"imageorgiagirl" ..the bible in the beginning never mention anything about a Trinity and Jesus never preached about being in any Trinity

also God is supposedly a perfect being and if Jesus which you claim is one facet of God is not all-knowing or omniscient then this is a sign of imperfection which means that Jesus is not a God and clearly not on the same level as the father ...claiming that Jesus is God lessens God

those Christians that worship "The Trinity" in which Jesus is proclaim to be God is worshipping a false idol and according to the belief are destine for Hell

Funches...I repeatedly have said children go to heaven.

Repeatedly.

But When I see you twisting my words here.....

that is when I am done with this thread.

G'day.

Deut 6:3-9

3 Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as Yahweh your Elohim of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.

4 Hear, O Israel: Yahweh our Elohim is one Elohim:

5 And thou shalt love Yahweh your Elohim with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.

9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.
KJV


Mark 12:28-31

28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?

29 And Yahshua answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; Yahweh our Elohim is one Elohim:

30 And thou shalt love Yahweh your Elohim with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
KJV


Gal 3:20

20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but Yahweh is one .
KJV


Isa 63:10-11

10 But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit : therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.

11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?
KJV

Luke 11:13

13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
KJV

Eph 4:30

30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of Yahweh, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
KJV

You are not Yahweh. Yahshua was or is not Yahweh. The Spirit can be taken away from you.

If the Spirit was Yahweh then when you recieve it you would become a Elohim which is against the commandment of have no Elohim's before me.

We all do this. Even Yahshua being perfect said he did nothing except the father


John 5:19

19 Then answered Yahshua and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
KJV

John 5:30

30 I can of mine own self do nothing : as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
KJV

John 8:28
8 Then said Yahshua unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
KJV

2 Cor 13:8

8 For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth.
KJV


Yahshua could do nothing with out the father.

The comforter was sent that man could fight of the devil with zeal.

A Trinity Doctrine is a doctrine of Devils.

It says you are Elohim. What you say is always truth.

Yahweh is one. all others are under his commandments including Yahshua and the spirit realm. Blessings...Miles

This is coming from someone who grew up studying the bible in Lutheran grade School and I mean IN DEPTH!

You are definitely taking the BIBLE far too out of context. Fundamentalism is not a good thing. First of all you take it FAR too literally when a lot of it was allegorical or just history. Do you even realize that by your own words and acts you are condemning yourself and you are blindly going to go "over the bridge?"

Your inability to see past your own biblical nose is a sign your personal growth has stopped. Worst still is your strict interpretations and hard core values blind you to any possibility you are wrong about hell. In your own head you think that you are pious and we are sinners even if others are christian because they are not your flavor of Christian. A phrase comes to mind with your kind of thinking. "People like you crucified Christ." Heck, I bet if you had a dream you had to kill someone to save the rest of Humanity from itself you would "In the name of God." Your very dogma makes me think you would put on armor with a huge Blood Red cross on it, grab a sword, and kill Heathens in the name of God like a Knight Templer. So is killing in the name of God right as well as condemning non-believers to hell? What made you judge of the rest of us? What of "Judge not lest ye be judged in kind?"


What happened in your life that was so bad to drive you into this demented thinking? Do you honestly torture yourself like this all night? Time to put down the Bible. There is a lot more to life than a book written by a man. There are better things to think about rather than worrying that others are living sin filled lives. You have nothing on the Amish and I am sure if I dug hard enough I could find something in your life I could point my finger at you and call you a sinner and condemn you to hell but would that make ME a better person for it? My answer is no.

You sound like a fanatical head case the way you approach your faith. The bible was written by the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH and "Interpreted" to fulfill their needs. Had God written it we would have his copy of it somewhere which we don't, otherwise the Catholic Church would be showing it off! It is a history and story book and nothing more and to base you life so totally around any one thing means you have basically rooted yourself in barren ground. You are not going to grow any more as a person living in the shadow of a vengeful God. I would become a Satanic myself if I had to worship Your brand of God. You cannot teach hiding behind the fence of faith. You have to put down the righteousness and walk among the rest of us as one of us to make any point that does not come off as jaded, ignorant, hypocritical, or just plain dumb.

Did Jesus act like you? No, he sat in the temples talking to the Scribes and Pharisees. He was nothing like the church portrays him. He was a tradesman and a man of education. I would bet he and Mary (The one he saved although the bible isn't clear if it was the hooker or the other Mary) were bumping fugly behind the scenes but the idea of Jesus being a man along with its impurities makes you get all riled up insides doesn't it? Your savior has to be pure. He was the only one born without sin right? Just because his mother didn't get **** in her when she conceived? Medical fact, you don't have to have sex to get a woman pregnant and there have been other "virgin" births in our Past. Seminal contact with a woman's vaginal lips on the outside at the right time will result in a pregnancy.

Greek myth is full of "this god visiting this woman and this god begetting children of that woman," so am I supposed to worship Hercules because he is the son of a God?

Ya got a good heart but the way you present it shows you have a lot of personal baggage you are not admitting to and something is bothering you personally deeply and you think you have the answer and I bet somewhere the seeds of doubt are ripping you apart from the back of your mind. Whatever it is you cannot hide behind God or Jesus. That is the path to utter disappointment.

There is no answer to what lies in the great beyond. What if Buddhists and Hindi are right about reincarnation?? You are on the fast track to coming back a cockroach!

I want to come back as a sea gull so I can poop on cars!

"MorningSong" ...this is a debate which means just because you repeatedly say something doesn't make it true..sorry...but unfortunely just like the rest of us you are required to provide evidence to back up what you say ...or at least a little logic

also the question posed to you were about why God drown newborns and to justify that you indicated that he drown them because they were tainted by generational curses ...so I simly ask you what was these generational curses that also wouldn't apply to Noah since God didn't drown Noah and his family in the flood

of course you wouldn't been about to come up with anything especially if you know about "the curse of Ham" which became the generational curse that Noah placed upon his son and their decendents because Ham had sex with Noah's wife who was also Ham's own Mother

so this is why your generational curses theory would not justify God drowning newborns because everyone was wicked even Noah's family but yet God didn't drown them

which means according to your theory if newborns are tainted enough that God didn't think they was worth saving, then they were tainted enough to go to hell ...to God a baby would be nothing more than a soul and doesn't get any special consideration...it's up to the parents to immediatly save or baptize the child's soul in the name of God once it is born

"MorningSong" ..you should try reading the bible

I believe I agree by what is said about Hell.

But what he says about how Yahshua lived his life I do not.

How many times is it recorded when yahshua is speaking he is really teaching?

I believe all most all the time..Blessings...Miles

and I repeatedly said that not all children go to Heaven and some to Hell

so who's right...the one that repeatedly say it the most ....or the one that provide evidence

"MorningSong....evidence is our friend ...don't be scare try it sometimes

Wouldn't it be much more pleasant to not believe in a hell at all?

I mean if one erased the thought of a hell one could probably cope with life better. Hell is a fear tactic in my opinion.

I personally don't believe in a hell. I think ever since mankind has discovered the uses of fire and saw how it can burn a whole human body they came up with stories to fear the fire.

I want to see fire as one of the elements we can harness to our advantage if we can learn to respect it then to use it as a fear factor. Fire is dangerous if we don't be careful with it. Yes I agree and it can be hell if you are burned, yet I wouldn't treat it as a "hell" personally. It is your actions that created the hell. Hell is only an interpertation of your mind believing it to be so. If you don't believe in it then it doesn't exist. Own up to your own mistakes and responsiblities and don't use a religion document telling you otherwise.

So in the end if one wishes to bring in the additional stress of believing in such a tormented place of no existence then so be it. I am not stopping you, but I don't waste my efforts on it. I would rather hike up a mountain and see from the top of the mountain how beautiful our world is instead.

May the word "hell" have no place in our minds so we can live a more positive life on this world.

"andyBgood" ...er...I don't know how to tell you this but I'm not a fundalmentalist Christian or any type of Christian I only play one on television ..in fact I think they are all delusional

you assume that I was a fundie Christian because to be fair I can only debate by what's in the bible, for instance I can't dispute whats in the bible unless there is proof in the bible that disputes it that way I can't be accuse of bashing the belief

but didn't you notice how you attacked me personally when all I was doing was debating the Christian belief according to the bible

now that you know I'm not religious go back and read what you said about me in your post ...it will be so funny ...I got to let my brother read what you said about me ..he is going to trip

but anyway thanks because your post proves to the forum that I wasn't acting against Christians or trying to bash their beliefs but infact was trying to debate the bible accurately and that my intentions was to place these naughty Christians back on the path to true rightousness .....according to the bible

That is pure arrogance trying to correct others though. I am not attacking you. Maybe I misread a lot of what you are trying to say but you are too gripped by the bible as the focus to your arguments.

Trust me, had you tried to pull any of Thomas Aquinus on me I would have eaten you for lunch. All religion is misguidance to some degree. Scientiology is a Horrendous LIE and Christian Science is an oxymoron on the same level as Military Intelligence.

You cannot save people from themselves. They have to save themselves. You never clearly defined your personal beliefs. You say you are not a Christian but you are out to "correct" them? I think your approach failed or at least is generating undesired results. Beratement does not work.

Religion is a lot like Alcohol. Can YOU save an Alcoholic? NO. They have to save themselves. All you can do is try to illustrate where they are going wrong and use more than just the Bible to do it. I spent years dealing with others beliefs being hammered on me. That makes me hammer back. I do not want to change you or correct you but I am seeing you heading straight for the cliff and I am trying to help keep you from going over.

What do you know of Buddhism or its Philosophies? I am curious to know how educated you are in other faiths. I have studied just about all of them including cults and cult behavior myself.

"andyBgood" ... what's written in the bible was there 2,000 years before I came into existence, which means I didn't write the thing but merely in a forum debating it ...can you not grasp that simple concept ...

also to answer your question about Buddhism and other philosophies that you said that you have studied ...was the class you took called "Cult 101".... because that's what they all are

The thing is a lot of what you are saying is EXACTLY like what a Jehova's Witness or a Born Again Christian would say...

Like I also said a lot of what you have been saying was worded in a way that can be misinterpreted. I do not follow ANY religion so am I going to hell for that? I turned my back on Christianity and all forms of religion. I seek the truth and all of what is see is not the truth. I still am trying to find it. You speak in terms so flourished with biblical truth but my question to you is why are you trying to save people like this????? Isn't it the same failed approach as all organized religion?

Hell, the whole Christian, Jew, Islamic fight is brothers with common heritage killing each other over what? Stupid Fu*ken books and self righteous beliefs! if I had it my way I would nuke the whole middle east and wipe the Holy lands from the map to spare the rest of us the misery but in reality people need to learn to better them selves or the hate and misery will only go on!

"andyBgood" ...if you wish to nuke the middle east aren't you doing the same you are complaining about ...if appears you didn't leave the Christian religion before you developed the mentality that it's just easier to just kill everything instead of the challenge to change it ...you may still have some unresolved anger issues going on with the religion

I may view all religious people as being delusional but they are still people and I wouldn't want to see them suffer or die needlessly

Oh my God funches I can not believe you think this. God is perfect in flesh as Jesus, in Heaven as God, An as The Holy Spirit which makes up the good side to all things living.
I wish I could help you understand. My analogy of the different facets of you vs God's different facets or descriptions helped notta.
God in the flesh was more like us at the time actually and in our deminsion was limited pretty much (in a way)as we are in the flesh to the other demension.
Good God funches you know I was in that other demension briefly and it is very hard to explain it to someone else.
It is kinda' like never having sex but having someone explain what it is like to you. It's hard enough in today's language to describe. They did the best they could in the ancient languages to describe the wonder of it all.
Just like that you have the best experience when you've done it yourself. You know how great it was, can you describe it to me?

Does that help at all?

Matthew 28:18-20 (New International Version)

18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."


Father, Son and Holy Spirit mentioned

Miles you are so wrong Jesus was only teaching us how to treat each other and himself God while he was in flesh form because he loves us all so much he sent himself to us in flesh form to teach us how to love each other and him is all.

It is not 3 different dieties it is one God described in his differnt forms. Yahshua (Jesus) said he could do nothing with out the father to teach us that we all could do nothing without the father even though he is or was God in the flesh. Why else do you think he was without sin? Why else would he love us so much that he gave up his flesh life for us in more ways than just dying on the cross. He gave up a selfish life like most of us have, to teach us how to act and how to worship and love him.

It would be a perfect world without any truth or religion...ok. I want some of whateber you're on.

Well if you consider hell the truth then be my guest. I don't believe in a hell sorry.

I didn't mention anything about a perfect world, but do mention that we can alter our minds to think more positive of what could be when we pass away.

It is a choice you take in life. I choose not to believe in the bible's teachings for it doesn't do anything for me or many many people around the world.

Well I gotta' admit living in a fantasy can be nice but it doesn't last long...I wish there was no evil and no Hell but all I'm saying is evil exists whether you believe in it or not. God will only allow those souls to die a second death that are consumed with evil without remorse. Who wants a bunch of evil souls with us in the eternity?