What are you talking about? They both say the same thing two different ways.

1. God created sin IN THE LONG RUN.
2. God create THE POSSIBILITY OF SIN.

Sin is disobedience to God. So, God having a will created the possibility of sin as again sin is going against the will of God.

If we need this God's help then we weren't given the necessary attributes to do it ourselves.

Therefore, we could not be held responsible for having this deficiency.

This is one of the greatest flaws in these fables.

You can't have a creator creating creatures who are incapable of doing as he requests and then acting like it's THEIR FAULT for not being capable of doing as he requests.

That's an oxymoron.

This would be like a God who creates deficient beings, and then holds out a carrot of what HE refused to give them in the first place (i.e. the strength required to be like he demands).

And then blaming them for not having this strength.

Such a creator would be an exceedingly mean, cruel and heartless being.

There's no getting around it Cowboy. The religion you continue to proselytize on these forums may make sense to you somehow, but other people see through it like a plate glass window.

They can see that this has to be a man-made brainwashing scheme, for the very simple reason that no divine being could possibly be so cruel as to behave in the way this religion demands that this God must behave.

You simply can't have a God who "judges" people to be "sinners" whilst simultaneously proclaiming that people cannot even resist "sin" without this God's given STRENGTH.

That is the KEY issue right there.

That whole scenario demands that this God created men without the necessarily STRENGTH that would be required to face the trials and tribulations that this God puts them through.

It would be a God who creates WEAK creatures and then holds out his STRENGTH as a carrot for them to reach out for. And if they fail to reach out for it he BLAMES them for being WEAK!

Can you not see the circular atrocity of this archaic religious scam?

As a man made scam it makes perfect sense.

As a divine picture of a righteous loving God it makes absolutely no sense at all.

Therefore, it must be the former and not the latter.

That's the conclusion that more and more people are awaking to.

This God would need to be a seriously mean and cruel God in order for this religion to even work. But that flies in the face of what this God is supposed to be (i.e. it's supposed to be righteous, just, and loving).

The tenants of the religion simply don't match up with the character traits that the God is supposed to have.

Something's drastically wrong.

The answer is simple.

It's not the divine word of any God. It's just a man made mythology. And this is why it makes no sense.

Problems solved.

We're not particularly. We're judged on our relationship with God more or less. Notice it's a JUDGEMENT, not a sentencing.



So God is mean and cruel for wanting a relationship with you first and foremost? God is cruel and mean for making it where people have to go to him if they want a relationship and not just hand it out and get it thrown back in his face again?

Cowboy....the first homosexual act was when God used Adam to create Eve ...any form of human reproduction is considered to be a form of sex

Eve in reality is the love child of God and Adam

In the beginning there was Adam and Steve before there were Adam and Eve....can you guess who Steve was

What are you talking about?

How does Eve being made from Adam constitute homosexual? There was no "sexual" action involved.

all that matters is your claim that God created sin ....without sin the possiblilty of sin can not exist

Cowboy..you have a habit of always running to the dictionary....now run to the dictionary and look up human reproduction

God reproduced another human using a human...that's sex....and since both God and Adam are males...that's homosexual sex

Around and around we go, where we land, nobody knows. Sin again is going against God's will. So what you're saying "If God didn't have a will, we could not sin".

Abortion is the killing of a child before it leaves the womb....I'm pretty sure God perform some Abortions during "The Great Flood"

God didn't reproduce another human. God "created" a human being using another human.

I'm guessing it's safe to assume you don't know what sexual intercourse is? Not ment in any to be insulting, just seems that way. For "homosexual" to happen, there has to be "sex". God did not have sex with Adam to make Eve.

what I'm saying is it doesn't matter what you personally believe sin is...the debate is not about your definition of sin or what you or anyone believe sin is....the debate is about who created sin......and you already claim that God created sin

so is it possible for you to move the debate beyond the definition of sin?

if Jesus asked you to do it....would you?

God has "killed" no one.

God created a will. Sin is going against God's will. Sin again is not an object created. It is a word for disobedience to God.

Yes if Jesus asked me to do it, I would. If Jesus asked someone to do it and they did it would not be a sin for Jesus asked them to do it.

sex is reproduction....and that is what God used Adam to do to create Eve........God has sex in mysterious ways

If an all-powerful supreme being who can do anything he so desires is interested in having a relationship with me, he's more than free to contact me anytime he so desires.

And there is absolutely no excuse for him not to. After all, he's the all-powerful supreme being not me. He's the one who has the resources available to make such contact without fear of not hearing anything in return.

I've prayed the Christian God countless times throughout my life. I got no answer. Is he just being RUDE or what?

I wouldn't be so RUDE to him. I would at least acknowledge him if he contacted me. I might not be interested in what he has to offer, but I'd at least TALK with him about it. I would be so RUDE as to just ignore him completely.



Yes, such an all-powerful supreme being would indeed be mean and cruel for making it where people had to "go to him" whilst he plays eternal hide-and-seek and flatly REFUSES to acknowledge them when they do seek him out.

Yes, that is indeed cruel, mean, and RUDE.

I have never rejected the Biblical God in my entire life Cowboy.

On the contrary my door is WIDE OPEN to the creator of this universe. God is more then WELCOME to have a relationship with me anytime he/she/it so chooses. The WELCOME MAT is out, and has been out for my entire life.

This God would necessarily need to be 'rejecting' me. There is no way in heaven or hell that this God could claim that I was somehow rejecting him. He would have to LIE to make such a claim. But this God isn't supposed to be a liar Cowboy.

The very accusation that people who no longer believe in Christianity are "turning away from God" is the biggest LIE on Earth.

We have simply given up on the religion because it doesn't make any sense, and the God who is supposed to be so hard-up to have a relationship with us REFUSES to do so.

That in and of itself is just yet another oxymoron.

The God of Christianity would be a LIAR if he claimed that I rejected him. On the contrary, if there is any rejection going on in that relationship it would necessarily be the God rejecting me.

Period amen.

There is not two ways about that, Cowboy.

The WELCOME MAT is out and the DOOR IS WIDE open to this God Cowboy.

I'm not going to PRETEND to have a relationship with a God who doesn't participate in that relationship.

Yet this is apparently what you expect people to do. To PRETEND to have a relationship with a God when that God himself does not even exist at all.

No way Cowboy. If there were any truth to the God of Abraham, that God would have been rejecting me for decades. NOT the other way around.

So he can't be very interested in having a relationship with me.

A God who behaves so RUDELY toward people who had believed in him at one time, would have absolutely no right to complain that they "threw any offer for a relationship back in his face".

On the contrary, he would have been the one who rejected the offer to have a relationship.

Yes, absolutely, based on everything you claim about this God he most certainly would be totally cruel, mean, heartless, and basically nothing but a huge jerk.

Without a doubt.

If you think for one second that I never tried to have a relationship with this mythological God, you are grossly mistaken.

This religion is clearly FALSE.

It has to be. Because if there really did exist a God who was so focused on having relationships with people he would have jumped at the chance to have a relationship with me years ago.

The fact that this never happened is proof positive that there does not exist any God who has any desire to have a relationship with anyone.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

This God would have had to have flatly rejected the opportunity to have a relationship with me. So much for any God who is interested in relationships.

The proof is in the pudding.

Actions speak louder than fables.

Cowboy....after you drown someone...it means you killed them ......haven't you ever watched "Law and Order"

He doesn't.

Yes, that is a secular term. Death is not receiving the gift of eternal life from Jesus Christ, being refused entrance into the kingdom of God is death. Who can enter will not be known to that person until Judgement day, and that is yet to come.

wow I wonder what he left me in his Will....perhaps his kingdom...I will turn it into condos so everyone will have a nice place to live....or perhaps his super powers?....I would just make everyone a God...that should solve all the problems....

will - used to express desire, choice, willingness, consent, or in negative constructions refusal