with this. We all believe in the same God
so it should make things easier.

Great answer, thank you.

Semantics. The devil is in the details.

Pantheism is the view that the Universe (Nature) and God (or divinity) are identical.[1] Pantheists thus do not believe in a personal, anthropomorphic or creator god. The word derives from the Greek (pan) meaning "all" and the Greek (theos) meaning "God". As such, Pantheism denotes the idea that "God" is best seen as a process of relating to the Universe.[2] Although there are divergences within Pantheism, the central ideas found in almost all versions are the Cosmos as an all-encompassing unity and the sacredness of Nature.

I acknowledge (not respect) the fact that faith is an issue to be tiptoed around and causing offence is not my aim, so I will choose my words carefully.




Firstly, I find it very hard to take someone seriously when they use terms like 'false religions' trying to make a distinction between their beliefs and those of others. Were I a follower of one of these faiths I'd be justified in playing the 'offended' card here (thankfully, I'm not). This 'I'm right, everyone else is wrong' mentality should be left behind in the dark ages IMO.



The ancient texts and their numerous translations can and have been interpreted in many, often opposing ways. A Pantheist could quote that exact passage as 'proof' of their God model. Scripture adds no weight to any argument.



'It's wrong because Moses said so' is hardly a conclusive argument. Regardless of whether one trusts that Moses was in direct communication with an almighty creator, or believes, as I do, that he spoke to a volcano, here is something I think we can all agree on: he lived thousands of years ago and as such had a limited (we may say 'primitive') understanding of the Earth and its place in the cosmos. We have come a long way since then.