gulp !!...I thought I cropped that picture better then that !!...re-gulp !!...lol...actually...I'm too poopped...to pop Josephine...

I dont understand that comment.

it's nothing I was just ... ...***whispering***..." creation "...

Alright well, you're a silly right wing conservative Christian I take it.

Yep, he's the opposite of this liberal Christian.

He just enjoys stirring things up with out actually saying anything of particular value.

it says that right on my business card... ...I just don't like arguing...when discussions head down that road...well...it's feet do your stuff !...

This thread has not even come close to argument. If you have a point to make, go ahead.

I agree with whatever Krimsa said

And when schools deny students the right to pray before eating lunch? Or to pray before or after school, on school property?

Both of these things have been attempted, and are examples of government trying to restrict the free exercise of religion.

Why can't kids just pray at home, go to church with their parents and leave public schools to their way. It's public schools were are talking about, no?

When would we find time to study if every faith had to get their prayers in at school. To me to push prayer in school is just pushing someones faith on other kids in school.

Muslims pray 5 times a day so what? kids have to stop their studies for the Muslim kids? What is this a club for religions or a school for education.

It's public school, take religion out of it. You want your kids to have religion in school then put them in religious schools like my parents did unfortunately.

If only they knew what a waste of money that was for the religious part of it. They could have supported better education in public school and just forced me to bible school on Saturday or Sunday.. oh wait they did that too, so I was saturated with the stuff..argh!

This breaks down to religion forcing themselves on everyone else.

I think most everyone agrees that the USA was not intended to be a theocracy.

However, to claim that the foundation of the US has nothing to do with christian beliefs is to ignore the many references to God in our founding documents, including the Declaration of Independence.

Even the most logical person is still an emotional being, and thus influenced by their culture, religion, spiritual beliefs, and so forth. To demand that people should vote without any influence from their religious beliefs is asking more than people can achieve.

I am confident that our founding fathers were aware that people can not vote without the influence of their beliefs, and that is one of the reasons that they feared the tyranny of the majority and wrote so many restrictions on the power of government.

By restricting the federal government's power, the constitution is designed to help avoid bad laws being created in the passion of the moment. That includes laws that favor one set of religious beliefs or endorse a specific religion. But they did not claim people should not vote for laws based upon their moral code (be that religious or spiritual).

In some school districts in eastern Michigan, the classes stop for muslim prayers throughout the day, and have added assort special provisions for their islamic students.

That goes far beyond allowing students the freedom to say a prayer at lunch, before school, or after school, yet there have not been any lawsuits against the schools for their openness to muslim needs.

The 1796 treaty with Tripoli states that the United States was "in no sense founded on the Christian religion" This was not an idle statement, meant to satisfy muslims-- they believed it and meant it. This treaty was written under the presidency of George Washington and signed under the presidency of John Adams.

None of the Founding Fathers were atheists. Most of the Founders were Deists, which is to say they thought the universe had a creator, but that he does not concern himself with the daily lives of humans, and does not directly communicate with humans, either by revelation or by sacred books. They spoke often of God, (Nature's God or the God of Nature), but this was not the God of the bible. They did not deny that there was a person called Jesus, and praised him for his benevolent teachings, but they flatly denied his divinity. Some people speculate that if Charles Darwin had lived a century earlier, the Founding Fathers would have had a basis for accepting naturalistic origins of life, and they would have been atheists. Most of them were stoutly opposed to the bible, and the teachings of Christianity in particular.

Yes, there were Christian men among the Founders. Just as Congress removed Thomas Jefferson's words that condemned the practice of slavery in the colonies, they also altered his wording regarding equal rights.

His original wording is here:

"All men are created equal and independent. From that equal creation they derive rights inherent and inalienable."

Congress changed that phrase, increasing its religious overtones:

"All men are created equal. They are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights."

But we are not governed by the Declaration of Independence-- it is a historical document, not a constitutional one.

If the Christian Right Extremists wish to return this country to its beginnings, so be it... because it was a climate of Freethought. The Founders were students of the European Enlightenment. Half a century after the establishment of the United States, clergymen complained that no president up to that date had been a Christian. In a sermon that was reported in newspapers, Episcopal minister Bird Wilson of Albany, New York, protested in October 1831: "Among all our presidents from Washington downward, not one was a professor of religion, at least not of more than Unitarianism." The attitude of the age was one of enlightened reason, tolerance, and free thought. The Founding Fathers would turn in their graves if the Christian Extremists had their way with this country.

Consider this: IF indeed the members of the First Continental Congress were all bible-believing, "God-fearing" men, would there ever have been a revolution at all?

Is it a public school? Then I can only say that you get what you wish for. Christians wanted to push for christian prayer and now your forced to deal with Muslim prayer. It's all wrong in my book if it is a public school. It's bad enough that public schools are failing in their education with out adding one after another's religion to the day.. geez

And when schools deny students the right to pray before eating lunch? Or to pray before or after school, on school property?

Both of these things have been attempted, and are examples of government trying to restrict the free exercise of religion.




With respects, when was the last time you were in a public school lunch room? From daily personal experience I can tell you that staffs are not seeking out students who are praying. There are far more serious issues that educators and support staff are dealing with.

The staff is usually praying no one kills anybody.

Thanks for the laugh break..

anytime lol

If someone wants to utter a silent prayer to themselves, whats the harm. There is no reason to have a specific "prayer time" in public, state funded schools because then you are singling out Christianity and giving it a place of privilege.