Poetnartist wrote
“Or, are you saying, crocodiles are capable of evil?”

Evil is a religious concept. Evil is nothing more than anything that
displeases an egotistical god.

It is considered ‘evil’ if a human child is murdered by a human, but not
‘evil’ if that same child were eaten by a crocodile?

If that’s true then you are saying that evil has nothing to do with any
particular act, but rather it has solely to do with why the acts
occurred.

If I were going to use the term ‘evil’ for things that happen that I
don’t like, than I would have to use that term across the board. Not
only would crocodiles be capable of ‘evil’ but so would tornados, etc.

The whole concept of ‘evil’ is a human ideal. Humans have put this
ideal onto the idol gods their worship.

There is no such thing as ‘evil’ with respect to the universe. All
‘evil’ is subjective. To us it’s ‘evil’ when a crocodile eats our
child, but to the crocodile it’s just a wonderful meal.

There can be no ‘absolute evil’ the whole concept of ‘evil’ is
subjective.

No, we don't need to consume human children to be as animals. But many
hundreds of species of animal do consume their young. And many thousands
more consume the young of other species. We, ourselves, eat veal.

Many people call that wrong. And perhaps it is- I certainly find the
practice repulsive-. But how is it wrong of us to do it, and not wrong
of another species? Either we're better, and special rules apply to us,
or we're not- and it's no different if it's human or animal. None of you
"we're equal" folk have explained that disparity. I've asked repeatedly.

Yes, I'm not a fan of Darfor or the other events of human history. But
just because some members are monsters, one cannot hold the entire
species responsible. We're all individuals. We are not at fault for the
crimes of our fallen brethren.


And many species of animal kill for, if not sport, then at least for
fun. Most breeds of cat. Some of the larger reptiles. Many primate
species. In fact, almost all breeds of ape are herbivores. And almost
all of them are also known to kill if iritated. Or if they don't like
the tribe you're from. Chimpanzees have war- with weapons.



Isn't it obvious we're divine? Our spirits come from somewhere. Our
souls are the part of us capable of actual love. Of hope. Of concern for
beings other than ourself. The very fact that we find events like Darfor
horrific is BECAUSE of our soul.

The purpose of the soul, I can not possibly know in full. We're not
even sure what 95% of our brain does. How could we begin to classify-
not one, but two, parts of our being that are not parts of our flesh?
Minds and souls. What belongs to one etheric part of us.... and what
belongs to the other?

I don't think we can "take responsibility" for our souls. They're PART
of us. Can we take responsibility for our (natural) hair color? Our soul
is part of our nature. What that nature means exactly is.... well, I'm
one mortal man.... how could I possibly know. We can trust our souls to
decide what souls are supposed to decide. Just as we trust our bodies to
tell us when we're hungry or tired.... and we trust our minds to
remember and decide things for us.

I might add that there were many human civilizations that would
occasionally sacrifice their own children to their god. The Mayans were
one such civilization.

They would cut the heart out of a living child and offer it to their god
as a sacrifice. That was hardly considered to be an ‘evil’ thing to do
since they were doing it in the name of their god.

Ultimately the god of a religious society is the one who determines
whether or not something is ‘evil’.

Or to put that another way, the people who make up these religions are
the one’s who decide what will be considered to be ‘evil’.

None of that addresses your earlier statements at all...

Also,

Yes, we can learn it!
We learn to eat what we are given to us, or what we can hunt.
and, people HAVE eaten each other to survive. It's been done.

It is only whatis put into your head, and ben put into the minds of most
all peoples through evolution that it is not okay...

Another thing, some of us DO know something about what, and where of our
energy after death, and the possibilities during ife...

Very interesting.

Evil is a very real thing. Everything with a soul believes it is. We
invent laws. We punish offenders. We don't send animals to "correctional
facilities". We don't hold trials for rabid dogs.

We can commit evil because *we have choice*. We can CHOOSE to help. And
we can CHOOSE to harm. That's what makes us different than animals.
That's why we *can* be good or evil.


And are you saying you think there's no difference between the death
wrought by that kid in VA tech and a tornado? That's just nausiating to
imply.

what the hell?

would you make a pint, please?

Evil is a state of mind and though based on religion.

I believe is darkness and light...

black energies tend to be mischevous, and harmful.
There are no evil people. Just very horrible things.

Even Manson wsn't evil, he's just crazy as Jim jones was... it's the
followers and the techniques used...

Evil is a term to useto scare people. If this is a truth, then media is
evil.

Poetnartist
“Isn't it obvious we're divine? Our spirits come from somewhere. Our
souls are the part of us capable of actual love. Of hope. Of concern for
beings other than ourself. The very fact that we find events like Darfor
horrific is BECAUSE of our soul.”

There are so many incorrect assumptions in your above statement that it
would be futile to even attempt to address them all in posts on an
Internet.

Especially concerned your assumed semantics associated with words like
divine, spirit, and soul.

I can only say that I don’t see anything ‘obvious’ about your
conclusions at all. All I see is a very limited view of things. If a
person has a limited view of things those things may appear ‘obvious’ to
them, but that’s only because they haven’t open their minds to other
possibilities.

If a person limits themselves to a certain way of thinking, then
everything they conclude within that limited scope is going to appear to
be ‘obvious’ to them because they aren’t considering any other
possibilities.

Says the guy who thinks there's no difference between a mass murderer
and a natural disaster?

Speaking of which- if there's no "good" and "evil". No "right" and
"wrong" beyond empirical data.... why are we having this conversation?
Why do you bother speaking. If nothing matters, why do you choose to
continue to exist? It's not like it actually serves a purpose.

Poetnartist
“And are you saying you think there's no difference between the death
wrought by that kid in VA tech and a tornado? That's just nausiating to
imply.”

Absolutely.

And if you think that’s nauseating that’s only because of how you view
the world.

Does that mean that I ‘condone’ the murders? Of course not! But then
again I don’t ‘condone’ tornadoes either!

Are the feelings of horror, and loss any different in these two you
insist upon making an argument for?

And, I still fail to see anything coherent in your arguments, which seem
to me far off, and continuously questioning, and bordering on indignant
for the lack of understanding...

TLW - You seem to have, at least attempted to find some logic in your
faith. With your brief description you have brought together many loose
ends or the 'religious' puzzle.

"""human beings have body, soul, and spirit animals have body and soul
body is the physical vehicle that allows us to live.
soul is the energy that permits us move our body around this world
spirit is the energy that leads us to our Source or Creator (God or
whatever you wnat to call it)
we are all creatures from the same sources, however animals have no
conciousness about that. it does not mean that we are superior. It just
means that we have more responsability for the actions in our lifes."""

You have managed among all these poeple to link many fascets of your
beliefs. For that I have to commend you, you are thinking. I have to
take it a bit further.

Body - the physical being of an animal. OK, I'm good with this.

Soul - vehicle that allows us to live. Would this be equivalent to
saying the brain or at least that part of the brain that is intuitive,
that reflexivly keeps us alive, eat when hungry, hide or run when
threatened, breathe, in other words all those functions that the brain
contols without our conscious effort? Is this what soul is?

Spirit - energy that leads us to our Creator. I have some questions for
you but first let me say that from a religious, christian point of view,
with these three answeres you have shown the kind of 'proof' that
Rambill like to equate as science. That 'God in three persons' created
man in its image.

Here are my questions regarding these three things. If soul is really
just a part of the brain, than it how could it travel on after we die?
for it is connected to the body, is part of the body and serves no
purpose without the body. This is not conjecture, this is science.

So is soul and brain, rather that part of the brain that keeps us alive,
the same thing?

As for Spirit; it leads us to our source, or creator, do you mean after
death?
Truly it is not before, because any human that is not taught a
religion will not have any knowledger of a creator. Doesn't mean they
won't make up a religion, look at all the thousands or religions already
in existence.
Now if the spirit is what gives us conscience and thereby makes us
more responsible, than would we be anything to the creator other than
zookeepers?
No offence meant by the word zookeeper, just seems that, that would be
our only purpose in your thrilogy.
In your explanation you leave out any other purpose for the spirit to
abide with us as some "other" creature that simply infests our body, but
is not a part of it.
If the spirit continues to exists when we die, to go back to the
creator, does it return to another body, in order to continue our
subserviant nature as zookeepers? Is that our true purpose, to take
responsiblility for the care and continuence of this planet?

Poetnartist
“Says the guy who thinks there's no difference between a mass murderer
and a natural disaster?.”

There absolutely is no difference.

The fact that you are locked into believing that there is a difference
is precisely where you are at.

If you wish to stay in that box by my guest. I imagine that you most
likely will.

The difference is still in free will. How is my logic inconsistent?

We humans have choice, and in choice responsibility for our actions.
Animals, rocks, and weather formations lack that choice. And thus,
although we can lament the events, we can not condemn the act.


And if there's no such thing as responsibility, how could we function?

Crocodiles don’t have free will?

And who ever suggested that we shouldn’t have responsibility?

If ,all of a sudden, you discovered unequivocally there was no such
thing as a judgmental god, would that automatically mean that you are
totally free of ‘responsibility’?

Can you only imagine being responsible to a god?

What about being responsible to your brethren and the people you love?

Are you solely responsible ONLY because there is a judgmental god and
for no other reason?

Is the ONLY thing that’s stopping you from running out a murdering
people is because you believe in a god?

It that it?

Without a judgmental god life has absolutely no meaning to you?

If that’s the case then PLEASE continue to believe in your judgmental
god!

you've have once again skipped the meaning.

responsibility also goes toward to sayer...

many, MANY folks take NO responsibility for their actions and the
reactions as a consequence of... superiority, as was your opinion, has
nil to do with any of it.

If you look at some of the shows about nature, you,d see that other
animals have established a civilized enviroment, its the humans that
have created Kaos with the enviroment, do anyone wish to take credit for
that.

Mrs. Red:
I haven't at least attempted to find some logic on my faith. I have
actually found all the logic that makes me stand in my position and
faith so firmly.
Being said this I can answer ur questions.
The soul is just principle of physical movement. If you want to locate
it in the brain, I agree with you. I actually think that the soul rest
in the brain.
I believe soul does not travel after death, the soul of a person or an
animal just vanishes because it has fulfilled its purpose.
The spirit, however, must go back to its source after we die.
But in order to do that after death the spirit along the lifitime of the
person has to search for its creator in several ways. let me explain.
When I was conceived in my mom's womb my Creator put also my soul there.
In a way I was separated from him because before we were one. Therefore,
since that moment I started searching for him, trying yo go back to Him.
I didn't know that until I learnt things. Until I was conscious of my
condition of creature. My spirit give me this knowledge.
The my spirit make me search my creator in this world through my faith.
I learnt that my Creator is within my sisters and brothers. ANd the only
way to become closer to Him or Her (it does not really matter)is loving
my sisters and brothers specially those who are in special need
Therefore, when I die I'll be back to my creator.
Now u would ask what happen with those who don't do this kind of things.
Are they going to hell?
i believe that my Creator measure His creatures by their hearts, so
maybe ur actions are not right to the men, but ur heart is what counts.
Our spirit does not die with the body, it goes back to the Source, and
they become one again.

No, forget responsibility to ANY God. That judgement comes in the next
life.

It's responsibility in *this* world that we have to concern ourselves
with. Crocodiles don't have responsibility. They're animals. We do,
we're human.

Of course, if there's no "good" or "evil"- then how could their be
responsibility? If nothing is wrong, then no act is wrong. And thus, we
have no reason to feel remorse, no matter what the act.


If there's no difference between us and animals. Then there's no
difference between the Holocaust and a slaughterhouse. It's the genocide
of cows, after all. If all we are is animals, then killing us is like
killing an animal.


Or do you mourn for ever tree that falls in the woods. Do you feel
regret for every mosquito you swat or every ant you crush underfoot?

Or is everything just a bunch of atoms bouncing around from the
beginning (In the Beginning, there was Nothing.... and then, it blew up)
of existence to this moment? None more worthy of notice than the next.
And we're merely a chemical soup without any value at all. Just more of
the nameless sea of matter and energy flowing to its innevitable
conclusion.