I accept the "message" too, although the message I get and the message you get may not be the same message.

I see the same "message" in the teachings of Eastern Mysticism, as well as many other religions and spiritual philosophies and traditions.

When it comes to the "Christian orthodox view", I typically differ on the following points:

1. I don't accept that the Old Testament is an accurate description or contains the 'verbatim' ideals of God. I do accept that it may contain many spiritual truths, but I certainly don't accept every word of it as the verbatim word of God.

2. I don't accept the sacrificial lamb idea of Christianity. At least not in the sense that this was some sort of "payment" for the salvation of men that must be accepted on and individual basis. I can accept it in an extremely abstract sense. But not in a way that any Christian "fundamentalist" would accept, to be sure.

3. I have reasons to believe that Jesus (if such a man existed at all), was most likely a misunderstood Jewish Mahayana Buddhist Bodhisattva.

I only offer the above for the purpose of communicating how I view things and I don't expect anyone else to embrace my views as their own.

But YES, overall I'm in total agreement with the general moral teachings that the "main gospels" attribute to the man named Jesus. From my point of view they are the very same moral and spiritual teachings of various Eastern Mystical views.

What I don't accept is the Old Testament moral values, nor to I accept the writings of Paul, which constitutes about 75% of the New Testament and is often nothing more than dredging up things from the Old Testament which I've already renounced.

In conclusion, I don't need to believe that Jesus was the "only begotten son of God" in order to believe in a God.

In the Catholic Church, there was not long ago..(I hope they no longer exist)... a certain sect of Priests, (they are called the Jesuit priests)whose job it was to kill heretics.

Heretic

1.a professed believer who maintains religious opinions contrary to those accepted by his or her church or rejects doctrines prescribed by that church.
2.Roman Catholic Church . a baptized Roman Catholic who willfully and persistently rejects any article of faith.
3.anyone who does not conform to an established attitude, doctrine, or principle.

What a coincidence. That's what Christianity is about. Loving one another. Love thy neighbor as thyself. ALL the laws given to us have to do with love. No law is there to hurt one another, no law is there to better oneself. ALL the laws given to us is about loving others.

Abracadabra,
We agree on your first point. There are so many contradictions and just plain out heinous actions by a so called loving God that I have great difficulty with the Old Testament too.
As for your second point, I am in no way a fundamentalist. Like I say, I do not believe in a literal interpretation of the bible's every word.
Point three, I plead ignorance on. I do not know enough to comment on that.
See, we agree on a lot of things and I am always willing to learn new stuff.

This is not supported by the scriptures. Jesus has told us to turn the other cheek. Jesus fulfilled, finished the old laws which told us to judge. We are not to judge anyone anymore. Judge not less ye be judged.

Torah would have certainly SPARKED a whole new fresh version of this kind of superstition

It would?

We see today said the disiples did away with sacrafices. Yet the Temple still stood. When Yahshua said in 3 days I will destroy this Temple..ie sacrafices they wanted to kill him..He's nuts. But was he really speaking of 3 days now and then? Was the Temple destroyed when Yahshua rose from the dead? Did all sacraficing stop for the disciples? Acts says no it did not.. not untill we see the Temple destroyed ubtil around 30 years later.. I wonder if any prophets spoke of this also?

But we see Paul doing sacrafices because they upheld the Torah no doubt about it.

Acts 21:19-24
20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Master. And they said to him, "You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law; 21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22 What then? The assembly must certainly meet, for they will hear that you have come. 23 Therefore do what we tell you: We have four men who have taken a vow. 24 Take them and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads, and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law.
NKJV

These are believers informing Paul whats being said and he had to prove its a lie.

Does Paul here say Circumsion is even done away? no..

But this is what he does and does this fit what the chr-stians.. possibly what the Romans you speak of did as far as influence even to this day?

Pauls answer..


Acts 21:26-29

Then Paul took the men, and the next day, having been purified with them, entered the temple to announce the expiration of the days of purification, at which time an offering should be made for each one of them.

27 Now when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews from Asia, seeing him in the temple, stirred up the whole crowd and laid hands on him, 28 crying out, "Men of Israel, help! This is the man who teaches all men everywhere against the people, the law, and this place; and furthermore he also brought Greeks into the temple and has defiled this holy place." 29(For they had previously seen Trophimus the Ephesian with him in the city, whom they supposed that Paul had brought into the temple.)
NKJV

What Law was Paul following here.. Its clear in Num 6..

They though did not have a problem with paul doing this..the jewd that is.. but they thought he defiled it by bringing in Greeks.

This very act do you know what it lead to? the rest of Acts points directly to this act.


Acts 28:24-27
25 So when they did not agree among themselves, they departed after Paul had said one word: "The Holy Spirit spoke rightly through Isaiah the prophet to our fathers, 26 saying,

'Go to this people and say:
'Hearing you will hear, and shall not understand;
And seeing you will see, and not perceive;
27 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them."'
NKJV

What people did he go to?


Rom 1:7

7 To all who are in Rome, beloved of Yahweh, called to be saints:

Grace to you and peace from Yahweh our Father and Yahshua our Messiah.

He went to Rome over His Sacraficing in the Temple.

The Jews wanted him Dead but Paul had help he appealed he was a Roman Citizen and that fact kept him from being turned over to the Jews. instead he was given a Free ride to Rome as was Prophecied would happen.

Acts 25:7-12
When he had come, the Jews who had come down from Jerusalem stood about and laid many serious complaints against Paul, which they could not prove, 8 while he answered for himself,"Neither against the law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I offended in anything at all."

9 But Festus, wanting to do the Jews a favor, answered Paul and said,"Are you willing to go up to Jerusalem and there be judged before me concerning these things?"

10 So Paul said, "I stand at Caesar's judgment seat, where I ought to be judged. To the Jews I have done no wrong, as you very well know. 11 For if I am an offender, or have committed anything deserving of death, I do not object to dying; but if there is nothing in these things of which these men accuse me, no one can deliver me to them. I appeal to Caesar."

12 Then Festus, when he had conferred with the council, answered, "You have appealed to Caesar? To Caesar you shall go!"
NKJV

A secret code? If you want to call it that because see the Holy Spirit inspired this to not be understood untill our day as Daniel was told. When Knowledge would be increased.. Blessings of Shalom..Miles

I am not against God. For me, God equals Good.

I am against killing heretics, proclaimed witches, pagans, etc. I cannot speak positively about any religion (Catholic or whatever) that would ever, now or in the past, enforce their doctrine on anyone with the threat of death or the cry "Convert or die."

This includes the wars and killings depicted in the Bible supposedly ordered by any God.

Well I am not talking about scriptures Cowboy. I am talking about VERY RECENT HISTORY. I am talking about the history of the Catholic Church.

Well you can not "judge" what something teaches by people's actions. You have to go specifically to the source of the teachings. Yes the Roman Catholics did some nasty things. But that was on their own behalf. Nothing different from an atheist doing the same nasty things, for it is not supported by the religion they are claiming to abide by. So it wasn't the religion in itself that promoted such actions.

Milesoftheusa

And in my opinion whether you call this character Yahshua, Jesus, Joshua, etc. is irrelevant. I don't know what Bible you are reading, but you are coming from an religion I am not familiar with at all so most of what you say and post means very little to me. It all sounds like just another version of a contrived religion.

I didnt live back in the days. I have only historical documentation to put my faith in, however, it is as possible that some family CREATED the new testament to have some (future?) control over mankind as it is possible that no such family existed.


Its all a very interesting, and very POSSIBLE scenario though, being that we cant prove it one way or the other.

Id have to say , a family such as this must have been brilliant to go this long without any detection of fraud,,,and no evidence or 'confessions' historically of this having happened.

Jeannibean, he is reading the same Bible as you, just without all the lies and mistranslations...

If you read the New Testament, there are instruction about not being deceived and prophecy of many being deceived.

If it were totally fabricated, I don't believe any sane person would leave that in there.

I read from the very same bible that chr-stians do.

I will not use names given to Yahweh the father or Yahshua the son as he came in his fathers name.

John 5:43
43 I have come in My Father's name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive.
NKJV

Another name is JC. a son takes on his fathers name.. Yah the family name.

Yahshua Yahweh. like joe Smith and John Smith both poit to the Family name.

I can not help it this generation of Vipers refuse to hear Yahshua's words and prefer a name that is descriptive and a Terrible Insult to The Son of Yahweh..Blessings..Miles

I damn sure can! I can judge that if an organization, an organized religion or church no less, sanctions and carries out assassinations as a normal part of their function, that they are NOT GODLY PEOPLE. And I can sure as hell judge that they are wrong and should not be listened to or supported or trusted. Yes I can do that. Yes I have done that.



So it was on their own EVIL behalf. SO? They are not spokesmen for God. They are a power hungry, money hungry corporation that proclaims to be Godly. They, in my opinion are corrupt, dishonest and "evil" at the core. They supported Hitler and helped smuggle his henchmen out of Germany, and probably Hitler himself. Not that I'm going to take sides in that war, but if Hitler is to be considered a villain, then so should the Catholic Church be considered a villain.



Atheists have no religion. They don't have an organized corporation that goes around sanctioning assassinations.

This is the Prophecy of those who willingly ignore Yahshua's name and insult him with thier own.

Heb 10:26-31

For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of Yahweh underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says Yahweh. And again, "Yahweh will judge His people." 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living Elohim.
NKJV

This is why you see me use Elohim, Master, Messiah, Yahweh and Yahshua... Blessings..Miles

How can you judge the scriptures and or the belief by the catholics actions when their actions were not in sink with the scriptures?



Atheism is a religion all in it's own. EVERYONE has some form of belief in a god. Weather they BELIEVE there are no god's, or the BELIEVE there are gods. Atheists BELIEVE there are no gods. That is a belief in the category of gods.



This all might be true. But who are you to judge the entire category of Catholics from just a few doing as such? Do ALL Catholics behave as such? If not, you can NOT categorize that "Catholics" are evil, ect.

Well according to some Christians, Moses Law is no longer in effect after the new one came into effect. So why worry about the old laws??

Also the term "Elohim" is plural which means "Gods" There were more than one of those running around back then I suspect. They may have been "fearful" alien beings who were mistook for "Gods."

Know ye not that ye are gods and children of the most high?

Yes true. The laws of Moses was in the old covenant, which has been completed.