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| Topic: Rise of atheism. | |
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What do you mean by spirituality (in your terms)? For lack of a better word to use, my spirituality is that there is an energy to life itself that interacts with it's surroundings and other life forms. When we die the energy joins the universal energy. Making us all the same at this level and making us responsible for what type of energy we choose to put out for others to have to deal with, either positive or negative. That is it in really simple form. It is kinda like karma in that I believe if we live negatively we bring negativity to ourselves. I see what you mean, wouldn't that fit more with some kind of naturalism? Spirituality to me is more religion lite (one can be atheist and spiritual though). Im posting about people giving consideration to the validity of the bible and of the existence of God
as opposed to the bible being brushed off by more and more as only fairytale,,,(as in nothing legitimate or relevant in it, not to be confused with a FABLE which still has a moral to learn) or to God being brushed off as no more real than Santa Claus,,, Wouldn't that undermine faith by definition. There is no evidence for the existence of God only what someone wishes to believe. And the validly of the Bible, if was valid would have been proven already. Not trying to argue religion, but any theologian can say that many of the stories in the Bible is pretty inane. As far as the fairy tale bit, i'm sure people who came to that conclusion have all right to regard as such, as i do, you seem pretty rational when it comes to not pushing your beliefs and staying to yourself, so i don't my thoughts on the Bible matter to you. I'm pretty sure you feel that other Gods are false, no different then how some people feel the Judeo-Christian God is in that regard. I feel there is one creator and that different cultures call him by different names as to undermining faith?...downright denial of something is at one end of a spectrum and downright insistance is at the other end faith is in the middle, , where I think most peoples beliefs lie on some level , regardless of their self proclaimed labels.... |
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doesnt matter, I didnt wish to get off topic whatever terms are used,, as a CHRISTIAN, It wont bother me if more people question or ask questions about religion/God/faith,,etc,,, it would bother me if more people started to insist upon living without giving thought or consideration to religion/God/Faith,,etc,, Why? It's their choice, who are you to say your beliefs are any better than theirs are, or that to be good is dependent at all on what they believe? of course its their choice, I didnt say otherwise its also a personal choice to commit suicide, or use drugs, or eat fast food every day that doesnt stop me from being able to worry about people who make such choices though Totally different things, the effects of those are OBVIOUS, this one is only assumed. You can assume till the cows come home that you know how God is, but what if you're wrong? IF Im wrong , then no harm done but I dont go on the assumption that I am wrong and if I am right, the mortal choices could affect the immortal consequences,,, But see that's the entire thing, it's a reigning by fear. Because the standard thing for non-believers is: "what if you're wrong", it's an easy way to excuse the atrocities of the religion by using the fear of being wrong and dying, going to hell, etc etc. In so doing, you project that fear onto them, but also onto yourself too, and make you worry about them more than you should. It's a big control game. |
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doesnt matter, I didnt wish to get off topic whatever terms are used,, as a CHRISTIAN, It wont bother me if more people question or ask questions about religion/God/faith,,etc,,, it would bother me if more people started to insist upon living without giving thought or consideration to religion/God/Faith,,etc,, Why? It's their choice, who are you to say your beliefs are any better than theirs are, or that to be good is dependent at all on what they believe? of course its their choice, I didnt say otherwise its also a personal choice to commit suicide, or use drugs, or eat fast food every day that doesnt stop me from being able to worry about people who make such choices though Totally different things, the effects of those are OBVIOUS, this one is only assumed. You can assume till the cows come home that you know how God is, but what if you're wrong? IF Im wrong , then no harm done but I dont go on the assumption that I am wrong and if I am right, the mortal choices could affect the immortal consequences,,, But see that's the entire thing, it's a reigning by fear. Because the standard thing for non-believers is: "what if you're wrong", it's an easy way to excuse the atrocities of the religion by using the fear of being wrong and dying, going to hell, etc etc. In so doing, you project that fear onto them, but also onto yourself too, and make you worry about them more than you should. It's a big control game. truly, if IM right, the fear is justified thats like saying , if I tell you that stealing in a certain arab country will result in your hand being cut off.. that may make you fear stealing so that you dont do it,,, but it may be that you already had the CONSCIENCE not to do it anyhow and it could be that in that arab country there is no such law but IF There is,, it would be well founded to be AWARE And possibly FEARFUL of the potential consequence of such a choice Fear is a survival mechanism, its not always bad,,,,sometimes its good to have fear/respect of consequences/ cognizance of cause and effect when making life choices,,, |
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Edited by
mykesorrel
on
Mon 07/18/11 10:30 PM
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doesnt matter, I didnt wish to get off topic whatever terms are used,, as a CHRISTIAN, It wont bother me if more people question or ask questions about religion/God/faith,,etc,,, it would bother me if more people started to insist upon living without giving thought or consideration to religion/God/Faith,,etc,, Why? It's their choice, who are you to say your beliefs are any better than theirs are, or that to be good is dependent at all on what they believe? of course its their choice, I didnt say otherwise its also a personal choice to commit suicide, or use drugs, or eat fast food every day that doesnt stop me from being able to worry about people who make such choices though Totally different things, the effects of those are OBVIOUS, this one is only assumed. You can assume till the cows come home that you know how God is, but what if you're wrong? IF Im wrong , then no harm done but I dont go on the assumption that I am wrong and if I am right, the mortal choices could affect the immortal consequences,,, But see that's the entire thing, it's a reigning by fear. Because the standard thing for non-believers is: "what if you're wrong", it's an easy way to excuse the atrocities of the religion by using the fear of being wrong and dying, going to hell, etc etc. In so doing, you project that fear onto them, but also onto yourself too, and make you worry about them more than you should. It's a big control game. truly, if IM right, the fear is justified thats like saying , if I tell you that stealing in a certain arab country will result in your hand being cut off.. that may make you fear stealing so that you dont do it,,, but it may be that you already had the CONSCIENCE not to do it anyhow and it could be that in that arab country there is no such law but IF There is,, it would be well founded to be AWARE And possibly FEARFUL of the potential consequence of such a choice Fear is a survival mechanism, its not always bad,,,,sometimes its good to have fear/respect of consequences/ cognizance of cause and effect when making life choices,,, I disagree with your first premise, we have evidence for people getting their heads chopped off and hands, nothing for hell. You're basically arguing for Pascals wager. What you fail to realize is anybody can be right and anyone can be wrong. You're basically adhering to your "right" and assuming that nothing can possible to you if you're wrong, when the Muslims can be right or any other religion for that matter. Fear is a mechanism only when the fear is real and apparent, most Christians use a fear based absolutely no evidence, it's is a coercion tactic. I look at it like this, all the major Abrahamic religions are the dominant, but besides Judaism being the least, its either you adhere to the religion or perish for eternity. |
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doesnt matter, I didnt wish to get off topic whatever terms are used,, as a CHRISTIAN, It wont bother me if more people question or ask questions about religion/God/faith,,etc,,, it would bother me if more people started to insist upon living without giving thought or consideration to religion/God/Faith,,etc,, Why? It's their choice, who are you to say your beliefs are any better than theirs are, or that to be good is dependent at all on what they believe? of course its their choice, I didnt say otherwise its also a personal choice to commit suicide, or use drugs, or eat fast food every day that doesnt stop me from being able to worry about people who make such choices though Totally different things, the effects of those are OBVIOUS, this one is only assumed. You can assume till the cows come home that you know how God is, but what if you're wrong? IF Im wrong , then no harm done but I dont go on the assumption that I am wrong and if I am right, the mortal choices could affect the immortal consequences,,, But see that's the entire thing, it's a reigning by fear. Because the standard thing for non-believers is: "what if you're wrong", it's an easy way to excuse the atrocities of the religion by using the fear of being wrong and dying, going to hell, etc etc. In so doing, you project that fear onto them, but also onto yourself too, and make you worry about them more than you should. It's a big control game. truly, if IM right, the fear is justified thats like saying , if I tell you that stealing in a certain arab country will result in your hand being cut off.. that may make you fear stealing so that you dont do it,,, but it may be that you already had the CONSCIENCE not to do it anyhow and it could be that in that arab country there is no such law but IF There is,, it would be well founded to be AWARE And possibly FEARFUL of the potential consequence of such a choice Fear is a survival mechanism, its not always bad,,,,sometimes its good to have fear/respect of consequences/ cognizance of cause and effect when making life choices,,, Yes, but a God of love is not gonna say in effect obey me or die. That is NOT love, no matter how you wanna twist it or argue it. |
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doesnt matter, I didnt wish to get off topic whatever terms are used,, as a CHRISTIAN, It wont bother me if more people question or ask questions about religion/God/faith,,etc,,, it would bother me if more people started to insist upon living without giving thought or consideration to religion/God/Faith,,etc,, Why? It's their choice, who are you to say your beliefs are any better than theirs are, or that to be good is dependent at all on what they believe? of course its their choice, I didnt say otherwise its also a personal choice to commit suicide, or use drugs, or eat fast food every day that doesnt stop me from being able to worry about people who make such choices though Totally different things, the effects of those are OBVIOUS, this one is only assumed. You can assume till the cows come home that you know how God is, but what if you're wrong? IF Im wrong , then no harm done but I dont go on the assumption that I am wrong and if I am right, the mortal choices could affect the immortal consequences,,, But see that's the entire thing, it's a reigning by fear. Because the standard thing for non-believers is: "what if you're wrong", it's an easy way to excuse the atrocities of the religion by using the fear of being wrong and dying, going to hell, etc etc. In so doing, you project that fear onto them, but also onto yourself too, and make you worry about them more than you should. It's a big control game. truly, if IM right, the fear is justified thats like saying , if I tell you that stealing in a certain arab country will result in your hand being cut off.. that may make you fear stealing so that you dont do it,,, but it may be that you already had the CONSCIENCE not to do it anyhow and it could be that in that arab country there is no such law but IF There is,, it would be well founded to be AWARE And possibly FEARFUL of the potential consequence of such a choice Fear is a survival mechanism, its not always bad,,,,sometimes its good to have fear/respect of consequences/ cognizance of cause and effect when making life choices,,, I disagree with your first premise, we have evidence for people getting their head chopped off and hands, nothing for hell. You're basically arguing for Pascals wager. What you fail to realize is anybody can be right and anyone can be wrong. You're basically adhering to your "right" and assuming that nothing can possible to you if you're wrong, when the Muslims can be right or any other religion for that matter. Fear is a mechanism only when the fear is real and apparent, most Christians use a fear based absolutely no evidence, it's is a coercion tactic. I look at it like this, all the major Abrahamic religions are the dominant, but besides Judaism being the least, its either you adhere to he religion or perish for eternity. Well said, that's my whole point, it's a way to twist their arms into believing as they're told, along with the reward for obedieance as well. |
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doesnt matter, I didnt wish to get off topic whatever terms are used,, as a CHRISTIAN, It wont bother me if more people question or ask questions about religion/God/faith,,etc,,, it would bother me if more people started to insist upon living without giving thought or consideration to religion/God/Faith,,etc,, Why? It's their choice, who are you to say your beliefs are any better than theirs are, or that to be good is dependent at all on what they believe? of course its their choice, I didnt say otherwise its also a personal choice to commit suicide, or use drugs, or eat fast food every day that doesnt stop me from being able to worry about people who make such choices though Totally different things, the effects of those are OBVIOUS, this one is only assumed. You can assume till the cows come home that you know how God is, but what if you're wrong? IF Im wrong , then no harm done but I dont go on the assumption that I am wrong and if I am right, the mortal choices could affect the immortal consequences,,, But see that's the entire thing, it's a reigning by fear. Because the standard thing for non-believers is: "what if you're wrong", it's an easy way to excuse the atrocities of the religion by using the fear of being wrong and dying, going to hell, etc etc. In so doing, you project that fear onto them, but also onto yourself too, and make you worry about them more than you should. It's a big control game. truly, if IM right, the fear is justified thats like saying , if I tell you that stealing in a certain arab country will result in your hand being cut off.. that may make you fear stealing so that you dont do it,,, but it may be that you already had the CONSCIENCE not to do it anyhow and it could be that in that arab country there is no such law but IF There is,, it would be well founded to be AWARE And possibly FEARFUL of the potential consequence of such a choice Fear is a survival mechanism, its not always bad,,,,sometimes its good to have fear/respect of consequences/ cognizance of cause and effect when making life choices,,, I disagree with your first premise, we have evidence for people getting their head chopped off and hands, nothing for hell. You're basically arguing for Pascals wager. What you fail to realize is anybody can be right and anyone can be wrong. You're basically adhering to your "right" and assuming that nothing can possible to you if you're wrong, when the Muslims can be right or any other religion for that matter. Fear is a mechanism only when the fear is real and apparent, most Christians use a fear based absolutely no evidence, it's is a coercion tactic. I look at it like this, all the major Abrahamic religions are the dominant, but besides Judaism being the least, its either you adhere to he religion or perish for eternity. it is still the same choice you have, either to believe it or don't... fear doesn't stop me from breaking laws, i simply have no urge too... religion is the same, you can live your life in fear of it, you can ignore it, or just do what you think is right and necessary... |
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What you might be referring to is anti-theism. Most atheists are agnostic atheist as i'm sure you know the meaning. I've heard 'agnostic atheist' to mean "people who lack a belief in a deity, who think that such knowledge is also not obtainable". I've also heard "agnostic atheist" to simply mean "people who lack a belief in a deity" (in other words, a 'weak' atheist). sorry but i can't buy off on your descriptions. firstly, what you describe as an 'agnostic atheist' is simply an agnostic. agnostics believe in nothing thinking that nothing, especially god, can be known. a weak atheist does not believe in god but does not rule out god as unknowable if evidence could be produced. Yes, you are right that some people also use those terms just as you say they do. And then there is also another group of people who confuse the matter by acting like 'agnostic' just means 'indecisive', rather than having a definite position that god is unknowable. But neither of those invalidates the usage in which 'theism' and 'gnosticism' are applied orthogonally. By some uses, there are 'agnostic theists' - people who hold that the factual existence of god is unknowable, and yet who still believe in god. This sounds like nonsense to those of us who wish our beliefs to match our assessments of what is true, but some people embrace the idea that their beliefs may differ from their knowledge. |
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MsHarmony wrote;
it seems as if agnostic theist and antitheist are two more terms which kind of confuse things more I'm responding to this out of context - I don't disagree with your desire to keep your posts direct and simple. Out of context, however: The reality is that the spectrum and diversity of actual beliefs held, and approaches to knowledge, is far greater than and of our sets of labels encompass. It may make things more confusing to use more terms, but being more precise may allow us to discuss this in ways that more closely match the realities of peoples beliefs. atheism ( literally NO GOD)
agnosticism (literally WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE) I like that you use the word "without" for agnosticism. Its the same prefix for atheism. Thus atheism is "without theism". |
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What you might be referring to is anti-theism. Most atheists are agnostic atheist as i'm sure you know the meaning. I've heard 'agnostic atheist' to mean "people who lack a belief in a deity, who think that such knowledge is also not obtainable". I've also heard "agnostic atheist" to simply mean "people who lack a belief in a deity" (in other words, a 'weak' atheist). Agnosticism is to know something or not know something. Atheism is lack of belief in any God(s) because there's no evidence of the contrary. Yes, atheism necessarily requires a lack of belief in a god. Minor bone to pick, but its a pet peeve of mine.... atheism doesn't require any particular reason for lacking a belief in a god. It could be exactly for the reasons you give, or it could be because you'd never heard the idea before, or because you don't even believe in your own existence, or because you have brain damage which prevents you from forming beliefs, or.... There are definite cultural trends amongst many atheists, and groups of atheists with shared dogmas; there are religious atheists, but the essence of atheism doesn't require any particular belief or even motivation for lacking belief. |
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doesnt matter, I didnt wish to get off topic whatever terms are used,, as a CHRISTIAN, It wont bother me if more people question or ask questions about religion/God/faith,,etc,,, it would bother me if more people started to insist upon living without giving thought or consideration to religion/God/Faith,,etc,, Why? It's their choice, who are you to say your beliefs are any better than theirs are, or that to be good is dependent at all on what they believe? of course its their choice, I didnt say otherwise its also a personal choice to commit suicide, or use drugs, or eat fast food every day that doesnt stop me from being able to worry about people who make such choices though Totally different things, the effects of those are OBVIOUS, this one is only assumed. You can assume till the cows come home that you know how God is, but what if you're wrong? IF Im wrong , then no harm done but I dont go on the assumption that I am wrong and if I am right, the mortal choices could affect the immortal consequences,,, But see that's the entire thing, it's a reigning by fear. Because the standard thing for non-believers is: "what if you're wrong", it's an easy way to excuse the atrocities of the religion by using the fear of being wrong and dying, going to hell, etc etc. In so doing, you project that fear onto them, but also onto yourself too, and make you worry about them more than you should. It's a big control game. truly, if IM right, the fear is justified thats like saying , if I tell you that stealing in a certain arab country will result in your hand being cut off.. that may make you fear stealing so that you dont do it,,, but it may be that you already had the CONSCIENCE not to do it anyhow and it could be that in that arab country there is no such law but IF There is,, it would be well founded to be AWARE And possibly FEARFUL of the potential consequence of such a choice Fear is a survival mechanism, its not always bad,,,,sometimes its good to have fear/respect of consequences/ cognizance of cause and effect when making life choices,,, Yes, but a God of love is not gonna say in effect obey me or die. That is NOT love, no matter how you wanna twist it or argue it. A God of love says 'follow me to ETERNAL life' |
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doesnt matter, I didnt wish to get off topic whatever terms are used,, as a CHRISTIAN, It wont bother me if more people question or ask questions about religion/God/faith,,etc,,, it would bother me if more people started to insist upon living without giving thought or consideration to religion/God/Faith,,etc,, Why? It's their choice, who are you to say your beliefs are any better than theirs are, or that to be good is dependent at all on what they believe? of course its their choice, I didnt say otherwise its also a personal choice to commit suicide, or use drugs, or eat fast food every day that doesnt stop me from being able to worry about people who make such choices though Totally different things, the effects of those are OBVIOUS, this one is only assumed. You can assume till the cows come home that you know how God is, but what if you're wrong? IF Im wrong , then no harm done but I dont go on the assumption that I am wrong and if I am right, the mortal choices could affect the immortal consequences,,, But see that's the entire thing, it's a reigning by fear. Because the standard thing for non-believers is: "what if you're wrong", it's an easy way to excuse the atrocities of the religion by using the fear of being wrong and dying, going to hell, etc etc. In so doing, you project that fear onto them, but also onto yourself too, and make you worry about them more than you should. It's a big control game. truly, if IM right, the fear is justified thats like saying , if I tell you that stealing in a certain arab country will result in your hand being cut off.. that may make you fear stealing so that you dont do it,,, but it may be that you already had the CONSCIENCE not to do it anyhow and it could be that in that arab country there is no such law but IF There is,, it would be well founded to be AWARE And possibly FEARFUL of the potential consequence of such a choice Fear is a survival mechanism, its not always bad,,,,sometimes its good to have fear/respect of consequences/ cognizance of cause and effect when making life choices,,, I disagree with your first premise, we have evidence for people getting their heads chopped off and hands, nothing for hell. You're basically arguing for Pascals wager. What you fail to realize is anybody can be right and anyone can be wrong. You're basically adhering to your "right" and assuming that nothing can possible to you if you're wrong, when the Muslims can be right or any other religion for that matter. Fear is a mechanism only when the fear is real and apparent, most Christians use a fear based absolutely no evidence, it's is a coercion tactic. I look at it like this, all the major Abrahamic religions are the dominant, but besides Judaism being the least, its either you adhere to the religion or perish for eternity. fear is always real and often not apparent even if someone had not seen proof THEMSELF or verified THEMSELF that thieves have their hands cut off,, if it was TRUE, it would be justified to be fearful of it before having to experience it oneself if it wasnt true, than that person would just have a pleasant surprise should they ever decide to steal,,,, religion is only a documented set of beliefs and values,, in the end the ones that matter will matter, whether you adhered to them because of a religion or whatever other reason the religion doesnt cause you to perish, the real consequences do religion just has the capacity to be correct or incorrect about the circumstances which bring about such consequences,,, |
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doesnt matter, I didnt wish to get off topic whatever terms are used,, as a CHRISTIAN, It wont bother me if more people question or ask questions about religion/God/faith,,etc,,, it would bother me if more people started to insist upon living without giving thought or consideration to religion/God/Faith,,etc,, Why? It's their choice, who are you to say your beliefs are any better than theirs are, or that to be good is dependent at all on what they believe? of course its their choice, I didnt say otherwise its also a personal choice to commit suicide, or use drugs, or eat fast food every day that doesnt stop me from being able to worry about people who make such choices though Totally different things, the effects of those are OBVIOUS, this one is only assumed. You can assume till the cows come home that you know how God is, but what if you're wrong? IF Im wrong , then no harm done but I dont go on the assumption that I am wrong and if I am right, the mortal choices could affect the immortal consequences,,, But see that's the entire thing, it's a reigning by fear. Because the standard thing for non-believers is: "what if you're wrong", it's an easy way to excuse the atrocities of the religion by using the fear of being wrong and dying, going to hell, etc etc. In so doing, you project that fear onto them, but also onto yourself too, and make you worry about them more than you should. It's a big control game. truly, if IM right, the fear is justified thats like saying , if I tell you that stealing in a certain arab country will result in your hand being cut off.. that may make you fear stealing so that you dont do it,,, but it may be that you already had the CONSCIENCE not to do it anyhow and it could be that in that arab country there is no such law but IF There is,, it would be well founded to be AWARE And possibly FEARFUL of the potential consequence of such a choice Fear is a survival mechanism, its not always bad,,,,sometimes its good to have fear/respect of consequences/ cognizance of cause and effect when making life choices,,, Yes, but a God of love is not gonna say in effect obey me or die. That is NOT love, no matter how you wanna twist it or argue it. A God of love says 'follow me to ETERNAL life' Nowhere in that statement is it implied that you will die or he will kill you if you don't do as you're told. I'm sorry, but you can keep a God like that that has such an ego complex that it demands worship and obediance. I'm happy with the God I have now. |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Mon 07/18/11 11:50 PM
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doesnt matter, I didnt wish to get off topic whatever terms are used,, as a CHRISTIAN, It wont bother me if more people question or ask questions about religion/God/faith,,etc,,, it would bother me if more people started to insist upon living without giving thought or consideration to religion/God/Faith,,etc,, Why? It's their choice, who are you to say your beliefs are any better than theirs are, or that to be good is dependent at all on what they believe? of course its their choice, I didnt say otherwise its also a personal choice to commit suicide, or use drugs, or eat fast food every day that doesnt stop me from being able to worry about people who make such choices though Totally different things, the effects of those are OBVIOUS, this one is only assumed. You can assume till the cows come home that you know how God is, but what if you're wrong? IF Im wrong , then no harm done but I dont go on the assumption that I am wrong and if I am right, the mortal choices could affect the immortal consequences,,, But see that's the entire thing, it's a reigning by fear. Because the standard thing for non-believers is: "what if you're wrong", it's an easy way to excuse the atrocities of the religion by using the fear of being wrong and dying, going to hell, etc etc. In so doing, you project that fear onto them, but also onto yourself too, and make you worry about them more than you should. It's a big control game. truly, if IM right, the fear is justified thats like saying , if I tell you that stealing in a certain arab country will result in your hand being cut off.. that may make you fear stealing so that you dont do it,,, but it may be that you already had the CONSCIENCE not to do it anyhow and it could be that in that arab country there is no such law but IF There is,, it would be well founded to be AWARE And possibly FEARFUL of the potential consequence of such a choice Fear is a survival mechanism, its not always bad,,,,sometimes its good to have fear/respect of consequences/ cognizance of cause and effect when making life choices,,, I disagree with your first premise, we have evidence for people getting their heads chopped off and hands, nothing for hell. You're basically arguing for Pascals wager. What you fail to realize is anybody can be right and anyone can be wrong. You're basically adhering to your "right" and assuming that nothing can possible to you if you're wrong, when the Muslims can be right or any other religion for that matter. Fear is a mechanism only when the fear is real and apparent, most Christians use a fear based absolutely no evidence, it's is a coercion tactic. I look at it like this, all the major Abrahamic religions are the dominant, but besides Judaism being the least, its either you adhere to the religion or perish for eternity. fear is always real and often not apparent even if someone had not seen proof THEMSELF or verified THEMSELF that thieves have their hands cut off,, if it was TRUE, it would be justified to be fearful of it before having to experience it oneself if it wasnt true, than that person would just have a pleasant surprise should they ever decide to steal,,,, religion is only a documented set of beliefs and values,, in the end the ones that matter will matter, whether you adhered to them because of a religion or whatever other reason the religion doesnt cause you to perish, the real consequences do religion just has the capacity to be correct or incorrect about the circumstances which bring about such consequences,,, The consequences only exist in the minds of the followers, they have no basis in reality whatsoever. The whole thing is based on the idea that certain people are so called chosen people, and the others just damned. There is not one good parent that would treat certain kids better than others on a whim like that. Not one. As such God wouldn't either, because if He would, He's no better than any of us if not worse. |
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doesnt matter, I didnt wish to get off topic whatever terms are used,, as a CHRISTIAN, It wont bother me if more people question or ask questions about religion/God/faith,,etc,,, it would bother me if more people started to insist upon living without giving thought or consideration to religion/God/Faith,,etc,, Why? It's their choice, who are you to say your beliefs are any better than theirs are, or that to be good is dependent at all on what they believe? of course its their choice, I didnt say otherwise its also a personal choice to commit suicide, or use drugs, or eat fast food every day that doesnt stop me from being able to worry about people who make such choices though Totally different things, the effects of those are OBVIOUS, this one is only assumed. You can assume till the cows come home that you know how God is, but what if you're wrong? IF Im wrong , then no harm done but I dont go on the assumption that I am wrong and if I am right, the mortal choices could affect the immortal consequences,,, But see that's the entire thing, it's a reigning by fear. Because the standard thing for non-believers is: "what if you're wrong", it's an easy way to excuse the atrocities of the religion by using the fear of being wrong and dying, going to hell, etc etc. In so doing, you project that fear onto them, but also onto yourself too, and make you worry about them more than you should. It's a big control game. truly, if IM right, the fear is justified thats like saying , if I tell you that stealing in a certain arab country will result in your hand being cut off.. that may make you fear stealing so that you dont do it,,, but it may be that you already had the CONSCIENCE not to do it anyhow and it could be that in that arab country there is no such law but IF There is,, it would be well founded to be AWARE And possibly FEARFUL of the potential consequence of such a choice Fear is a survival mechanism, its not always bad,,,,sometimes its good to have fear/respect of consequences/ cognizance of cause and effect when making life choices,,, Yes, but a God of love is not gonna say in effect obey me or die. That is NOT love, no matter how you wanna twist it or argue it. A God of love says 'follow me to ETERNAL life' Nowhere in that statement is it implied that you will die or he will kill you if you don't do as you're told. I'm sorry, but you can keep a God like that that has such an ego complex that it demands worship and obediance. I'm happy with the God I have now. as am I 
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Edited by
donthatoneguy
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Tue 07/19/11 12:03 AM
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Agnostic Antitheist, here. Its really wacky, but pretty simple. I despise organized religion and think all of its a load of $#it meant to control people (antitheist) and has done far more harm than good throughout the millennia. I do admit, however, that I do not, cannot and probably will not know for a fact that a God(s) exist, even if one popped in front of me and slapped me in the face, saying "I'm here, now what?" (agnostic, obviously)
Yeah, I'd still be skeptical because, not only would I wonder if it was just some advanced technology in use, but I don't see a God(s) who created the entirety of the universe could really ever care enough to bother if 6 billion people on this remote planet on the spiral arm of this one little galaxy out of billions of galaxies knew S/He was there or not. Edits: Typos! Weeeee, its late! |
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doesnt matter, I didnt wish to get off topic whatever terms are used,, as a CHRISTIAN, It wont bother me if more people question or ask questions about religion/God/faith,,etc,,, it would bother me if more people started to insist upon living without giving thought or consideration to religion/God/Faith,,etc,, Why? It's their choice, who are you to say your beliefs are any better than theirs are, or that to be good is dependent at all on what they believe? of course its their choice, I didnt say otherwise its also a personal choice to commit suicide, or use drugs, or eat fast food every day that doesnt stop me from being able to worry about people who make such choices though Totally different things, the effects of those are OBVIOUS, this one is only assumed. You can assume till the cows come home that you know how God is, but what if you're wrong? IF Im wrong , then no harm done but I dont go on the assumption that I am wrong and if I am right, the mortal choices could affect the immortal consequences,,, But see that's the entire thing, it's a reigning by fear. Because the standard thing for non-believers is: "what if you're wrong", it's an easy way to excuse the atrocities of the religion by using the fear of being wrong and dying, going to hell, etc etc. In so doing, you project that fear onto them, but also onto yourself too, and make you worry about them more than you should. It's a big control game. truly, if IM right, the fear is justified thats like saying , if I tell you that stealing in a certain arab country will result in your hand being cut off.. that may make you fear stealing so that you dont do it,,, but it may be that you already had the CONSCIENCE not to do it anyhow and it could be that in that arab country there is no such law but IF There is,, it would be well founded to be AWARE And possibly FEARFUL of the potential consequence of such a choice Fear is a survival mechanism, its not always bad,,,,sometimes its good to have fear/respect of consequences/ cognizance of cause and effect when making life choices,,, I disagree with your first premise, we have evidence for people getting their heads chopped off and hands, nothing for hell. You're basically arguing for Pascals wager. What you fail to realize is anybody can be right and anyone can be wrong. You're basically adhering to your "right" and assuming that nothing can possible to you if you're wrong, when the Muslims can be right or any other religion for that matter. Fear is a mechanism only when the fear is real and apparent, most Christians use a fear based absolutely no evidence, it's is a coercion tactic. I look at it like this, all the major Abrahamic religions are the dominant, but besides Judaism being the least, its either you adhere to the religion or perish for eternity. fear is always real and often not apparent even if someone had not seen proof THEMSELF or verified THEMSELF that thieves have their hands cut off,, if it was TRUE, it would be justified to be fearful of it before having to experience it oneself if it wasnt true, than that person would just have a pleasant surprise should they ever decide to steal,,,, religion is only a documented set of beliefs and values,, in the end the ones that matter will matter, whether you adhered to them because of a religion or whatever other reason the religion doesnt cause you to perish, the real consequences do religion just has the capacity to be correct or incorrect about the circumstances which bring about such consequences,,, The consequences only exist in the minds of the followers, they have no basis in reality whatsoever. The whole thing is based on the idea that certain people are so called chosen people, and the others just damned. There is not one good parent that would treat certain kids better than others on a whim like that. Not one. As such God wouldn't either, because if He would, He's no better than any of us if not worse. How do you know? How is it any more logical to INSIST that it cant be true or isnt true than it is to INSIST That it is? What if the 'whole' thing is actually the truth? Who says its on a whim? |
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Edited by
Kleisto
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Tue 07/19/11 12:09 AM
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doesnt matter, I didnt wish to get off topic whatever terms are used,, as a CHRISTIAN, It wont bother me if more people question or ask questions about religion/God/faith,,etc,,, it would bother me if more people started to insist upon living without giving thought or consideration to religion/God/Faith,,etc,, Why? It's their choice, who are you to say your beliefs are any better than theirs are, or that to be good is dependent at all on what they believe? of course its their choice, I didnt say otherwise its also a personal choice to commit suicide, or use drugs, or eat fast food every day that doesnt stop me from being able to worry about people who make such choices though Totally different things, the effects of those are OBVIOUS, this one is only assumed. You can assume till the cows come home that you know how God is, but what if you're wrong? IF Im wrong , then no harm done but I dont go on the assumption that I am wrong and if I am right, the mortal choices could affect the immortal consequences,,, But see that's the entire thing, it's a reigning by fear. Because the standard thing for non-believers is: "what if you're wrong", it's an easy way to excuse the atrocities of the religion by using the fear of being wrong and dying, going to hell, etc etc. In so doing, you project that fear onto them, but also onto yourself too, and make you worry about them more than you should. It's a big control game. truly, if IM right, the fear is justified thats like saying , if I tell you that stealing in a certain arab country will result in your hand being cut off.. that may make you fear stealing so that you dont do it,,, but it may be that you already had the CONSCIENCE not to do it anyhow and it could be that in that arab country there is no such law but IF There is,, it would be well founded to be AWARE And possibly FEARFUL of the potential consequence of such a choice Fear is a survival mechanism, its not always bad,,,,sometimes its good to have fear/respect of consequences/ cognizance of cause and effect when making life choices,,, I disagree with your first premise, we have evidence for people getting their heads chopped off and hands, nothing for hell. You're basically arguing for Pascals wager. What you fail to realize is anybody can be right and anyone can be wrong. You're basically adhering to your "right" and assuming that nothing can possible to you if you're wrong, when the Muslims can be right or any other religion for that matter. Fear is a mechanism only when the fear is real and apparent, most Christians use a fear based absolutely no evidence, it's is a coercion tactic. I look at it like this, all the major Abrahamic religions are the dominant, but besides Judaism being the least, its either you adhere to the religion or perish for eternity. fear is always real and often not apparent even if someone had not seen proof THEMSELF or verified THEMSELF that thieves have their hands cut off,, if it was TRUE, it would be justified to be fearful of it before having to experience it oneself if it wasnt true, than that person would just have a pleasant surprise should they ever decide to steal,,,, religion is only a documented set of beliefs and values,, in the end the ones that matter will matter, whether you adhered to them because of a religion or whatever other reason the religion doesnt cause you to perish, the real consequences do religion just has the capacity to be correct or incorrect about the circumstances which bring about such consequences,,, The consequences only exist in the minds of the followers, they have no basis in reality whatsoever. The whole thing is based on the idea that certain people are so called chosen people, and the others just damned. There is not one good parent that would treat certain kids better than others on a whim like that. Not one. As such God wouldn't either, because if He would, He's no better than any of us if not worse. How do you know? How is it any more logical to INSIST that it cant be true or isnt true than it is to INSIST That it is? What if the 'whole' thing is actually the truth? Who says its on a whim? How do I know? Simple, I USE MY HEAD. If my head cannot justify something no matter how hard I try, it simply cannot be true. That's about the easiest way to put it. Logically speaking things in religion simply don't add up. I'm not gonna try to make them add up if I can't. |
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doesnt matter, I didnt wish to get off topic whatever terms are used,, as a CHRISTIAN, It wont bother me if more people question or ask questions about religion/God/faith,,etc,,, it would bother me if more people started to insist upon living without giving thought or consideration to religion/God/Faith,,etc,, Why? It's their choice, who are you to say your beliefs are any better than theirs are, or that to be good is dependent at all on what they believe? of course its their choice, I didnt say otherwise its also a personal choice to commit suicide, or use drugs, or eat fast food every day that doesnt stop me from being able to worry about people who make such choices though Totally different things, the effects of those are OBVIOUS, this one is only assumed. You can assume till the cows come home that you know how God is, but what if you're wrong? IF Im wrong , then no harm done but I dont go on the assumption that I am wrong and if I am right, the mortal choices could affect the immortal consequences,,, But see that's the entire thing, it's a reigning by fear. Because the standard thing for non-believers is: "what if you're wrong", it's an easy way to excuse the atrocities of the religion by using the fear of being wrong and dying, going to hell, etc etc. In so doing, you project that fear onto them, but also onto yourself too, and make you worry about them more than you should. It's a big control game. truly, if IM right, the fear is justified thats like saying , if I tell you that stealing in a certain arab country will result in your hand being cut off.. that may make you fear stealing so that you dont do it,,, but it may be that you already had the CONSCIENCE not to do it anyhow and it could be that in that arab country there is no such law but IF There is,, it would be well founded to be AWARE And possibly FEARFUL of the potential consequence of such a choice Fear is a survival mechanism, its not always bad,,,,sometimes its good to have fear/respect of consequences/ cognizance of cause and effect when making life choices,,, I disagree with your first premise, we have evidence for people getting their heads chopped off and hands, nothing for hell. You're basically arguing for Pascals wager. What you fail to realize is anybody can be right and anyone can be wrong. You're basically adhering to your "right" and assuming that nothing can possible to you if you're wrong, when the Muslims can be right or any other religion for that matter. Fear is a mechanism only when the fear is real and apparent, most Christians use a fear based absolutely no evidence, it's is a coercion tactic. I look at it like this, all the major Abrahamic religions are the dominant, but besides Judaism being the least, its either you adhere to the religion or perish for eternity. fear is always real and often not apparent even if someone had not seen proof THEMSELF or verified THEMSELF that thieves have their hands cut off,, if it was TRUE, it would be justified to be fearful of it before having to experience it oneself if it wasnt true, than that person would just have a pleasant surprise should they ever decide to steal,,,, religion is only a documented set of beliefs and values,, in the end the ones that matter will matter, whether you adhered to them because of a religion or whatever other reason the religion doesnt cause you to perish, the real consequences do religion just has the capacity to be correct or incorrect about the circumstances which bring about such consequences,,, The consequences only exist in the minds of the followers, they have no basis in reality whatsoever. The whole thing is based on the idea that certain people are so called chosen people, and the others just damned. There is not one good parent that would treat certain kids better than others on a whim like that. Not one. As such God wouldn't either, because if He would, He's no better than any of us if not worse. How do you know? How is it any more logical to INSIST that it cant be true or isnt true than it is to INSIST That it is? What if the 'whole' thing is actually the truth? Who says its on a whim? How do I know? Simple I USE MY HEAD, and if my head cannot justify something no matter how hard I try, it simply cannot be true. That's about the easiest way to put it. Logically speaking things in religion simply don't add up. I'm not gonna try to make them add up if I can't. so , if it does JUSTIFY in someone elses mind, it simply IS True? so truth is subjective in the here and now, but reality will happen as it happens regardless of what we are convinced to be our 'truth' |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Tue 07/19/11 12:15 AM
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doesnt matter, I didnt wish to get off topic whatever terms are used,, as a CHRISTIAN, It wont bother me if more people question or ask questions about religion/God/faith,,etc,,, it would bother me if more people started to insist upon living without giving thought or consideration to religion/God/Faith,,etc,, Why? It's their choice, who are you to say your beliefs are any better than theirs are, or that to be good is dependent at all on what they believe? of course its their choice, I didnt say otherwise its also a personal choice to commit suicide, or use drugs, or eat fast food every day that doesnt stop me from being able to worry about people who make such choices though Totally different things, the effects of those are OBVIOUS, this one is only assumed. You can assume till the cows come home that you know how God is, but what if you're wrong? IF Im wrong , then no harm done but I dont go on the assumption that I am wrong and if I am right, the mortal choices could affect the immortal consequences,,, But see that's the entire thing, it's a reigning by fear. Because the standard thing for non-believers is: "what if you're wrong", it's an easy way to excuse the atrocities of the religion by using the fear of being wrong and dying, going to hell, etc etc. In so doing, you project that fear onto them, but also onto yourself too, and make you worry about them more than you should. It's a big control game. truly, if IM right, the fear is justified thats like saying , if I tell you that stealing in a certain arab country will result in your hand being cut off.. that may make you fear stealing so that you dont do it,,, but it may be that you already had the CONSCIENCE not to do it anyhow and it could be that in that arab country there is no such law but IF There is,, it would be well founded to be AWARE And possibly FEARFUL of the potential consequence of such a choice Fear is a survival mechanism, its not always bad,,,,sometimes its good to have fear/respect of consequences/ cognizance of cause and effect when making life choices,,, I disagree with your first premise, we have evidence for people getting their heads chopped off and hands, nothing for hell. You're basically arguing for Pascals wager. What you fail to realize is anybody can be right and anyone can be wrong. You're basically adhering to your "right" and assuming that nothing can possible to you if you're wrong, when the Muslims can be right or any other religion for that matter. Fear is a mechanism only when the fear is real and apparent, most Christians use a fear based absolutely no evidence, it's is a coercion tactic. I look at it like this, all the major Abrahamic religions are the dominant, but besides Judaism being the least, its either you adhere to the religion or perish for eternity. fear is always real and often not apparent even if someone had not seen proof THEMSELF or verified THEMSELF that thieves have their hands cut off,, if it was TRUE, it would be justified to be fearful of it before having to experience it oneself if it wasnt true, than that person would just have a pleasant surprise should they ever decide to steal,,,, religion is only a documented set of beliefs and values,, in the end the ones that matter will matter, whether you adhered to them because of a religion or whatever other reason the religion doesnt cause you to perish, the real consequences do religion just has the capacity to be correct or incorrect about the circumstances which bring about such consequences,,, The consequences only exist in the minds of the followers, they have no basis in reality whatsoever. The whole thing is based on the idea that certain people are so called chosen people, and the others just damned. There is not one good parent that would treat certain kids better than others on a whim like that. Not one. As such God wouldn't either, because if He would, He's no better than any of us if not worse. How do you know? How is it any more logical to INSIST that it cant be true or isnt true than it is to INSIST That it is? What if the 'whole' thing is actually the truth? Who says its on a whim? How do I know? Simple I USE MY HEAD, and if my head cannot justify something no matter how hard I try, it simply cannot be true. That's about the easiest way to put it. Logically speaking things in religion simply don't add up. I'm not gonna try to make them add up if I can't. so , if it does JUSTIFY in someone elses mind, it simply IS True? so truth is subjective in the here and now, but reality will happen as it happens regardless of what we are convinced to be our 'truth' To an extent yes. I think we all can know the truth or at least as much as we are able to grasp here in this life, but in order to know it we have to leave every preconceived notion of what we are told it is, at the door. Otherwise your judgment is gonna be clouded. This is why ideas like mine are hard for the religious to accept, because they see the world through the filter of their particular belief system, incapable of seeing anything beyond it. Their vision is impaired. You have to be able to see clearly to understand the truth. It's why a child is more likely to be able to see it than an adult, because their mind has yet to be warped by all the other ideas that exist out there in the world around them. But yes, no matter what you may believe here, the reality is we all go back to God in the end, just as we all come from God. |
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