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| Topic: White Fright | |
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Wow, you don't honestly think that rules should be provided to specific groups to make them "equal" do you? Forget the groups. As a leader think of everyone as "people". The "People" have their rights in accordance to the constitution... End of statement. If you want to end racism, stop separating the groups, and start educating people. The higher the education everyone has, the less "groups" you will have. Education is the key to end ignorance...  There are already rules to "make groups equal". They are called laws.
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I know of no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them but to inform their discretion.
-Thomas Jefferson Loosly put you can use this to back up what i am saying. No special liberties go to anybody. Everyone should be treated the same as we are all of the same race. The tendency of society to seperate each other into groups could be remedied through education... |
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Wow, you don't honestly think that rules should be provided to specific groups to make them "equal" do you? Forget the groups. As a leader think of everyone as "people". The "People" have their rights in accordance to the constitution... End of statement. If you want to end racism, stop separating the groups, and start educating people. The higher the education everyone has, the less "groups" you will have. Education is the key to end ignorance... There are already rules to "make groups equal". They are called laws.
Right... So what's the problem then? |
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I know of no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them but to inform their discretion. -Thomas Jefferson Loosly put you can use this to back up what i am saying. No special liberties go to anybody. Everyone should be treated the same as we are all of the same race. The tendency of society to seperate each other into groups could be remedied through education...  Thats exactly whats being done my friend. What do you think Sociology is? And the primary in-group DOES have special liberties. Thats why its the primary in-group. Its the same in every society. This is why the information is felt to be threatening,because the members of the primary in-group in our society don't want to advertise the fact that they enjoy special liberties, lest they lose them. (Which they wont).
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Wow, you don't honestly think that rules should be provided to specific groups to make them "equal" do you? Forget the groups. As a leader think of everyone as "people". The "People" have their rights in accordance to the constitution... End of statement. If you want to end racism, stop separating the groups, and start educating people. The higher the education everyone has, the less "groups" you will have. Education is the key to end ignorance... There are already rules to "make groups equal". They are called laws.
Right... So what's the problem then? Exactly. Whats the problem with gathering this information?
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Wow, you don't honestly think that rules should be provided to specific groups to make them "equal" do you? Forget the groups. As a leader think of everyone as "people". The "People" have their rights in accordance to the constitution... End of statement. If you want to end racism, stop separating the groups, and start educating people. The higher the education everyone has, the less "groups" you will have. Education is the key to end ignorance... There are already rules to "make groups equal". They are called laws.
Right... So what's the problem then? Exactly. Whats the problem with gathering this information?
What information? |
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Wow, you don't honestly think that rules should be provided to specific groups to make them "equal" do you? Forget the groups. As a leader think of everyone as "people". The "People" have their rights in accordance to the constitution... End of statement. If you want to end racism, stop separating the groups, and start educating people. The higher the education everyone has, the less "groups" you will have. Education is the key to end ignorance... There are already rules to "make groups equal". They are called laws.
Right... So what's the problem then? Exactly. Whats the problem with gathering this information?
What information?  We (this thread) got on this whole sociology tangent because I was explaining the reasons why our society(and others) asks people what their race (ethnicity) is on official documentation. Its for the purpose of gathering accurate sociological data on the various groups that make up a society.
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Social science... Running our country... As long as they place us in catagories... There will be pre-judge-udice... It is a false concept... When you live in a community you live as that community lives... It begins to not matter that the people next door are different... Cause you know them... and the people in the next city are strangers... while the people next door are someone you BBQ with. Skin color soon pales to its rightfull place... another rose in the garden.  You got it backwards.Humans organize themselves naturally into groups.And in a society there are in-groups and out-groups.This information is used to determine the specific data required for sociological analysis of these various groups. Suppressing this information would be akin to a man putting out his own eyes because he doesnt like what he sees.Information is neutral.
When I studied MacroEconomics this information was used to catagorize groups to target for sales of products, politically targeted messages, population control and other ne-O-Farious camel dung... Suppressing this information would amount to NOT allowing those that can afford to database such information control over our lives... Spin comes from all sides. |
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Edited by
MirrorMirror
on
Tue 10/14/08 05:43 PM
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Social science... Running our country... As long as they place us in catagories... There will be pre-judge-udice... It is a false concept... When you live in a community you live as that community lives... It begins to not matter that the people next door are different... Cause you know them... and the people in the next city are strangers... while the people next door are someone you BBQ with. Skin color soon pales to its rightfull place... another rose in the garden. You got it backwards.Humans organize themselves naturally into groups.And in a society there are in-groups and out-groups.This information is used to determine the specific data required for sociological analysis of these various groups. Suppressing this information would be akin to a man putting out his own eyes because he doesnt like what he sees.Information is neutral.
When I studied MacroEconomics this information was used to catagorize groups to target for sales of products, politically targeted messages, population control and other ne-O-Farious camel dung... Suppressing this information would amount to NOT allowing those that can afford to database such information control over our lives... Spin comes from all sides. Sociologists need this information.What your proposing would be like making free speech illegal so you can stop people from lying.Or like telling Gallileo or Copernicus not study the heavens because you dont want people knowing that the earth revolves around the sun.It would be a "see no evil" "hear no evil" approach to science.We dont stop gathering information just because a group of people dont like what that information is. If we dont gather this data ,then all we would have to base our conclusions on would be "spin".
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it's like I said, when I brought up the word equal, it became about some people being treated special. That make no sense how can thing be equal if some are getting more.
One of my favorite all time lines is by Voltaire "In the best of possible worlds," Everyone would get a good and equal education for all citizens. We as a nation would switch our focus from individual material gain and think about how much more we could be if all our children could reach their full potential. Maybe the best thing to do would to blind ourselves since we are so obsessed with our external appearance. |
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Social science... Running our country... As long as they place us in catagories... There will be pre-judge-udice... It is a false concept... When you live in a community you live as that community lives... It begins to not matter that the people next door are different... Cause you know them... and the people in the next city are strangers... while the people next door are someone you BBQ with. Skin color soon pales to its rightfull place... another rose in the garden. You got it backwards.Humans organize themselves naturally into groups.And in a society there are in-groups and out-groups.This information is used to determine the specific data required for sociological analysis of these various groups. Suppressing this information would be akin to a man putting out his own eyes because he doesnt like what he sees.Information is neutral.
When I studied MacroEconomics this information was used to catagorize groups to target for sales of products, politically targeted messages, population control and other ne-O-Farious camel dung... Suppressing this information would amount to NOT allowing those that can afford to database such information control over our lives... Spin comes from all sides. Sociologists need this information.What your proposing would be like making free speech illegal so you can stop people from lying.Or like telling Gallileo or Copernicus not study the heavens because you dont want people knowing that the earth revolves around the sun.It would be a "see no evil" "hear no evil" approach to science.We dont stop gathering information just because a group of people dont like what that information is. If we dont gather this data ,then all we would have to base our conclusions on would be "spin".
Unfortunate that those who can afford to will use this information FOR spin. An example... Try this. put together a series of questions (5 simple questions will do). Make two lists one with the questions slanted to get a certain answer and one with the same questions slanted to get a different answer. If you then ask those 5 questions of 3 groups... One the original 5 questions, one the left slanted questions, and one group the right slanted questions... Your poll will reflect the results that are to be expected by the slant of the questions. that poll can then be used to influence others that have never even seen the questions by simply repeating the result from which ever slant you wish to influence pee-ple into believing. It is a science with formulas and empricial data. |
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but you can't slant data about race, age, education etc...
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but you can't slant data about race, age, education etc... You have a point... but you can slant your conclusions. My conclusions bout race got rocked the day I met my first wife. The got rocked even more when my grandson was born. You see... He is way special and their ain't no way anyone could convince me that ANY part of him ain't special. Which led me to believe that we are all special. |
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Social science... Running our country... As long as they place us in catagories... There will be pre-judge-udice... It is a false concept... When you live in a community you live as that community lives... It begins to not matter that the people next door are different... Cause you know them... and the people in the next city are strangers... while the people next door are someone you BBQ with. Skin color soon pales to its rightfull place... another rose in the garden. You got it backwards.Humans organize themselves naturally into groups.And in a society there are in-groups and out-groups.This information is used to determine the specific data required for sociological analysis of these various groups. Suppressing this information would be akin to a man putting out his own eyes because he doesnt like what he sees.Information is neutral.
When I studied MacroEconomics this information was used to catagorize groups to target for sales of products, politically targeted messages, population control and other ne-O-Farious camel dung... Suppressing this information would amount to NOT allowing those that can afford to database such information control over our lives... Spin comes from all sides. Sociologists need this information.What your proposing would be like making free speech illegal so you can stop people from lying.Or like telling Gallileo or Copernicus not study the heavens because you dont want people knowing that the earth revolves around the sun.It would be a "see no evil" "hear no evil" approach to science.We dont stop gathering information just because a group of people dont like what that information is. If we dont gather this data ,then all we would have to base our conclusions on would be "spin".
Unfortunate that those who can afford to will use this information FOR spin. An example... Try this. put together a series of questions (5 simple questions will do). Make two lists one with the questions slanted to get a certain answer and one with the same questions slanted to get a different answer. If you then ask those 5 questions of 3 groups... One the original 5 questions, one the left slanted questions, and one group the right slanted questions... Your poll will reflect the results that are to be expected by the slant of the questions. that poll can then be used to influence others that have never even seen the questions by simply repeating the result from which ever slant you wish to influence pee-ple into believing. It is a science with formulas and empricial data. Your right, it is possible to use an invalid measure to acquire data. So what?All the more reason for values-free researchers to establish an unbiased operationalization in order to get accurate information.A person doing research and using an invalid measure or flawed operationalization is only shooting themself in the foot(and wasting their time and credibility). In science, all results should be reproducable by anyone (in identical circumstances),therefore a researcher would have to show his findings to be identically reproducable by others.So, by applying scientific methodology to research, one can avoid biased or slanted results.Your essentially making my arguement for me.
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Please find me anyone that is not biased to perform this important job...
I dare you.
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Edited by
MirrorMirror
on
Tue 10/14/08 06:27 PM
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it's like I said, when I brought up the word equal, it became about some people being treated special. That make no sense how can thing be equal if some are getting more. One of my favorite all time lines is by Voltaire "In the best of possible worlds," Everyone would get a good and equal education for all citizens. We as a nation would switch our focus from individual material gain and think about how much more we could be if all our children could reach their full potential. Maybe the best thing to do would to blind ourselves since we are so obsessed with our external appearance. Excellent observation Enderra.Why does the primary in-group identify equality with special treament(for other groups) unless they are recieving special treatment for themselves(since they are equal)? Thats because for the primary in-group, equality IS special treatment.
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Edited by
MirrorMirror
on
Tue 10/14/08 06:28 PM
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Please find me anyone that is not biased to perform this important job...
I dare you.
Thats why we have established scientific methodology for gathering information.
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"That One". 
Right. John McCain should be ashamed of himself for referring to a fellow Senator in that manner. And not only that, for letting his VP spread irrational fear and hatred with that Bill Ayers crap. |
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"That One".
Right. John McCain should be ashamed of himself for referring to a fellow Senator in that manner. And not only that, for letting his VP spread irrational fear and hatred with that Bill Ayers crap. I agree. Fine examples of a leader.  
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Do we have a clear cut, black and white solution to this debate yet?
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