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| Topic: Rise of atheism. | |
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why should I expect any realistic book to leave out anything but whats easy or pleasant or nice? I think we should expect more from a so called divine being. Some of the things the Bible God does are NOT divine acts, I don't care how you wanna justify them. If one is gonna claim God is better than we are, then said God damn well better act the part, otherwise it's just a human made to be a God. more of the teenagerish, 1.you arent the way I THINK you should be, so you arent worthy,,,, 2.you dont make sense to 'me' because you dont behave as I think you should and I am pretty brilliant about how you should act,,, No it's called using my head. Simple as that. I don't blindly accept things anymore. I think, I reason, and my logic tells me a God like that is not love. Bottom line. personal logic is subjective,,,as is personal bottom line I dont blindly accept blind questioning or suspicion,,my logic tells me a God like that is JUST as well as loving,,, Well you have been lied to. You may take offense at that, but that is the truth. The Bible God is nothing more than a human. |
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why should I expect any realistic book to leave out anything but whats easy or pleasant or nice? I think we should expect more from a so called divine being. Some of the things the Bible God does are NOT divine acts, I don't care how you wanna justify them. If one is gonna claim God is better than we are, then said God damn well better act the part, otherwise it's just a human made to be a God. more of the teenagerish, 1.you arent the way I THINK you should be, so you arent worthy,,,, 2.you dont make sense to 'me' because you dont behave as I think you should and I am pretty brilliant about how you should act,,, No it's called using my head. Simple as that. I don't blindly accept things anymore. I think, I reason, and my logic tells me a God like that is not love. Bottom line. personal logic is subjective,,,as is personal bottom line I dont blindly accept blind questioning or suspicion,,my logic tells me a God like that is JUST as well as loving,,, Well you have been lied to. You may take offense at that, but that is the truth. The Bible God is nothing more than a human. I respect that is what you believe. Hopefully you can respect that its NOT what I believe. Neither of us has proof one way or the other of such existence of a 'lie' or absence of one,,, |
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I Can think of hundreds of biblical references to things that most people agree upon, why does it become automatically controversial if the Bible mentions it,, the Bible happens to have plenty of moral value regardless of religious affiliation It's not that good things that are the problem, it's the rest mixed in. Every single religious text is gonna have some truth in it, it would have to to be accepted as true. There is nothing wrong with taking the good parts and applying them to your life as you see fit. However, the problem comes in when you assume that any one book is ENTIRELY true, because then it's not just the good being played up but also the bad. It's those other bad parts that cause all the problems, aka: "My God says that He's gonna do this if you don't believe, My God commands homosexuals must die as they are an abomination, etc etc etc" Reality is, no one single book is all true, and it's this idea that any of them could be that is the root of our problems in society, because they create judgment and division among the people as I illustrated above. We would be far better off, if we'd take strictly the good from these books (such as God is love), and leave the bad behind. have you ever considered that we also can learn 'good' lessons from the 'bad' parts What good lesson can you truly learn from a story in which God is gonna drown little babies who had nothing to do with anything besides existing, or the idea that this God is gonna demand worship or you will cease to live? That's just scare tactics and bullying, to say nothing of evil to the core. If any lessons are to be taken from that, it's how NOT to act. lesson one,, life is not promised,, even from birth lesson two, we are mortal in this skin on this earth lesson three, there is one who can offer us immortality in return for simply believing he can,,,, lesson four, you have free will but you really don't because you can only make one choice and live. free will has nothing to do with living, we die regardless of our choices(in this life) we can have life BEYOND this life ( a bonus) for a very small price on our part It's spiritual rape msharmony. The idea of being able to freely choose heaven, but only if you do a b and c, otherwise God kills you is the same as a rapist saying you're free to go but if you try he will kill you. There's no difference. That does not a divine being make. |
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why should I expect any realistic book to leave out anything but whats easy or pleasant or nice? I think we should expect more from a so called divine being. Some of the things the Bible God does are NOT divine acts, I don't care how you wanna justify them. If one is gonna claim God is better than we are, then said God damn well better act the part, otherwise it's just a human made to be a God. more of the teenagerish, 1.you arent the way I THINK you should be, so you arent worthy,,,, 2.you dont make sense to 'me' because you dont behave as I think you should and I am pretty brilliant about how you should act,,, No it's called using my head. Simple as that. I don't blindly accept things anymore. I think, I reason, and my logic tells me a God like that is not love. Bottom line. personal logic is subjective,,,as is personal bottom line I dont blindly accept blind questioning or suspicion,,my logic tells me a God like that is JUST as well as loving,,, Well you have been lied to. You may take offense at that, but that is the truth. The Bible God is nothing more than a human. I respect that is what you believe. Hopefully you can respect that its NOT what I believe. Neither of us has proof one way or the other of such existence of a 'lie' or absence of one,,, I have more proof than you do. How can God be a God of love, yet of hate? How can He be all forgiving and all merciful, but then let you die anyway without a chance to repent again? These things are NOT logical! |
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why should I expect any realistic book to leave out anything but whats easy or pleasant or nice? I think we should expect more from a so called divine being. Some of the things the Bible God does are NOT divine acts, I don't care how you wanna justify them. If one is gonna claim God is better than we are, then said God damn well better act the part, otherwise it's just a human made to be a God. more of the teenagerish, 1.you arent the way I THINK you should be, so you arent worthy,,,, 2.you dont make sense to 'me' because you dont behave as I think you should and I am pretty brilliant about how you should act,,, No it's called using my head. Simple as that. I don't blindly accept things anymore. I think, I reason, and my logic tells me a God like that is not love. Bottom line. personal logic is subjective,,,as is personal bottom line I dont blindly accept blind questioning or suspicion,,my logic tells me a God like that is JUST as well as loving,,, Well you have been lied to. You may take offense at that, but that is the truth. The Bible God is nothing more than a human. I respect that is what you believe. Hopefully you can respect that its NOT what I believe. Neither of us has proof one way or the other of such existence of a 'lie' or absence of one,,, I have more proof than you do. How can God be a God of love, yet of hate? How can He be all forgiving and all merciful, but then let you die anyway without a chance to repent again? These things are NOT logical! what you have meets the standards of 'proof' for YOU How can man love and hate, feel joy and pain? these arent proof of any lie about God, that he has such capability... since he created us in his image it would be expected that we might share some quailities(not all, but some) |
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why should I expect any realistic book to leave out anything but whats easy or pleasant or nice? I think we should expect more from a so called divine being. Some of the things the Bible God does are NOT divine acts, I don't care how you wanna justify them. If one is gonna claim God is better than we are, then said God damn well better act the part, otherwise it's just a human made to be a God. more of the teenagerish, 1.you arent the way I THINK you should be, so you arent worthy,,,, 2.you dont make sense to 'me' because you dont behave as I think you should and I am pretty brilliant about how you should act,,, No it's called using my head. Simple as that. I don't blindly accept things anymore. I think, I reason, and my logic tells me a God like that is not love. Bottom line. personal logic is subjective,,,as is personal bottom line I dont blindly accept blind questioning or suspicion,,my logic tells me a God like that is JUST as well as loving,,, Well you have been lied to. You may take offense at that, but that is the truth. The Bible God is nothing more than a human. I respect that is what you believe. Hopefully you can respect that its NOT what I believe. Neither of us has proof one way or the other of such existence of a 'lie' or absence of one,,, I have more proof than you do. How can God be a God of love, yet of hate? How can He be all forgiving and all merciful, but then let you die anyway without a chance to repent again? These things are NOT logical! what you have meets the standards of 'proof' for YOU How can man love and hate, feel joy and pain? these arent proof of any lie about God, that he has such capability... since he created us in his image it would be expected that we might share some quailities(not all, but some) The only proof you have, is in your book, if there was any legitimate proof that these people existed, why is it not found anywhere else?? One source does not proof make. Second, let's talk about creation for a second. It makes NO sense that God would make us with the capacity to act as we do, fully knowing ahead of time no less that we'd act as we do, and then still punish us anyway. NONE. If it's true, then God messed up and made us imperfect, which would mean he isn't perfect. He can't be perfect and yet make us wrong. No, if He made us this way, we were meant to be this way flat out. This alone disproves what Christianity says about God in and of itself. There is no way in the world that can make any good sense at all. |
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Atheism can mean lack of a god belief, which is different than saying there is absolutely no god....and Agnostic just means "do not know"..... so a person can be an atheist and agnostic. nope. you've got the definition of agnostic wrong. not only does an agnost not know there is a god, he/she thinks that the human mind is incapable of ever knowing. an weak atheist is what you defined. one who does not believe in god but is open to the possibility of knowing given the right evidence. a strong atheist, of course, believes that he knows there is no god. |
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why should I expect any realistic book to leave out anything but whats easy or pleasant or nice? I think we should expect more from a so called divine being. Some of the things the Bible God does are NOT divine acts, I don't care how you wanna justify them. If one is gonna claim God is better than we are, then said God damn well better act the part, otherwise it's just a human made to be a God. more of the teenagerish, 1.you arent the way I THINK you should be, so you arent worthy,,,, 2.you dont make sense to 'me' because you dont behave as I think you should and I am pretty brilliant about how you should act,,, No it's called using my head. Simple as that. I don't blindly accept things anymore. I think, I reason, and my logic tells me a God like that is not love. Bottom line. personal logic is subjective,,,as is personal bottom line I dont blindly accept blind questioning or suspicion,,my logic tells me a God like that is JUST as well as loving,,, Well you have been lied to. You may take offense at that, but that is the truth. The Bible God is nothing more than a human. you've a stramge way of using your head. mh said, "I dont blindly accept blind questioning or suspicion,,my logic tells me a God like that is JUST as well as loving,,," suggesting that her LOGIC led led her to believe meaning that no one told her a thing and from that your head deduced that she'd "been lied to." who lied to her??? |
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I have more proof than you do. nobody want's to see proof one way or the other about god than i do so let's see that "proof" you have more of. |
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why should I expect any realistic book to leave out anything but whats easy or pleasant or nice? I think we should expect more from a so called divine being. Some of the things the Bible God does are NOT divine acts, I don't care how you wanna justify them. If one is gonna claim God is better than we are, then said God damn well better act the part, otherwise it's just a human made to be a God. more of the teenagerish, 1.you arent the way I THINK you should be, so you arent worthy,,,, 2.you dont make sense to 'me' because you dont behave as I think you should and I am pretty brilliant about how you should act,,, No it's called using my head. Simple as that. I don't blindly accept things anymore. I think, I reason, and my logic tells me a God like that is not love. Bottom line. personal logic is subjective,,,as is personal bottom line I dont blindly accept blind questioning or suspicion,,my logic tells me a God like that is JUST as well as loving,,, Well you have been lied to. You may take offense at that, but that is the truth. The Bible God is nothing more than a human. I respect that is what you believe. Hopefully you can respect that its NOT what I believe. Neither of us has proof one way or the other of such existence of a 'lie' or absence of one,,, I have more proof than you do. How can God be a God of love, yet of hate? How can He be all forgiving and all merciful, but then let you die anyway without a chance to repent again? These things are NOT logical! what you have meets the standards of 'proof' for YOU How can man love and hate, feel joy and pain? these arent proof of any lie about God, that he has such capability... since he created us in his image it would be expected that we might share some quailities(not all, but some) The only proof you have, is in your book, if there was any legitimate proof that these people existed, why is it not found anywhere else?? One source does not proof make. Second, let's talk about creation for a second. It makes NO sense that God would make us with the capacity to act as we do, fully knowing ahead of time no less that we'd act as we do, and then still punish us anyway. NONE. If it's true, then God messed up and made us imperfect, which would mean he isn't perfect. He can't be perfect and yet make us wrong. No, if He made us this way, we were meant to be this way flat out. This alone disproves what Christianity says about God in and of itself. There is no way in the world that can make any good sense at all. the events that you refer to here are contained in the bible that you say proves nothing. i agree, of course, it's all nothing but testimony. so how does testimony disproove anything??? perhaps it's not convincing but it "disproves what christianity says about god in and of itself???" makes no more sense than a christian saying the bible prooves god. |
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I Can think of hundreds of biblical references to things that most people agree upon, why does it become automatically controversial if the Bible mentions it,, the Bible happens to have plenty of moral value regardless of religious affiliation It's not that good things that are the problem, it's the rest mixed in. Every single religious text is gonna have some truth in it, it would have to to be accepted as true. There is nothing wrong with taking the good parts and applying them to your life as you see fit. However, the problem comes in when you assume that any one book is ENTIRELY true, because then it's not just the good being played up but also the bad. It's those other bad parts that cause all the problems, aka: "My God says that He's gonna do this if you don't believe, My God commands homosexuals must die as they are an abomination, etc etc etc" Reality is, no one single book is all true, and it's this idea that any of them could be that is the root of our problems in society, because they create judgment and division among the people as I illustrated above. We would be far better off, if we'd take strictly the good from these books (such as God is love), and leave the bad behind. have you ever considered that we also can learn 'good' lessons from the 'bad' parts What good lesson can you truly learn from a story in which God is gonna drown little babies who had nothing to do with anything besides existing, or the idea that this God is gonna demand worship or you will cease to live? That's just scare tactics and bullying, to say nothing of evil to the core. If any lessons are to be taken from that, it's how NOT to act. lesson one,, life is not promised,, even from birth lesson two, we are mortal in this skin on this earth lesson three, there is one who can offer us immortality in return for simply believing he can,,,, lesson four, you have free will but you really don't because you can only make one choice and live. free will has nothing to do with living, we die regardless of our choices(in this life) we can have life BEYOND this life ( a bonus) for a very small price on our part It's spiritual rape msharmony. The idea of being able to freely choose heaven, but only if you do a b and c, otherwise God kills you is the same as a rapist saying you're free to go but if you try he will kill you. There's no difference. That does not a divine being make. whose idea is 'freely choosing heaven' ? that is a BONUS,, why should we be entitled to it for FREE? that is human ego at its best the choice is God, not heaven we can freely choose GOD |
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jrbogie wrote: not a person of faith but i don't see so much a rise in atheism as i see a rise of secularism in general. 'strong' atheism, a BELIEF that there is no god makes no more sense than a BELIEF that god exists. i think that more and more folks are turning towards scientific explanations of creation, evolution, etc., more so than simply rejecting religion. and of course our governemnt separates itself from religion more and more with each challenge in the courts in general. That's the best to be separated church/religion from government because both in combination can do only troubles / see Middle East/ Religion belongs to regions, countries ,traditions etc. God belongs to ppl and he doesn't need any rituals or territory. And yes ppl search explanation in science but I wonder if someone would claim that there is no God at all. |
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why should I expect any realistic book to leave out anything but whats easy or pleasant or nice? I think we should expect more from a so called divine being. Some of the things the Bible God does are NOT divine acts, I don't care how you wanna justify them. If one is gonna claim God is better than we are, then said God damn well better act the part, otherwise it's just a human made to be a God. more of the teenagerish, 1.you arent the way I THINK you should be, so you arent worthy,,,, 2.you dont make sense to 'me' because you dont behave as I think you should and I am pretty brilliant about how you should act,,, No it's called using my head. Simple as that. I don't blindly accept things anymore. I think, I reason, and my logic tells me a God like that is not love. Bottom line. personal logic is subjective,,,as is personal bottom line I dont blindly accept blind questioning or suspicion,,my logic tells me a God like that is JUST as well as loving,,, Well you have been lied to. You may take offense at that, but that is the truth. The Bible God is nothing more than a human. I respect that is what you believe. Hopefully you can respect that its NOT what I believe. Neither of us has proof one way or the other of such existence of a 'lie' or absence of one,,, I have more proof than you do. How can God be a God of love, yet of hate? How can He be all forgiving and all merciful, but then let you die anyway without a chance to repent again? These things are NOT logical! what you have meets the standards of 'proof' for YOU How can man love and hate, feel joy and pain? these arent proof of any lie about God, that he has such capability... since he created us in his image it would be expected that we might share some quailities(not all, but some) The only proof you have, is in your book, if there was any legitimate proof that these people existed, why is it not found anywhere else?? One source does not proof make. Second, let's talk about creation for a second. It makes NO sense that God would make us with the capacity to act as we do, fully knowing ahead of time no less that we'd act as we do, and then still punish us anyway. NONE. If it's true, then God messed up and made us imperfect, which would mean he isn't perfect. He can't be perfect and yet make us wrong. No, if He made us this way, we were meant to be this way flat out. This alone disproves what Christianity says about God in and of itself. There is no way in the world that can make any good sense at all. This is one example of how this 'debate' has no concrete way to 'convince' either side. first, it is stated that there is NO 'legitimate' biblical evidence outside the bible(untrue) and then it is stated that ONE source isnt proof. How far do most people take this philosophy in the modern world? Are you aware how many NEWS sources just repeat ONE story from ONE source? IF the initial source is considered valid enough, you will have dozens of other 'sources' paraphrasing and borrowing from it. That is how information gets spread plenty of time. In this case though, there are non biblical accounts from historians of the time which also make mention of events that happened in the bible and of Jesus. There is archaeology which also has uncovoered places and things mentioned in the bible. But I am sure the sources would not be 'legitimate' enough for anyone convinced that its all just stories and fairytales. |
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why should I expect any realistic book to leave out anything but whats easy or pleasant or nice? I think we should expect more from a so called divine being. Some of the things the Bible God does are NOT divine acts, I don't care how you wanna justify them. If one is gonna claim God is better than we are, then said God damn well better act the part, otherwise it's just a human made to be a God. more of the teenagerish, 1.you arent the way I THINK you should be, so you arent worthy,,,, 2.you dont make sense to 'me' because you dont behave as I think you should and I am pretty brilliant about how you should act,,, No it's called using my head. Simple as that. I don't blindly accept things anymore. I think, I reason, and my logic tells me a God like that is not love. Bottom line. personal logic is subjective,,,as is personal bottom line I dont blindly accept blind questioning or suspicion,,my logic tells me a God like that is JUST as well as loving,,, Well you have been lied to. You may take offense at that, but that is the truth. The Bible God is nothing more than a human. I respect that is what you believe. Hopefully you can respect that its NOT what I believe. Neither of us has proof one way or the other of such existence of a 'lie' or absence of one,,, I have more proof than you do. How can God be a God of love, yet of hate? How can He be all forgiving and all merciful, but then let you die anyway without a chance to repent again? These things are NOT logical! what you have meets the standards of 'proof' for YOU How can man love and hate, feel joy and pain? these arent proof of any lie about God, that he has such capability... since he created us in his image it would be expected that we might share some quailities(not all, but some) The only proof you have, is in your book, if there was any legitimate proof that these people existed, why is it not found anywhere else?? One source does not proof make. Second, let's talk about creation for a second. It makes NO sense that God would make us with the capacity to act as we do, fully knowing ahead of time no less that we'd act as we do, and then still punish us anyway. NONE. If it's true, then God messed up and made us imperfect, which would mean he isn't perfect. He can't be perfect and yet make us wrong. No, if He made us this way, we were meant to be this way flat out. This alone disproves what Christianity says about God in and of itself. There is no way in the world that can make any good sense at all. This is one example of how this 'debate' has no concrete way to 'convince' either side. first, it is stated that there is NO 'legitimate' biblical evidence outside the bible(untrue) and then it is stated that ONE source isnt proof. How far do most people take this philosophy in the modern world? Are you aware how many NEWS sources just repeat ONE story from ONE source? IF the initial source is considered valid enough, you will have dozens of other 'sources' paraphrasing and borrowing from it. That is how information gets spread plenty of time. In this case though, there are non biblical accounts from historians of the time which also make mention of events that happened in the bible and of Jesus. There is archaeology which also has uncovoered places and things mentioned in the bible. But I am sure the sources would not be 'legitimate' enough for anyone convinced that its all just stories and fairytales. Nothing worst then seeing a Deist (i'm assuming that's what Kleisto is) and a theists debating which representation of their God is truth. The whole point of personal belief, is just that, a personal belief, if whatever reason MH wants to believe what she so be it, just the same as Kleisto. The only problem comes when people on any side use there belief system and try to regulate it in the government, etc. For instance this whole prayer day in Texas, i can guarantee if Muslims wanted to hold a national Allah day, America would be a **** storm. As MH pointed out, i think it's a little redundant two people debating something of which both have no evidence for. |
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why should I expect any realistic book to leave out anything but whats easy or pleasant or nice? I think we should expect more from a so called divine being. Some of the things the Bible God does are NOT divine acts, I don't care how you wanna justify them. If one is gonna claim God is better than we are, then said God damn well better act the part, otherwise it's just a human made to be a God. more of the teenagerish, 1.you arent the way I THINK you should be, so you arent worthy,,,, 2.you dont make sense to 'me' because you dont behave as I think you should and I am pretty brilliant about how you should act,,, No it's called using my head. Simple as that. I don't blindly accept things anymore. I think, I reason, and my logic tells me a God like that is not love. Bottom line. personal logic is subjective,,,as is personal bottom line I dont blindly accept blind questioning or suspicion,,my logic tells me a God like that is JUST as well as loving,,, Well you have been lied to. You may take offense at that, but that is the truth. The Bible God is nothing more than a human. I respect that is what you believe. Hopefully you can respect that its NOT what I believe. Neither of us has proof one way or the other of such existence of a 'lie' or absence of one,,, I have more proof than you do. How can God be a God of love, yet of hate? How can He be all forgiving and all merciful, but then let you die anyway without a chance to repent again? These things are NOT logical! what you have meets the standards of 'proof' for YOU How can man love and hate, feel joy and pain? these arent proof of any lie about God, that he has such capability... since he created us in his image it would be expected that we might share some quailities(not all, but some) The only proof you have, is in your book, if there was any legitimate proof that these people existed, why is it not found anywhere else?? One source does not proof make. Second, let's talk about creation for a second. It makes NO sense that God would make us with the capacity to act as we do, fully knowing ahead of time no less that we'd act as we do, and then still punish us anyway. NONE. If it's true, then God messed up and made us imperfect, which would mean he isn't perfect. He can't be perfect and yet make us wrong. No, if He made us this way, we were meant to be this way flat out. This alone disproves what Christianity says about God in and of itself. There is no way in the world that can make any good sense at all. This is one example of how this 'debate' has no concrete way to 'convince' either side. first, it is stated that there is NO 'legitimate' biblical evidence outside the bible(untrue) and then it is stated that ONE source isnt proof. How far do most people take this philosophy in the modern world? Are you aware how many NEWS sources just repeat ONE story from ONE source? IF the initial source is considered valid enough, you will have dozens of other 'sources' paraphrasing and borrowing from it. That is how information gets spread plenty of time. In this case though, there are non biblical accounts from historians of the time which also make mention of events that happened in the bible and of Jesus. There is archaeology which also has uncovoered places and things mentioned in the bible. But I am sure the sources would not be 'legitimate' enough for anyone convinced that its all just stories and fairytales. Nothing worst then seeing a Deist (i'm assuming that's what Kleisto is) and a theists debating which representation of their God is truth. The whole point of personal belief, is just that, a personal belief, if whatever reason MH wants to believe what she so be it, just the same as Kleisto. The only problem comes when people on any side use there belief system and try to regulate it in the government, etc. For instance this whole prayer day in Texas, i can guarantee if Muslims wanted to hold a national Allah day, America would be a **** storm. As MH pointed out, i think it's a little redundant two people debating something of which both have no evidence for. the whole religion thread is usually about opinions for which people have no evidence for... just opinions and beliefs as for prayer day, anyone of any faith can 'pray', if its not a MANDATED observance, I really dont see the issue perhaps they should have called it 'national moment of reflection day', so it would be PC,, but that seems a bit long and unnecessary if the people of the state were cool with 'prayer day' |
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why should I expect any realistic book to leave out anything but whats easy or pleasant or nice? I think we should expect more from a so called divine being. Some of the things the Bible God does are NOT divine acts, I don't care how you wanna justify them. If one is gonna claim God is better than we are, then said God damn well better act the part, otherwise it's just a human made to be a God. more of the teenagerish, 1.you arent the way I THINK you should be, so you arent worthy,,,, 2.you dont make sense to 'me' because you dont behave as I think you should and I am pretty brilliant about how you should act,,, No it's called using my head. Simple as that. I don't blindly accept things anymore. I think, I reason, and my logic tells me a God like that is not love. Bottom line. personal logic is subjective,,,as is personal bottom line I dont blindly accept blind questioning or suspicion,,my logic tells me a God like that is JUST as well as loving,,, Well you have been lied to. You may take offense at that, but that is the truth. The Bible God is nothing more than a human. I respect that is what you believe. Hopefully you can respect that its NOT what I believe. Neither of us has proof one way or the other of such existence of a 'lie' or absence of one,,, I have more proof than you do. How can God be a God of love, yet of hate? How can He be all forgiving and all merciful, but then let you die anyway without a chance to repent again? These things are NOT logical! what you have meets the standards of 'proof' for YOU How can man love and hate, feel joy and pain? these arent proof of any lie about God, that he has such capability... since he created us in his image it would be expected that we might share some quailities(not all, but some) The only proof you have, is in your book, if there was any legitimate proof that these people existed, why is it not found anywhere else?? One source does not proof make. Second, let's talk about creation for a second. It makes NO sense that God would make us with the capacity to act as we do, fully knowing ahead of time no less that we'd act as we do, and then still punish us anyway. NONE. If it's true, then God messed up and made us imperfect, which would mean he isn't perfect. He can't be perfect and yet make us wrong. No, if He made us this way, we were meant to be this way flat out. This alone disproves what Christianity says about God in and of itself. There is no way in the world that can make any good sense at all. This is one example of how this 'debate' has no concrete way to 'convince' either side. first, it is stated that there is NO 'legitimate' biblical evidence outside the bible(untrue) and then it is stated that ONE source isnt proof. How far do most people take this philosophy in the modern world? Are you aware how many NEWS sources just repeat ONE story from ONE source? IF the initial source is considered valid enough, you will have dozens of other 'sources' paraphrasing and borrowing from it. That is how information gets spread plenty of time. In this case though, there are non biblical accounts from historians of the time which also make mention of events that happened in the bible and of Jesus. There is archaeology which also has uncovoered places and things mentioned in the bible. But I am sure the sources would not be 'legitimate' enough for anyone convinced that its all just stories and fairytales. Nothing worst then seeing a Deist (i'm assuming that's what Kleisto is) and a theists debating which representation of their God is truth. The whole point of personal belief, is just that, a personal belief, if whatever reason MH wants to believe what she so be it, just the same as Kleisto. The only problem comes when people on any side use there belief system and try to regulate it in the government, etc. For instance this whole prayer day in Texas, i can guarantee if Muslims wanted to hold a national Allah day, America would be a **** storm. As MH pointed out, i think it's a little redundant two people debating something of which both have no evidence for. the whole religion thread is usually about opinions for which people have no evidence for... just opinions and beliefs as for prayer day, anyone of any faith can 'pray', if its not a MANDATED observance, I really dont see the issue perhaps they should have called it 'national moment of reflection day', so it would be PC,, but that seems a bit long and unnecessary if the people of the state were cool with 'prayer day' Yes, it is wrong, once prayer and government is in the same sentence it is completely wrong. Now, if the Churches held a day of prayer in the Church so be it, as long as the government stay out of it i don't care what theists do. |
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why should I expect any realistic book to leave out anything but whats easy or pleasant or nice? I think we should expect more from a so called divine being. Some of the things the Bible God does are NOT divine acts, I don't care how you wanna justify them. If one is gonna claim God is better than we are, then said God damn well better act the part, otherwise it's just a human made to be a God. more of the teenagerish, 1.you arent the way I THINK you should be, so you arent worthy,,,, 2.you dont make sense to 'me' because you dont behave as I think you should and I am pretty brilliant about how you should act,,, No it's called using my head. Simple as that. I don't blindly accept things anymore. I think, I reason, and my logic tells me a God like that is not love. Bottom line. personal logic is subjective,,,as is personal bottom line I dont blindly accept blind questioning or suspicion,,my logic tells me a God like that is JUST as well as loving,,, Well you have been lied to. You may take offense at that, but that is the truth. The Bible God is nothing more than a human. I respect that is what you believe. Hopefully you can respect that its NOT what I believe. Neither of us has proof one way or the other of such existence of a 'lie' or absence of one,,, I have more proof than you do. How can God be a God of love, yet of hate? How can He be all forgiving and all merciful, but then let you die anyway without a chance to repent again? These things are NOT logical! what you have meets the standards of 'proof' for YOU How can man love and hate, feel joy and pain? these arent proof of any lie about God, that he has such capability... since he created us in his image it would be expected that we might share some quailities(not all, but some) The only proof you have, is in your book, if there was any legitimate proof that these people existed, why is it not found anywhere else?? One source does not proof make. Second, let's talk about creation for a second. It makes NO sense that God would make us with the capacity to act as we do, fully knowing ahead of time no less that we'd act as we do, and then still punish us anyway. NONE. If it's true, then God messed up and made us imperfect, which would mean he isn't perfect. He can't be perfect and yet make us wrong. No, if He made us this way, we were meant to be this way flat out. This alone disproves what Christianity says about God in and of itself. There is no way in the world that can make any good sense at all. This is one example of how this 'debate' has no concrete way to 'convince' either side. first, it is stated that there is NO 'legitimate' biblical evidence outside the bible(untrue) and then it is stated that ONE source isnt proof. How far do most people take this philosophy in the modern world? Are you aware how many NEWS sources just repeat ONE story from ONE source? IF the initial source is considered valid enough, you will have dozens of other 'sources' paraphrasing and borrowing from it. That is how information gets spread plenty of time. In this case though, there are non biblical accounts from historians of the time which also make mention of events that happened in the bible and of Jesus. There is archaeology which also has uncovoered places and things mentioned in the bible. But I am sure the sources would not be 'legitimate' enough for anyone convinced that its all just stories and fairytales. Nothing worst then seeing a Deist (i'm assuming that's what Kleisto is) and a theists debating which representation of their God is truth. The whole point of personal belief, is just that, a personal belief, if whatever reason MH wants to believe what she so be it, just the same as Kleisto. The only problem comes when people on any side use there belief system and try to regulate it in the government, etc. For instance this whole prayer day in Texas, i can guarantee if Muslims wanted to hold a national Allah day, America would be a **** storm. As MH pointed out, i think it's a little redundant two people debating something of which both have no evidence for. the whole religion thread is usually about opinions for which people have no evidence for... just opinions and beliefs as for prayer day, anyone of any faith can 'pray', if its not a MANDATED observance, I really dont see the issue perhaps they should have called it 'national moment of reflection day', so it would be PC,, but that seems a bit long and unnecessary if the people of the state were cool with 'prayer day' Yes, it is wrong, once prayer and government is in the same sentence it is completely wrong. Now, if the Churches held a day of prayer in the Church so be it, as long as the government stay out of it i don't care what theists do. I disagree. If government passes no LAW, than I dont see the issue. |
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Wait, so you think that it is complete alright for the government to condone prayer, so you would find it alright if the government condone worship the prophet Mohammed day? Making sure i get this right, before i jump out my window.
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Wait, so you think that it is complete alright for the government to condone prayer, so you would find it alright if the government condone worship the prophet Mohammed day? Making sure i get this right, before i jump out my window. yes, I find it completely alright for government to condone prayer, considering God and religion are not the same thing and prayer is considered 'an address (as a petition) to God or a god in word or thought ' ,, in a country where we have 'in God we trust' on our money, not mandating that anyone worship any God in particular or making any laws that anyone Believe in or worship God,,,, than condoning a persons choice to ADDRESS a GOD, is perfectly consistent |
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As long as there is strict separation of church and state it's fine.
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