Of course you are free to create the god of your choice, like everyone else. The gods that belong to individuals have minimal strength. It's the gods that are harnessed to religious dogatic organization that seem to cause some of the worlds greatest annoyances.

I'm just catching up with this thread so I'm a little late but I just wanted to comment the responce made above, I liked it - well put.

What college? I'm in the midwest - Part of the Bible belt actually and most of my college educated friends are atheists or agnostics who simply don't consider god on any consistant basis. Of course most of them are in the sciences - maybe that makes a difference.

Because these ideas originate from the OT. Has nothing to
do with modern day. Of course the ridiculous assertion that
"Jews" don't exist is a false statement about the OT as well as
modern day.

I don't interpret things only in a modern day sense. The bible
was always allegorical and the comments I made are just as valid
for the ancient Hebrews as modern day Christians, Jews and Muslims.

The posts regarding Jews being a race instead of a religion are
and always were false. There always was conversion. There always
were different races who were Jews. It's transparent bigotry.

I am not creating my own God. I am pointing out that according
to Pantheism and the Abrahamic religions and Taoism and many
other religions that there is only One God and it is obviously
the same God for everyone. Has the same attributes etc.



The Abrahamic/Pantheist/Taoist God is the same God for EVERYBODY.

I agree that many bad things are done in the name of various
religions but that is not because of the religions themselves.

The prime example today is Islamic extremism. But most Muslims
abhor the Islamic fundamentalist extremists. Their views are
not due to the religion but are counter to its principles.



I think that atheists, pantheists and agnostics who misrepresent
religious teachings of other mainstream religions are just as
guilty of religious intolerance when they try to promote their
views above Christians, Muslims or Jews as the Islamic
fundamentalists or Christian fundamentalists who claim that their
religion is the only way and try to convert everybody.

Religious tolerance and understanding is the way to go. The
concept of a single universal God is a beautiful, intellectually
satisfying and unifying concept and this truly is divine - coming
from God.

Well slowhand you have your own opinion. I think you are clinging to that old religion and that you just don't understand the difference between the Christian concept of a personal God and pantheism. Just because Christians and everyone else agree that there is only one God does not mean that their concept of God are the same.

Everyone seems so all fired sure there is only one God and nobody can even come close to proving that there is any such thing as God in the first place, so its all a moot point anyway, not worth an argument.

Well nobody can prove that there is no God either.



No one's concept of God is exactly the same. But if there is only
one God then it has to be the same God for everyone even if they
have different views of this same God. There is no reason why a
pantheistic view of God cannot also be personal.

It is like the old story of the blind men each observing a different
part of the elephant. The have different experiences and differing
viewpoints but that does not mean any of them are wrong and also
they are all just describing the same thing in different ways.

The argument that there is only one of something that can't even be verified, defined or proven to exist is a waste of time. Its all just opinions. Whatever works for you.

Actually the pantheistic God is trivial to prove. Since there are
parts to the universe so is there a sum of all the parts
of the universe.

There. God is proven to exist and well defined and verified.
So it is hardly merely opinion. Even though that is your opinion.

That the universe exists can easily be proven, I agree.

Trying to convince everyone (Christians) that it is "God" is futile.

You also cannot prove that this universe is the only one that exists.

But for us, it's basically the only one that matters.

There is only one Universe. That is the definition of Universe.
It is Universal. The idea of multiple Universes has no basis and
is basically hypothetical and pointless. In any case the Universe can always be considered to be the largest set of Universes.

From the Wiki....

Broadest definition: reality and probability
See also: Essence–Energies_distinction#Distinction between created and uncreated

The broadest definition of the universe can be found in De divisione naturae by the medieval philosopher and theologian Johannes Scotus Eriugena, who defined it as simply everything: everything that is created and everything that is not created. In the path integral formulation of Richard Feynman,[16] the probability amplitudes for the various outcomes of an experiment given a perfectly defined initial state of the system are determined by summing over all possible histories (paths) by which the system could progress from the initial to final state.

Definition as reality
See also: Reality and Physics

More customarily, the universe is defined as everything that exists, (has existed, and will exist)[citation needed]. According to our current understanding, the universe consists of three principles: spacetime, forms of energy, including momentum and matter, and the physical laws that relate them.





And the Christian/Pantheist/Taoist God can be thought of as one
with the Universe. Not futile and no problem at all. Nice.

Thank you, Redykeulous



Isn't it great to see proportions in action?
Education erodes unfounded faith (or ignorance), both in the individual and in the long term, bigger picture.

MorningSong, a few things, if you'll do me the honour:
Firstly, far be it from me to dictate who should say what and where, but I was lead to believe (by the rules of this forum) that there were seperate forums for those of differing faiths; I cannot view or post on the Muslim forum, say, because I declared on my profile that I am not a Muslim.
Now, I'm all for an open and civilised discussion between people of any and all faiths (in fact I cherish it ), I'm just confused as to why a clearly Christian person is persistantly posting in a 'general religion chat' forum, and on topics about pantheism. Are you trying to 'save' us?
Please let me stress: I'm not saying 'each should stick to their own', far from it; I welcome input from anyone who has peace & love as priority one in their heart, I just don't get your angle.

Most importantly:


I, personally, don't see why Man has to impose his own personality onto God. Please, read through the bible stories and count how many times God is described as having human emotions (love, hate, regret - sheesh he even does a 180 on a lot of issues by the time of the New Testament), does this not sound like a human mind? Would not an Ultimate Intelligence be so far removed [above] from such petty feelings as to make such stories laughable?

Would the Master of the Universe really care if a human being said his 'name' in vain? or if they wore a piece of cloth around their head? bowed down and praised to Allah five times a day? Such matters would be insignificant to an all-loving-overlord, I say.

Just as nobody can prove that I don't have an invisible unicorn in my back garden; seriously, come and see for yourself! You can't see it, you can't disprove it. S1ow, I had thought you were above the likes of Ray Comfort and his 'banana' arguments.


There is a reason, and a damn good one at that; that, conversely, there is zero justification in imposing simple human emotions onto an Ultimate Intelligence. Were I this Intelligence I would find it offensive (or more likely, I would be so far above such petty matters that I wouldn't even acknowledge) that a mere animal as Man claims to know my mind.



Now you begin to make sense!
We, as petty mortals, know so little that any claim made by us about the almighty is inherently flawed. The only hope we have of coming to such an understanding is through time, discovery and experience.

BTW: stealth, coincidence, alternate profile or divine providence?
Any which way, I am amazed!

S1owhand said:



So how do you know that there are no other universes? The doors to those universes could be through black holes. There is no time and space beyond the event horizon of a black hole. Have you ever been through a black hole? Do you know what lies beyond one?

Do you know where the big bang came from?

I guess the series I just watched called "How the Universe works" where scientists speculate about mulit-universes is just science fiction? The truth of the matter is, THEY DON'T KNOW FOR SURE. That means that YOU don't know either. So why don't you stop pretending you do?



It is, after all, an idea. Just as "God" is an idea. "God" too is basically hypothetical and pointless to argue about.



Now you are saying that there are "sets" of Universes. That translates to more than one.

ApertureScienc....I answered via email.....

Be Blessed Now.....

Now you will receive many blue lines of unreasearched blind faith in dogma and ritual....

To explain how wrong every one else is and that all you need is to accept what a certian group has decided is the truth.

Aye time, discovery and experience.

and YOUR own personal investigation of truth.

How can you call it unresearched blind faith? We receive this knowledge from something that was written many years ago. It then becomes a theory if it's true or not. We practice what is written in these scriptures and they do not fail to achieve what they say. So with it no failing, it would then become a fact. That's exactly even what scientists do to find "facts". First it's a theory, and if it doesn't fail after multiple "experiments", it becomes a fact.