So in other words MS, the bible will be far more appealing if I am preemptively brainwashed? No thanks.

Google A A Allen, or John Lake....to read accounts of some amazing miracles....

Why do we need to google this stuff? Cant you just write it down or rattle it off? Stop being lazy.

It WASN'T God's Plan !!!!!

Remember reading, How God made a PERFECT WORLD IN THE BEGINNING... and Made Man in His Image....GOD CREATED PERFECTION??!!!

BUT THEN.....

SIN entered in....

And Belushi....we blame God now?

Well...God HAS ALREADY Sent a Saviour .....WHO BTW, IS THE WAY OUT OF THE MESS ..He is Just waiting on us now , to stop arguing on a forum ,and ask Him into our lives ...so He can then be able to work thru us( this way God would Not be trespassing), to reach others......and together DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE MESS!!!!

INSTEAD of foolishly arguing on a forum board!!!!

So what sin was committed to see babies dying before their 4th birthday malnourished and continually crying?

I dont blame god, that is the whole point.

God didnt do it. Because there is no god.

Im using your idiot god's inability to control a small insignificant planet's population from dying of starvation because he is too busy not reading this forum, to highlight the inaccuracies and fallacies of your hate-filled contradictory club

There is No hate among true believers.....

only God's Love...

who btw, are already working together to reach a dying and crying world....

including reaching the starving children of the world, and feeding them...and loving them...and offering them hope.

Be Blessed Now....

Well you are doing a crap job!
I know of a bunch of atheists who do a much better job and they do it whilst getting shot at, bombed and assaulted.

They dont want love, you stupid woman! Love will not fill their bellies, they want food. They want the bare essentials that you have the luxury of like clean water.

Answer the question.

So what sin was committed to see babies dying before their 4th birthday malnourished and continually crying?

Ive got another question MS. Will feeding these people who are starving and providing them with proper water filtration systems and shelter and sewage treatment be conditional upon them "embracing Jesus as their lord and savior?"

That's the biblical story alright. But it's clearly a lie.

There's no doubt about it, that this story is a lie. It's been prove to be a lie in several ways.

First off, Man cannot possibly be responsible for bringing imperfections into the world. It's perfectly clearly that the world was dog-eat-dog with disease and natural disasters long before many ever came onto the scene.

So here we have the Bible caught red-handed trying to claim that mankind is responsible for bringing what we call sin and evil into the world.

It's simply isn't true. The Bible is a lie! It's been caught red-handed!

The authors who wrote the Bible have been exposed to have been liars!

Also, if you take your head out of that stupid lying book for once and look around you, you'll discover that our closest relatives, the Chimpanzees have war-like traits that parallel human behavior almost identically. They make war with neighboring groups of chimps, and they are also quite male-chaunvanistic toward their females in their societies (and YES they definately form societies with different levels of authority).

However, if you look at another group of primates that are very closely related to us, the bonobos, you see a completely differerent picture.

The bonobos are geared for making love, not war. They get along very well with their neighbors, and with each other. They have sex almost continually. The females are the authoritiarians. This results in a much more peaceful, loving, and sexual community.

There were evolutionary forces that drove these different behaviors. The biologists have pieced it together. As it turns out the Chimps had to compete with gorrillas for their food which ultimately made them more war-like and male dominanted. The females were so busy trying to protect their young and save themselves that they just never had time to form the social bonds necessary to group together thus allowing them to become the focal point of the society.

The Bonobos on the other hand didn't have to compete with gorrillas in the areas where they evolved. Because of this things were more relaxed and the females were able to form groups and become the dominant fact in the social behavior.

Clearly we evolved from a line closer with to the chimps. Thus we are inately bred to be a male-dominant agressive and defensive society.

NOW MORNINGSONG!

Whether you believe in evolution, or whether you believe that God just created us from dust it doesn't matter,...

We are what we are because of HOW we were created!

Therefore if we were created by a God and we have these aggressive, defensive, and male-chauvanistic tendencies then it can ONLY BE becuase that's the way God created us!

What a dirty trick of a deity to create people to be aggressive and male dominant and then hold them accountable for that!

It's wasn't a choice MorningSong!

That's the LIE of the Bible!

And now that we know that it wasn't a choice maybe we can work on improving ourselves as a species without blaming outselves for things we never had any control over in the first place.

What good does it do to fall to our knees and beg God for forgiveness that we are screwed up? That's nothing short of STUPID!

If we're screwed up it's God's fault not ours!

Isn't it better to recognize that we aren't at fault, yet we CAN do thing to change the situation!

Instead of just feeling guilty and hoping to be saved by a Santa Claus in the sky, we can actually DO things to change our FUTURE!

Religion is just a copout from reality!

And it's all based on LIES.

Something interesting I located about Bonobo apes a while back and bookmarked.

The species is best characterized as female-centered and egalitarian and as one that substitutes sex for aggression. Whereas in most other species sexual behavior is a fairly distinct category, in the bonobo it is part and parcel of social relations--and not just between males and females. Bonobos engage in sex in virtually every partner combination (although such contact among close family members may be suppressed). And sexual interactions occur more often among bonobos than among other primates. Despite the frequency of sex, the bonobo's rate of reproduction in the wild is about the same as that of the chimpanzee. A female gives birth to a single infant at intervals of between five and six years. So bonobos share at least one very important characteristic with our own species, namely, a partial separation between sex and reproduction.

Morningsong wrote:

"Remember reading, How God made a PERFECT WORLD IN THE BEGINNING... and Made Man in His Image....GOD CREATED PERFECTION??!!! ""

TRIBO REPLY:

My lady, "WHERE" does it say god made a >>perfect<< world, i cannot find that anywhere. If your talking about "genisis" - the only thing stated there is that god made it and said it was >>>GOOD<<< not perfect.


BUT!, the book does state that >>>NOAH<<< was -

"Ge 6:9 These are the generations <08435> of Noah <05146>: Noah <05146> was a just <06662> man <0376> and perfect <08549> in his generations <01755>, and Noah <05146> walked <01980> (8694) with God <0430>.


PERFECT in his generations, according to strongs the word Perfect translates from the meaning - without blemish, or spot perfect. and generations means - period, age [aeon] -

So it was not a perfect world, but adam started out sinless, then when he fell, sin came upon the entire world correct? This would have included Noah correct [since the sin nature is given to everyone at birth] correct? then how can it be said of Noah that he was "PERFECT" and that he "walked with god" [as adam supposedly did?]

Unless you can show me the scripture that states god made everything "perfect" then your stuck with this as well as noahs being perfect after the fall of adam.

What if we came to this Earth from perfect ness actually TO experience this "sin"? What if it was part of the grand design? Could an imperfect world have been "created" to purpose more?

If this "sin" experience/lesson has been central to the curriculum from which we draw to complete a human cycle, wouldn't running from our assignments hold us back in our education/development/spiritual evolution (call it what-ever you like)?

So, when (any) religion or person tells us (or we tell ourselves) that we MUST combat "sin", we interpret it to mean that we MUST avoid it at all possible costs or be damned to eternal Hell. We slavishly deny any bad in ourselves.

Could this not mean that we've been stunting our own growth by running from the lesson?

By living under a veil of fear that says we MUST do "good" always, we concentrate our thinking or brain energy in subduing any "negative". We don't even know how to think without our internal taskmaster preemptively demanding/ordering us to express all thoughts and feelings from a "good" perspective. It shows up everywhere (even in comments posted by Atheists).

Why do you suppose we only use 10% of our brains' potential capacity? Could it be because we have been slaves to this phenomenon, blowing our proverbial load on having to be "good"?


By NO means is this a suggestion that we all just go nuts and forget about being "decent" (what ever that is... NOT defining it).

Don't even go there.

I look back at this statement and think...

Well... Could, perhaps, this running from "bad" ALSO be part of the curriculum?

Why not?

This way...

...none of us have to be wrong!

Aw, C'mon my lady - i want to "go there"

SL:

"What if we came to this Earth from perfectness actually TO experience this "sin"? What if it was part of the grand design? Could an imperfect world have been "created" to purpose more?


TRIBO:

I believe "sin" was in the original design if you want to follow the book god - if he did for-see the end first as i believe he would have had to - then in going back [devolution] he would have had to make choices before beginning creation to allow sin into the over-all picture.

SL:

""If this "sin" experience/lesson has been central to the curriculum from which we draw to complete a human cycle, wouldn't running from our assignments hold us back in our education/development/spiritual evolution (call it what-ever you like)?""

TRIBO:

Most likely - yes - but in the case of an all knowing god, who's "PLAN" is to have us accept him so that this will be our final lesson, so there will be no more "rebirths" so to say, then it is absolutely necessary to accept his terms or be done away with - what ever that may be -[hell, infinite seperation, etc..]


SL:


So, when (any) religion or person tells us (or we tell ourselves) that we MUST combat "sin", we interpret it to mean that we MUST avoid it at all possible costs or be damned to eternal Hell. We slavishly deny any bad in ourselves.


TRIBO:

Well, now thats up for debate - god does not really expect us to be perfect on our own he says and planned for the very fact that we could not be perfect on our own, Therefore his plan before creation began was to supply us with a way out of not being able to hit the mark of perfection. AKA - jesus/himself. We can't deny bad for ourselves accept for ABRA only abra is perfect. he should have been named "Abra-ham" But seriously, we cannot avoid sin while in this body wearing this flesh, we can only do the best we can do - if the C's are right, then we will perish, if abra's right we will just die and thats it, if JB's right we will go on forever being creative beings, and if your right, then we will be sitting at our computers in the next life in a chat room named- splendid life's forum for the wanderer's" -

SL:

Could this not mean that we've been stunting our own growth by running from the lesson?

TRIBO:

NO!

SL:

Why do you suppose we only use 10% of our brains' potential capacity? Could it be because we have been slaves to this phenomenon, blowing our proverbial load on having to be "good"?

TRIBO:

I have wondered about this - 10% of our brains capacity thing. could it not also possibly be true that were using our full capacity? and maybe this is the way it was originally designed? who's to say what the reason for the other 90% of our brains is not meant for things like back up memory or other things. i think maybe all the brain is being used - just in ways we don't understand as now - MO.

I know what "blowing your load means - does proverbial mean your saying or thinking "proverbs" while doing so -

SL:

By NO means is this a suggestion that we all just go nuts and forget about being "decent" (what ever that is... NOT defining it).

TRIBO:

I don't think we can "FORGET" about being decent or anything else one See's as good my lady. I think it is inherent to our nature, taught by fine points as one continues to live and grow and experience - this is where moral features within us are developed both naturally and by example and by consequences when not adapted by us or others.


JMO.

MS:

Even the bible itself states, that there would not be enough books in the world, to contain all the miracles and good works and all that happened....

TRIBO:

no that's not what it says, stop making things up MS, either quote it or keep silent!

JOHN 21:25


" John 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen. AV

25 estin de {AND THERE ARE} kai {ALSO} alla {OTHER THINGS} polla {MANY} osa {WHATSOEVER} epoihsen o {DID} ihsouv {JESUS,} atina {WHICH} ean {IF} grafhtai {THEY SHOULD BE WRITTEN} kay en {ONE BY ONE,} oude {NOT EVEN} auton {ITSELF} oimai {I SUPPOSE} ton {THE} kosmon {WORLD} cwrhsai {WOULD CONTAIN} ta {THE} grafomena {WRITTEN} biblia {BOOKS.} amhn {AMEN.} - IGNT

These are not statements of "FACTS" they are exaggerations put down on parchment by john. see- ""I suppose"" - he is boisterously bragging, not being serious, how many books do you think the world could hold MS? it already has billions - do you really believe that one man living in his 3.5 year ministry could perform enough miracles and other matters they would actually fill the entire world?? C'mon get serious!! if someone had kept a 24 hr seven day a week journal on the busiest man on earth in our times it would do no more that fill several books at most if he only lived for 3 years. And that's giving that situation and man a lot of credit. So no more of this crap - either quote the word with explanations or in exactness or don't do it at all please.

Or do you really believe this as a fact??

Well let's do the math shall we?

jesus lived for 33 years supposedly, give or take, so we will take his entire life time of speaking words ok?

lets say he was a fast talker and spoke 100 words a minute, and let's also say he never slept and talked non stop 24 hrs a day also ok?

At 100 words a minute non stop that equals 6000 words per hour, x 24 hrs in the day = 144,000 words a day x 365 days per year = 52,560,000 words per year x 33 yrs. = 1,734,480,000 - that would be from the day he was born till the day he died ok? - now the king james bible contains [from genisis to the end of revelations - 774,746 words. so we will divide 1,734,480,000 by 774,746 words ok? that gives us = 2,238.77 bibles worth of words [rounded off] so will say 2,239 0k?

Now the largest library in the world is ours [the library of congress] and it contains roughly 335 million books -in that little space[ as compared to the whole world!!] it would then take trillons of libraries the size of ours to make johns statement true - cant you see this?????????

if not your so far gone your lost my lady.

Jesus(WORD) Always WAS......

Even from

the Very Foundations of the World.....

I hate to be a stickler for the details once again but the bible (at the most) was written around 3000 years ago. Not exactly what I would refer to as "always was".

We have a 38,000 year old Neanderthal humorous bone. Hopefully that puts it into perspective for you.

Krimsa......Jesus WAS ...before the very foundations of the world....long BEFORE he came in the Flesh.

Jesus IS the WORD.

Jesus is I AM.

Read John chapter one....

MS, Im afraid I will just have to take your word on that. I realize you believe it on some personal level and such but it just doesn't hold water. You are left with two very grave options in that case.

A. Your god is not loving after all (based on what has been posted and demonstrated by several members) as it relates to scripture.

B. Since no Grand Creatrix could possibly be such an egotistical ass, nor demonstrate such human stupidity, frailty, and defect of character, then the bible was in fact written by men who had plans to utilize it's power over the populace to control and manipulate them in order that they achieve their own ends.

Take your pick.