ps... and lookie now... you're "Quietman" LOL parents? smack away!

constant defiant behavior will eventually elicit a physical response. for those of you who do not think so i pose a question for you. You just found out your 10 year old son participated in the rape of a girl. what is your punishment for that? read the article it happens. Just wonder what the correct non-violent punishment would be for this situation. Or do you think we may want a physical punishment. I know there are a lot of people who would agree with physical punishment.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/2009/08/03/20090803liberia0804.html

Erm. I got a big surprise when my girlfriend told me in 1982 that her daughter (my age, around 28 at the time) was always loved and treated kindly.

Then in the nineteen-nineties the GF told me in self-righteous indignation that her daughter is telling her (the daughter's) therapist how hard a childhood she had had. My GF was very angry, because in her view her child had the most beautiful childhood of anyone on the globe.

Sometimes the grass looks greener on one's own side of the fence than how it really is.

I used to spank my mother, and if my father misbehaved, first I gave his head a good talking to, second warning was a slapping him into next Tuesday, and thirdly I would severely spank him.

What I'm trying to say is that spanking is very much a one-way only communication, and if I ever had a child, I'd respect him or her too much to abuse the situation of having immensely more physial strength than they. If I could not convince them with logical arguments and with the Socratic technique to go to sleep or to quiet down or to do their homework, then I'd keep telling my jokes to them until they begged for mercy and promised (and always kept this promise) to give me five dollars from their allowance if I stopped.

That's how I paid the mortgage off on my second wife's third blouse.

I have never spanked my children.

I was spanked as a child and while I do not suffer from that, my father and I were very close, I do remember the feeling of injustice I felt and how I wanted to be able to speak.

I was not one for sending my children to their rooms, because I believed that was their special place, where they could be private, they were to sit at the kitchen table and think about their actions.

Like my son called someone a TWAT once, when he was 12, that person came and told me, my son knew I would be cross and he went to my friends and told her what he had done.

She called me and told me he was there and then when he came home, he was walking up the drive, with his shoulders hunched over and my heart went out to him, he had called the person and apologised to them and he was feeling bad.

He came in and looked at me and asked me what his punishment was going to be and I told him that I think he had punished himself enough and did he understand why there are certain terms that are not to be used?

It was done and hitting him and being made at him, would have served nobody.

WOW, I don't spank per sae, put I do swat very firmly to get their attention, maybe even 5 swats depending on the severity and I made sure it did sting a little.
My step dad used to beat me with a belt until I was bleeding, he believed that if there was no blood, then it was not a spanking, roughly 20-30 licks, then a soaking in the tub. My arms, legs and butt got the attention most of the time, but when he was really mad, he would welt my back up pretty good too.

He tried it with my daughter and took her into the bathroom and locked the door so my mom couldn't stop him. luckily I walked in just as he was about to start hitting her with the belt, needless to say I went through the bathroom door and he got an arse whooping that night and is never allowed around my kids anymore...

If he did that, then I screwed up somewhere and he needs to face the consequences just like everyone else and go to jail...

I applaud all parents that have found ways to punish their child without spanking, but that doesn't work for all children.

I know time-outs didn't work with me or my sisters, but my mom also didn't get spanked very often. For the most part I was good, I had my moments but generally I was ok.

With my youngest sister I got tired of hearing the "she hasn't had her medication" or "her sister put her up to it". For most of her chilhood she never had to take responsibility for her actions. It was always someone elses fault or her meds. I love my sister but there are days when she makes me nuts.

Please don't take it the wrong way, I'm not saying that spanking is the only acceptable punishment, but it's also not the worst punishment.

As for the rape scenario, if my kid did that, spanking would not suffice. The law would be called and he/she would get the proper punishment.

one thing would be interesting to know is what type of punishment did this child receive to cause so much pain at a young age. i could see it go either way. I have dealt with kids who were spanked or worse at a drop of a hat. at the same time others who never had any discipline. I think finding what works for each child. Often those who judge other people forget that each child is different. I am reminded of a case i think it was on 20/20 but i might be wrong on that, where a foster parent beat a child to death. wouldn't have been as bad or made as much news if the foster parent wasn't employed by CPS.

It is funny that we often can handle our own children with ease but when we try to apply the same techniques to other children they do not always work. Often they can work in the opposite way at first.

please note: saying that i do not believe in corporal punishment (or any type of punishment) is NOT the same as saying i don't believe in discipline.

discipline is critical, and children thrive when they know what to expect.

i believe in rules, and clear expectations. consequences, positive and negative...structure...and the right to free thought.

and then there was the time when I was riding with my mom. I was prolly 10 or so.

She stopped at the gas station for gas and when she came out I was gone. She looked all over for me in a panic and finally found me on the other side of a cop's car. letting the air out of the tires. By the time she caught me the rear tire was flat and the front tire was almost

When we got home she went for a switch and I went up a tree

She just got one of the kitchen chairs and sat at the bottom of the tree waiting. My dad came home and just laughed at me and went in the house. By the time it started getting dark I figured anything was better than sitting in that stupid tree and came down to get my switching

some kids earn their spankings

right i agree that children thrive when they know what to expect. Some children thrive when they know they will receive corporal punishment when they step out of line. others don't. Each child is different and will respond differently. The point i was making even if you do not believe in physical discipline when you have a defiant child it will eventually come to physical confrontation. It may not be by you. could be by the police. could even be by neighborhood kids. it is the way society works. when people refuse to follow rules we will attempt to force them to comply. This usually begins with a physical confrontation.

I think your son must be a fine young man.

It seems that justice sometimes is much worse than injustice.

My father used to make me feel incredibly guilty over the smallest thing. I got spanked three times by him; not anger-produced spankings, but spankings with the strictest good will. I remember I was really scared the first time; and when the stick hit, I felt relieved for two very major reasons. First, the pain was tolerable, not at all horrible. Second, the pain, the spanking, the punishment dished out, all lead towards my ridding of my guilt, of my sins, of the badness in my conscience. In fact, the whole spanking ritual was more like cleansing. I felt like having just taken a metaphysical shower for my soul.

Of course I was not consciously aware of these theories, all I remember is that I always felt relieved and happy after my father spanked me.

Erm. If I consider the ending of your post only, the quoted part, then it's hard to make out if you're talking about prize fights or sexual contact sports.

Someone said the bible "Do not spare the Rod! That the rod may or may not be the Word "Rod" after all but Discipline with a strictness in a voice..

Here is some information about a Virgo Horoscope that Explains the Definition of what A rod may or may not be!

from Latin virgatus, 'made of twigs', from virgo, 'twig, switch, rod', which is of uncertain origin. It stands perhaps for *wiz-ga, from Indo-European base *weis-, 'to turn, twist', whence also Old English weoxian, 'to wipe'". Indo-European base *weis-, gives as derivatives: whisk, from Old English weoxian, 'to wipe', 'quick stroke, sweeping movement'.

I have seen this in other Dictionary words.

# Birch rod, made out of twigs from birch or other trees for corporal punishment
# Switch (rod), a piece of wood as used as a staff or for corporal punishment, or a bundle of such switches
Measuring rod, a kind of ruler
Rod (geometry), a straight and slender stick; a wand; a cylinder; hence, any slender bar


this is a article i had found! on the internet after reading the posts thought you all would find it interesting.... give us something to talk about, think about and determine is the Rod! what God said it was or gave the impression... and if so... did God know that it would turn into corporal punishment as i have hurd on this site against a child...

{For the ones that parents did not understand or was so frustrated in society that they listened to a cultural that was only about gaining control over the child to teach them "I am the boss"! I will say this! Parents are learning like anyone else, they listen to there parents, they do what others tell them to do, I am not justify for them. But when we have no control over are own self's how can we have control over are children!

I am sorry and Time dose heal a wound! But memories never leave the soul. I was ones told. YOU can get rid of the past by doing one thing letting it go! But to get rid of the Memories you must work hard to forget them or they will come back and haunt you at another time! Just let them go for today is a new day and be happy you made it this far!... the most strongest and weakest people everyone knows is the child who struggled during life, does it make us strong or weak? it all depends...

if the parent broke the SPRITE in the child or not! Once the spirit is broken there is no fixing!
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Spare the rod, spoil the child

"I wish that all fathers of households stand forth and practice their role. They will use the rod and not permit their children to go astray. Firmness is needed in your world that is filled with laxity, permissiveness, and degradation.

"Your children have been misled by many who shall answer to the Father. As teachers they have failed in their role. Therefore, as parents you must succeed in yours." - St. Joseph, March 18, 1973
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As the Bible tells us: "He who spareth the rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him correcteth him betimes" (Proverbs 13:24) and "Withhold not correction from a child: for if thou strike him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and deliver his soul from hell." (Proverbs 23:13-14)

So lets say as the man said! about the 10yr old boy who raped it is a excellent example why this was implicated in the first place.

Lets say this child, as a infant, when he called out to his mother she did not come to him! So the moment he cried she would come unglued and yell and scream at him!
Lets say that he is not 2 yrs of age and the child gets into things, and she is always taking her hand and spanking the child trying to teach him not to get into mommy's or daddy things,
by the time the child is 3yrs old, fully talking, now the child has learned to manipulation there words...

Children words can be a make or break on a parent for they do not understand children hear and repeat but get smacked and beaten for saying what daddy said 2 weeks ago not knowing time in space... or the gossip a mother did on the phone has come back to haunt her when her friends are over and the child repeats what mommy said about Susan yesterday. Children do not understand Words.. only play with how they sound in there voice.

This child just got there butts spanked not once but twice because the child only said what the parents said.

So lets say the little boy would repeat that daddy was cheating and mommy was having a a fair.. oppps.. the little boy learned that he gets in trouble for sex. at 3 yrs of age.

now we are going to raise this child..

The child is now 5 yrs old, learning about friends, and here is were it all goes wrong... in Kindergarten the child learns what Tom and mark and Paul and Kathy did yesterday go home and try everything but again the 5yr old boy is laughed at for his parents think it is funny, and cute.... but the child has just learned that what there friends do make there PARENTS HAPPY... We just taught are child to FOLLOW OTHER CHILDREN....

So the 10yr old child who FOLLOWED AND HELPED the other kids Rape a young girl was taught to follow the crowed! at 5 yrs old.
We did not teach him INDIVIDUALITY.

This is why I do not like Day cares at a early age because from the time the child is born at the age of 8 weeks old the infant is put in a class room of 6 to 8 children, by the time the child is a toddler they have learned to follow everyone else, to go along with, to do the same thing. and by the time school age starts there is no different for thy all went to the same childcare center, they all do the same thing every day the same way. it is only when they leave and go home is it different!

How to discipline this 10yr old after the Rape!
1. Counseling is very needed!
2. Empathy is was not taught. Do on to others as others do on to you! he dose not know that the child is going to hurt or feel anything for he has never felt the pain. This needs to be taught and you can do it constructively. Watching a glass fall consequences. is the Key.
3. Confession even though the parents of the child who was raped is furious... the boy needs to see the pain of the family and sit down and talk to them about the pain the suffering he put others though.
4. by putting him in JAIL.. he is now a convect at 10yrs old who will now be taught how to Disobey, listen to other children story's and place this image into his own mind. NOT COOL>>> no Juvenal hall it will destroy him before he is 11 yrs of age.
5. Having him do community work is good, to give back to make remorse to show his ethics and teach him if he dose wrong he has to do right for society. Biggest fault in Mankind. Make right with the Lord and your neighbors or friends, family members.. Make Peace!
6, he is 10yrs old have him write or record his Empty, I am so sorry......... so the little girls can feel that she has been redeemed from the situation that it was not done in vain! but sorrow and remorse.

This is what a 10yr old child who raped a little girl should go through... For at 10yrs old he is not a adult but only a child who is learning his Times x tables, learning how to read books, play a saxophone, and learning how to get along with friends with out getting into trouble.

Society allows TV that chirrups a mind, we have Cops, who shows young boys how to get away with a crime for they just saw everything the man did wrong next time they are going to be smarter.
We show sex and most do not shut this channel off. Kids are smart.
we show horror and death to kids who are not emotionally stable to handle it.
we most of all show cartoons that are Political and converse and yet the Person dose not consider anything but how to make money or a hit show, using images a child will abuse his parents, teachers, and women!.....

When we as United States of America stand together and fight for are children, is the only way this will change.. but if we do not want the responsibility to be better parents then we! will stay the same. While others will suffer as this little girl did. Amen
http://www.tldm.org/news6/child.discipline.htm

I personally feel that spanking, or using any form of physical punishment, is nothing more than an exhibition of a mentor who is grossly lacking in mentoring skills.

To punish a child physically, only shows that the parent is either too lazy or too busy with other things to take the time to properly mentor the child. Or they simply don’t know how properly mentor a child.

The latter is all too often the truth of the situation.

I was spanked occasionally as a child.

I don't spank my child. I believe in time-outs when they're young and consequences for their actions.

It's worked well for me.

just a question what would be worse spanking a child or using psychological abuse as a form a punishment? which would have worse of a long term effect? me personally if that was the two options i would rather have the physical. what about anyone else?

Neither are an option at my house.

Yep.Lori, you know I am on the same page as you on this one...

(and happy birthday old girl!)

Great way to teach children how to be bullies...by being one.