Ah yes.......the double bind. Of course it's not you, it's me. Well you're absolutely wrong, I feel no guilt for leaving my old ways behind. I've never been freer than I am now. Simply trying to open your eyes, that's all.

I learned a lot of spiritual truths while I was in Eckankar but the cult itself was a collection of plagiarized writings. That does not mean the writings were not good ones, they were! But so much of the organization was a big fat con.

Did I "unlearn" what I learned? Nope. I tossed out the crap and kept the good stuff. I tossed out the cult itself.

There are some good lessons and some good truths in the Bible, but don't buy the whole cult lock stock and barrel.

I suppose I should have used a better term than unlearn. You don't unlearn I guess as much as reorganize what you have learned and it's relevance to you and your life.

You're right too, there are good lessons in the Bible, as well as other holy books, the error is in taking it all as truth.

My eyes are open.

There is absolutely nothing you can say that will make me change the direction of my faith.

Don't know why you are trying to convince me that I should. I am extraordinarily happy with what I have chosen. To tell the truth, I have never thought about the damnation you are referring to. It is nothing I think about because it has no bearing on why I am a Christian. So, I am not brainwashed or afraid not to be. I choose this life because I know my Lord and He knows me. I don't doubt my choice and never will.

It is not the "double bind" as you say. I am just responding to what I am hearing from you. What I hear is a man that is very bitter about his experience as a Christian and wants Christians to admit they are at fault for your bitterness. I have no idea what you have experienced but from all you have said, that is what I see in you.

It seems to me you are rebelling against Christianity. So you are choosing to be whatever you are because of Christian teachings as well. So aren't you bound in what you are doing by the same nature you are saying I am?

Kliesto....based on your experience with your church,

that you shared at an earlier time....

I would strongly say that

you left RELIGION behind.

NOt Relationship.



The whole of Christianity,

points one to Jesus....

Who is the WAY for us to get back into RELATIONSIP with God.


And if one wants to call christianity a religion....fine.....

but even so.......

Relationship back with God thru Jesus Christ,

is what Christianity is about.

Not just religion.


Now again...if one wants to call christinaity a religion,

fine then.

But Christianity still is the only religion that mentions a

Saviour..for the whole wide world.


Perhaps Relationship will become clearer to you at a later time,

Kliesto....

But is it an error if it is the Truth?

You say it is not for your reasons. I say it is for mine.

Actually unlearning is an excellent terminology. Things that become ingrained in us from say our parent teaching us young some unhealthy way to do something in life needs to be unlearned.

Quite a bit of the residual crap from our parents time needs to be unlearned in order to live a better life.

No not really, if you could make it make sense to me, I would believe it. But you can't because a good deal of the teachings are nonsensical to me now, to where nothing is going to make them make sense in short.

It's not truth though, I understand you have your beliefs but it does not make them correct.

I fully understand my relationship to God and God's relationship to me. The Bible has little to do with it.

Are you saying that previous generations were deluded and wrong and need to be discarded in our new enlightened world?

I can't simply because you don't want to hear it.

There is a lot that can't be ignored but you must be willing to listen to see it.

But you cannot prove it to be wrong. I believe it is the Truth.

You don't want to see it for what it is. That is your choice.

I can say the same for you, and you can't prove it right either.

Again, same for you too.

Well let's see, you've had blacks being treated as lesser than whites, women treated lesser than men, gays treated lesser than straights.......need I go on?

Yea, not all of it is garbage but lots of it is garbage that is not healthy for people of this day and age.

We are suppose to learn more and be smarter than the generations before us. It is suppose to be a cycle that never ends.

So yea unlearn the garbage and get some more current enlightenment from that old drudgery that hold us back.

Actually, you can say that but you're wrong.

I do listen and will take other things into consideration. I have yet to hear a good argument that I should abandon my faith because it is illogical.

I don't blindly defend my faith. My faith actually tells me to question everything. I do. Everything is to be measured and weighed.

You still believe the truth is the Bush administration is behind 9-11 and you want me to think you have the truth???

So our modern age of divorce is better than marriage is better than having a nuclear family?

New isn't always better.

That has nothing to do with this, though quite frankly I think you're as ignorant in politics as you are in religion.

Regardless though, you can't escape the reality of what is happening, be it in government or in churches.