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| Topic: Have faith in science | |
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Eljay wrote:
I'm not responsible for being here, and the circumstance I was born into, however, having been here for over 50 years - I'd say I'm culpable for many - if not all of my decisions and actions. Aren't you? No. Absolutely positively not! I am not responsible for the choices I had to make in this life. I was limited to choosing between few options. None of which would have been my choice if I actually had choice! No Eljay, I am not responsible for the limited options I was given to choose from in this life. Nor am I responsible for the social standards and conditions that were forced upon me in this life. Nor was I responsible for the poor mentors I had to put up with. No. I was not responsible for having to deal with a limited situation where there were never any choices that I could make that I was truly happy with! Moreover, I even tried to make good choices, but those choices were not possible to make because they were dependent upon other people who chose to say no. I had to take jobs that I did not like. I had to perform tasks that I did not agree with. I was actually fired from TWO jobs in my early teens because I was TOO HONEST! Yes, that's the truth! In one I worked at a service station. I pumped gas, changed tires, and assisted in minor repairs. Why was I fired? Because would give people HONEST answers to their questions! If they asked me if they needed their oil changed I would check it and if it looked clean and fresh I'd tell them it looks good to me. If they asked me if they needed new tires I'll look at their tires and if they still had lots of tread left I'd tell them their in good shape yet and have quite a few miles left on them. My boss was very displeased with my honesty and he told me so. None the less I couldn't stop being honest with people, and finally he told me that although I do good work he'll have to get somone else who will talk people into buying tires and getting their oil changed. 
This is no joke Eljay. I was young, honest, and naive. I learned very quickly that you can't even keep an HONEST job by being HONEST. Well, that didn't make me become dishonest. I went on to work at a used truck dealership. I was still quite young and I was just the 'lot boy'. All I did was wash the trucks and keep the lot tidy. But I also got to know the trucks. When customers would ask me about them I would tell them the TRUTH. I didn't last long at that job either. They let me go telling me that they need someone who can "ignore the flaws in things".
No Eljay, I'm not responsible for the choices I had to make in this life. It's a dog-eat-dog world and I didn't design it to be this way. I also asked girls out with the intention of being a faithful and true companion. I was definitely marriage minded. And I was seeking a lifemate to live happily everafter with. You can call me naive all you want. But that was my choice. But the girls said no. They would rather hook up with the guys who were going to beat them, abuse them, get them pregnant, and then leave them. I never married Eljay. That WASN'T my choice. I was forced to accept that option. No my life has definitely not been about my choices at all. Not in the least. Not with careers, not with a realationship, not in any way shape or form. I'm not responsible for having to live a life that I did not chose to live. Moreover, I have absolutely no guilt whatsoever about any of the choices that I did make. I made the very best choices that were available to me. If they were poor choices it's only because that was all that was available to choose from! I can't be held repsonsible for not being given the options that I would prefer to choose. If I'm going to be judged for all of eternity, then the only righteous way to judge me would be to judge me based on the choices I would have made if I actually had a choice!. Only then could I be judged for who I truly am!. Anything else would be less than righteous. I would be condemed to eternal damnation for having been put into a world where the choices I would prefer to choose simply weren't availble to chose from. 
The would be nothing righteous about that situation! All I can tell you with absolute certainty Eljay is that I'm on the side of "GOOD". Therefore if there is such a thing as an all-perfect God who is also on the side of "GOOD", then I guess God and I are on the same side. Otherwise, God would need to be on the "other" side. If God is all-just and all-righteous, then my destiny to Seventh Heaven is sealed in stone. It can't depend on appeasing the "Christians". It can't depend on believing in Christ. It can't depend on anything other than what's truly in a person's heart. Therefore any religion that claims that it does depend on anything other than what is in your heart has to be a bogus religion. Otherwise good peopel would be condemed. But that would be unjust, unrighteous, and most certainly imperfect. Thus any God that would devise such a scheme would also need to be unjust, unrighteous, and imperfect. Salvation cannot depend upon religion, or any specific belief in any religious stories of dieties who were supposedly sacrificed to 'save' people. Either people DESERVE to be 'saved' or they don't. Believing in any particular story isn't going to change what they DESERVE. If there is a righteous God who judges, he can't be condeming good people just because they didn't align themselves with an organized religion. There would be nothing at all righteous about such a scheme. In fact, there's nothing rigtheous about a God who condemns in the first place. That very notion is a hostile notion. It's not a divine notion. The Bible was written by hostile men who wanted to control people using fear and guilt. It has nothing to do with any all-perfect righteous God because no all-perfect righteous God would stoop that low! Men used the idea of God and religious doctrines to justify their wars, and to justify their male chauvanism. No truly righteous and divine God would condone either of these things. 
I can empathise with what you have gone through in life - I suffered the same limitations. However I did make the choice for a life career on my own, and though it would have been a lot easier on me had it payed a livable wage. (I often had to have a "real job" to support the theater job (which according to my parents and friends was not a real job) So - what you are telling me is that all of the choices you made in life were the right ones? Else ones that due to circumstances you had no real choice as to what you were confronted with in terms of options. In addition to this - you've never lied, never stole anything, and never made anincorrect choice to do nothing wheb some sort of action would have been a better choice. You are one unique individual. Well - I don't know what the problem is that you have with the Christian God - because you have done everything that He has expected of you according to His text. Is the problem you are having then the fact that others are capable of falling short of making the right choice and since that's okay with you, and it's not okay with the biblical God that he doesn't exist? |
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I don't need the bible to discern whether or not there is sin in this world. Or even that there is sin in my life. A concept I determine as "falling short of absolute truth". This is not to say that everyone is "evil" - just that - when measured up to God - who I would think must be good to a point of absolute - man falls short. The nicest person in the world, at one time or another, is going to fall short. Either through commision of an act, or omission.
Why would you want to or expect to "measure up" to your imagined image of a "God?" So you could feel unworthy? I didn't imagine it. I am not the creator of the God of the scripture, I'm aware of the Christian God because I read the text. How do you know God is perfect? What makes you believe that? Even if God is perfect, do you think he expects all of his children to be as "perfect" as him with no effort on his part? Because the text states it. The entire post that you are quoting from was a discussion on the Christian God. Is the fact of the Christian God something you are unfamiliar with, or are you draggin me out of context to explain this? As to the "perfect part" - it is what the text states, and He does put forth the effort to those who request it of Him - but He does not force it on people. According to the Bible, God abandoned the people of the earth. He promised to return and did not return. People are still patiently waiting for the return of their perfect God so they can prostrate themselves before him and feel unworthy. Wrong. Read the text again - your interpretation is one that lacks understanding of the text, and it's claims. Let's get things in perspective before you start claiming textual fact through misperception. Jesus promised he would not abandon his disciples. Do you know how he fullfilled this problem? Look it up - it's there. So man falls short of God... SO WHAT? What did you expect? Perfect carbon copies of God in the form of mankind? Do you have children? Do you expect them to be perfect or at least "measure up" to you? I have no expectations. But I will agree with you. Man falls short - and it is actually expected that He will. It is man's nature. It is actually how we experience growth. In the academic sense, as well as spiritual. No one is always right. Except Abra of course. We strive to be perfect - else what's the point of remaining amoungst the living. we understand our failures through consequence. They remain - non the less, failures. Which os the reason why Christ went to the cross - to compensate for our failures, as we do not have - within our own means - the capability of undoing the wrongs we do, and the ripple effect it has on ourselves and those around us. What kind of thinking is this? Who would want to think like this. Geeeeze... just live you life the best you know how with what you have and stop feeling bad because you can't be perfect like God or measure up to him. That is so self defeating. Such negative thinking. jb Who said anything about feeling sad? Oh - you did. Stop this negativity. 
Actually - I have the perfection of God to call upon whenever I need it, and He's always been there to provide for my need in this way. Be it through material things, insight, or simply other people showing up when needed. It's never been God who's let me down when I put my faith in him. It's always people who I put faith in who let me down. People I have no choice but to rely on because I work with them, etc... Which brings me full circle. People fall short of doing right. It's the nature of people, and I expect it, and account for it in everything I do. |
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I'm addressing the issue of a God who JUDGES. And I'm speaking to the issue of what would be righteous judgement. If I could CHOOSE to make the world PERFECT, I would! Clearly that CHOICE is not available to me to make! No whining, no complaining, not blaming anyone. It's just the Honest Brutal Truth Jeanniebean! My choice is for the world to be perfect. That's my choice. But clearly my choice doesn't mean diddly squat. Abra, If you don't believe in a God who JUDGES, (The Biblical version of a God) then why do you address the issue at all? Why do you continue to draw your sword and fight that battle against the idea of a God that does not exist with people who believe he does? I am left wondering why you don't use your sword to cut the strings that tie you to that false doctrine and just move on. You are doing battle with a fictional character. Dismiss the doctrine, dismiss the myth and place your attention on something real, is what I would suggest. Or perhaps you simply enjoy the mythical battle you are engaged in. Your choices mean everything. You chose where to place your energy and attention. To battle the myth and place your attention there, only gives it more energy to continue. Only when you withdraw your energy and attention from it will it fade away with the rest of the myths, but as long as people give it their attention, even resistance, it will remain in power. jb Forgive my piggybacking your post Jeannie - but I would agree. Abra - we all know you have chosen not to believe in the bible, and not having read it, you do yourself no favors by stating what you've heard or thinks it says, and then attempting to refute it. You soend too much time misquoting the text, or setting up pretext - that you know you've not reasoned out - to attempt to convince us that you don't understand it, and therefore don't believe it. Of course you don't understand it - you haven't read it. Fine. You've chosen not to believe it, despite your not really knowing it. Fine. What I appreciate most about your contribution to the threads is the perspective of being against it by what you DO know. Your understanding of Mathematical concepts, and science are not equalled by many here, and you are as quick to see faulty logic as any of us are. So use this skil to point out faulty logic - rather than creating it. As Jeannie says - it is not a surprise to any of us what your position is - so stop feeling the need to continually remind us. I prefer to read your posts, rather than skip over them because you are just looking for different ways to say the same thing. |
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Why do you continue to draw your sword and fight that battle against the idea of a God that does not exist with people who believe he does?
Because the religion exists. The religion is very real Jeannie. The religion has an adverse affect on many lives. I know it had an adverse affect on mine. It's a totally unnecessary guilt trip. It can only serve to make decent honest people feel unnecessarily guilty. The truly nasty people coudln't care less. It only serves to make good people feel bad. So I post against it as a humanitarian service. 
It's my gift to humanity. 
But why do you think that becoming a Christian makes one guilty? That's absurd to me. It free's one from guilt. Guilt is an attempt of the mind to avoid taking responsibility. Once the realization of owning up to the actions and decisions we make occurs, (and accepting whatever consequences there may be due to those decisions) - there's no guilt. Where does this idea come from - that it "makes one guilty"? |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Thu 09/25/08 11:48 PM
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Jeannie wrote:
".... If God made man in his image then God had to at least resemble a flesh and blood man, and was probably also flesh and blood...." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ TRUE Jeannie!! WHEN Jesus came in the form of man, that was when God become Flesh and dwelt among us. And Jeannie, when we get to heaven(and I say we, because I am believing still with all my heart, that you and Abra and everyone else here , will all be in heaven one day too )....
I believe we all will be able see Jesus with the NAIL PRINTS in his hands.... Also.... one day , our bodies will be ressurrected....just like Jesus body was ressurrected....so that means we will have bodies i heaven...although it won't quite be like the bodies we have on earth....rememmber Jesus was able to pass thru walls ,before his ascension into heaven....and even ate fish. BUT in the beginning, when God made man in His Image, Jesus was NOT yet manifested in the flesh....ALTHOUGH Jesus ( the Word) was ALWAYS WITH the Father..right from the very beginning. Point is....There is MUCH MUCH MORE to this "Being Made in God's Image", then can be explained in a just a few words here...wished I had more time....but don't at the present time. And Jeannie....one more thing.....don't go " assuming " or trying to read something else between the lines, when it comes to interpreting what I write here...I write what I mean and mean what I write.....nothing more and nothing less. Love You Precious... 
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Fri 09/26/08 03:03 AM
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Eljay, Yeah I must tell you I dont know which show that is exactly because I looked up the "History Channel" website also and this is all I could find when I entered in search word "Neanderthal" 25,000 B.C. In Europe, arctic glaciers reach as far south as London. Massive predators are on the prowl. Across the continent, two species of primitive man struggle to survive. The Neanderthals are natural hunters, built for brute strength and well-adapted to the cold. However, they lack the understanding of technology and ability to speak in abstract terms that our species has. The Cro-Magnon, Homo sapiens are smarter but more fragile. With exciting new research in anthropology, archaeology and genetics, follow these early humans through a season of survival. Here is another article detailing the DNA sequencing. http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-08/cp-cnm080108.php If you find it, post. Are you confusing the Cro-Mags and Neanderthal? No - they were pretty specific about Homo Sapien. I'm watching a show on robotics now - so I'll check it out later. It was a premire show, and the guide on my T.V. just called the show Neanderthal. Gosh I'm gettin' old. I don't even remember which night it was on - but it was last week. I do know that the name of the company that is responsible for the genome sequencing is "454 Life Sciences" and they are located in Branford Conn. This I remembered because I have a dear friend who lives in Branford, and have been there many times. I checked out their web site - but most of the links are only current to 2007, and the Neanderthal links didn't connect for me. Okay I looked up 454 and found their website. Im actually quite familiar with their facility. I found the Neanderthal link located on their site however all 454 does is the actual sequencing of the DNA found in the 38,000 year old Neanderthal humorous bone. They are doing this work for the Max Planck Institute. So in effect its HUGE advertising for 454. All they are is the facility doing the actual genome sequencing so I still have not been able to find anything other than what was described in the Discovery Show.Its been completed already. The Max Planck institute is a facility that does extensive work in the field of anthropology but they are not set up to accomplish the feat of genetic sequencing on 38,000 year old DNA in hominids so of course they needed to farm it out so to speak. Let me know once you find something to support this. It does not have to be the show itself but anything you can locate. Unless you are trying to to establish that this is a separate study apart from Max Planck but on 454, they are linking the source material and DNA sample directly to Max Planck. http://phdiva.blogspot.com/2008/08/we-have-neandertal-dna.html " We also wanted to know about the history of the Neandertal's themselves," said Jeffrey Good, also of the Max-Planck Institute. For instance, the new sequence information revealed that the Neandertal's have fewer evolutionary changes overall, but a greater number that alter the amino acid building blocks of proteins. One straightforward interpretation of that finding is that the Neandertal's had a smaller population size than humans do, which makes natural selection less effective in removing mutations." You will notice in this link it also includes ALL of the scientists who were involved in this research so you can look through there and maybe find the name of the person you saw. Also you say, "they were pretty specific about Homo Sapien" Well thats why I ask if you are confusing the Cro-Mags with the Neanderthals because Cro-Mags were Homo Sapien but they coincided with the Neanderthals. There was some overlap there. Look at a Cro-Magnum skull and then a Neanderthal skull (best if side by side) so you can see the difference. |
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Edited by
GOALLTHEWAY
on
Fri 09/26/08 03:36 AM
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Eljay wrote:
I'm not responsible for being here, and the circumstance I was born into, however, having been here for over 50 years - I'd say I'm culpable for many - if not all of my decisions and actions. Aren't you? Abra wrote:
No. Absolutely positively not! I am not responsible for the choices I had to make in this life. I was limited to choosing between few options. None of which would have been my choice if I actually had choice! .......... NOT RESPONSIBLE? 
I am going to be very brutally honest here. You will never ever be 'free' if you do not realize and take responsibility for every moment of your life. I hate to break it to you, Eljay and Abra, but you are both 100% responsible for being here, and for every decision you have ever made. You are responsible for being here, for being born in the situation you were born into, and your are responsible for every choice you ever made. You are responsible for everything that happens to you and for every experience in your life. If you truly want to go out kicking and screaming that it was not your fault, that you are not to blame for your life, for your choices or lack there of, then you will be back soon enough in the next life to learn this fact and to learn responsibility. You are the one responsible for your life. There is no savior to save you. Get over it. Take some responsibility, quit whining and blaming everybody else for your lives. Yes you are responsible. You are the creator. I am not responsible for being here. I am here because of alcohol and a low neck sweater that my mothers use to own. My dad really loved that sweater. What’s more he really loved the women that was wearing that sweater the night I was conceived. Reincarnation is one of the dumbest theories I have ever herd. I mean what’s the point of being born over and over again if you can’t remember any of the lessons that you learned in the previous life? Talk about a waste of time. So you lose all your memories and life lessons and start over and over and over again. That’s a form of living in hell if you ask me. One God who gives you one Life. I’m ok with that …really I am. |
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Fri 09/26/08 04:11 AM
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I found another stoning in the bible! This one is a doozy.
For taking "accursed things" Achan ... took of the accursed thing. ... And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones. ... So the LORD turned from the fierceness of his anger. Joshua 7:1-26
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Fri 09/26/08 05:07 AM
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But you don't discredit the organization of the religion itself, you directly address and speak against their mythical God, who does not actually exist. No, I speak to the 'biblical God' which is a description in the book they found their beliefs on. The description is very real even though the God doesn't actually exist. You don't do battle with the liars (the church) you attack the lie itself, which can't be proven anyway, so it is hardly worth the effort.
You're right, it can't be proven. But it can be shown to self-contradictory. In other words, it can be disproven. And has been as far as I'm concerned. Hence when you attack the imaginary God, his defenders the believers, come out from their hiding places and do battle with you to protect their cherished beliefs. They will stand their ground to their death, they will not listen to you.
While they are too busy defending their belief, they have no time to reflect on it themselves or question whether it is truth or not. They are told they must get ready for the next attack. They are too busy defending to find their own truth. jb I'm not trying to convert or convince anyone. I'm just bouncing off their posts. Other people read the forums beside the posters. I often get emails from people behind the scenes thanking me for given them insights they had never thought of before. People who NEVER post to the religious forums at all, but obviosiously read them on occassion. Hey, they say if you can touch on person in a positive way you don't a great job. Well, I've gotten emails from far more than one person thanking me for my posts in the religion forums. In fact, Krimsa just recently took a quote from my post and said it was really cool and that she's like to use. So little bits and pieces are making headway. I don't expect, (nor do I even try) to convince MorningSong, ELjay, or anyone else to abandon their belief systems. But I will argue why I don't feel that their reasons for beliving it our sufficient.
If I had a girlfriend I'd be too busy wallowing in the sins of love to be posting. But also, I'm a horny lonesome old man you'll have to put up with me.
Do you want me to go away. Is that what you're asking? I am writing a piece of music here as we speak! I enjoy reading your posts Abra. This is a religion forum and though it is classified as "spirituality unspecific" we often hear the Christian point of view and there are a few Fundamentalist Christians who tend to be very vocal and high profile. Im sorry but if you put it out there, others have a right to question your position and/or assertions. This applies to anyone. Otherwise what is the point in this? It will become very boring as one person will basically espouse their own beliefs and everyone will be expected to unquestionably acquiescence Not going to happen. I will be the first one out of here if it goes that route. |
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Krimsa.....
BEFORE sin entered in , God Had Created a PERFECT WORLD. God has created man TO LIVE FOREVER WITH GOD.....NO DEATH....NO SIN ... NO EVIL...NOTHING BUT PEACE AND LOVE. BUT then SIN entered in ....which separated man from God. With man now separated from God , evil and destruction entered in also ....leading to further destruction and evil and sadness and despair and chaos on earth. Here is an article that explains a bit more: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ " How can God be so destructive and still be called a God of love? " It can be difficult to understand the many facets of God’s character. We know that He is a God of love and peace; yet, so many times He has employed methods of destruction as He worked out His plans. The event surrounding the Flood (Genesis 6), Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 19), the parting of the Red Sea and the subsequent destruction of the Egyptian army (Exodus 14), and the coming tribulation (Revelation) are just a few. If you look closely, though, each one of these events was for the purpose of either protecting God’s people or drawing men to God. The Flood was representative of the final judgment the unsaved will face. But, in the face of that judgment, He protected the righteous from His wrath, much like Christians will be protected from the coming wrath of God. The events at the parting of Red Sea were obviously God’s way of protecting the Israelites. Remember, in the form of plague-type warnings, God tried many times to reach the Egyptians. Sounds a lot like the warnings this world is receiving almost daily regarding the judgments to come. Some faith is necessary to understand God’s character. Scripture tells us that He is loving and merciful, but it also says that He is holy and just. “The Lord is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." (2 Pet. 3:9). He is constantly reaching His hand out to unbelievers, in whatever way He deems necessary. God cannot tolerate sin, but neither does He want us to suffer the penalty of our sins. Look how far He went to make a way out for us! We can never understand the fullness of God’s ways. We must simply have enough faith to believe that, "The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 6:23). ..." http://www.raptureready.com/faq/faq42.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Fri 09/26/08 06:10 AM
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Yes that's all fine and good MS but go back and read some of those reasons given for permitting the stoning to occur. "Crimes" such as taking the lord's name in vain, a woman being raped in city limits (murdering the victim), an ox for goring a human! Its preposterous. Capital punishment is one thing when it is warranted. Of course that is a fiercely debated issue in and of itself and this is not a legal forum so we dont need to venture down that road. I am telling you that these circumstances illustrated are not acceptable and they do not amount to demonstrable cause for taking a persons' life in such a horribly cruel manner. Do you realize how long it takes to stone someone to death? Not every rock makes contact with the skull. Its is a slow, agonizing way to die. Its inhuman.
I would also speculate that this is in fact the reason why our modern legal system today is based on the code of Hammurabi and NOT the bible. If we had instead inherited Moses' laws or utilized the scripture in some capacity, then probably everyone would be put to death. We would not even require prisons or county facilities to detain people for lesser crimes because there would be NO lesser crimes. Felony and misdemeanor would all be considered sins against god and therefore stonable offenses. We would do it out in the parking lot immediately following the trial. We would probably just skip the trial and go directly to stoning. |
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God made a perfect world...remember?
So by God allowng man a free will, and God also allowing man to choose to make some of these laws, do we now blame God? Have to run.....Be Blessed Krimsa.
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No Im not blaming god for anything because there is no "god" in my opinion. Its a creation mythology no different than any other creation mythology found the world over. I would blame humans for their own mistakes but I feel we need to be a little more sensible about the degree of punishment we inflict upon them. The bible tends to "overreach" a bit and condemns people unnecessarily. But that's just my personal observation.
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Why do you continue to draw your sword and fight that battle against the idea of a God that does not exist with people who believe he does?
Because the religion exists. The religion is very real Jeannie. The religion has an adverse affect on many lives. I know it had an adverse affect on mine. It's a totally unnecessary guilt trip. It can only serve to make decent honest people feel unnecessarily guilty. The truly nasty people coudln't care less. It only serves to make good people feel bad. So I post against it as a humanitarian service.
It's my gift to humanity.
But why do you think that becoming a Christian makes one guilty? That's absurd to me. It free's one from guilt. Guilt is an attempt of the mind to avoid taking responsibility. Once the realization of owning up to the actions and decisions we make occurs, (and accepting whatever consequences there may be due to those decisions) - there's no guilt. Where does this idea come from - that it "makes one guilty"? So you don't feel guilty for letting an innocent man, the son of a God no less, die for your sins? That alone is a huge guilt trip that does not really make sense to me. jb |
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I am not responsible for being here. I am here because of alcohol and a low neck sweater that my mothers use to own. My dad really loved that sweater. What’s more he really loved the women that was wearing that sweater the night I was conceived.
Reincarnation is one of the dumbest theories I have ever herd. I mean what’s the point of being born over and over again if you can’t remember any of the lessons that you learned in the previous life? Talk about a waste of time. So you lose all your memories and life lessons and start over and over and over again. That’s a form of living in hell if you ask me. One God who gives you one Life. I’m ok with that …really I am. Edited by GOALLTHEWAY on Fri 09/26/08 03:36 AM If you don't want to be responsible for being here, you will continue to keep coming back. Sorry. You will remember your lessons, you just don't remember the incident or the life. A child can know that fire will burn, but he may not remember every single time he was burned by a fire. If, however, you do not learn from your experience, you are doomed to repeat it over and over. That is why people keep making the same mistakes over and over. They are not learning. It is not required to believe in reincarnation. It is either true or it is not. The same with anything. What you think and believe about these things is just opinion. jb |
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I am not responsible for being here. I am here because of alcohol and a low neck sweater that my mothers use to own. My dad really loved that sweater. What’s more he really loved the women that was wearing that sweater the night I was conceived.
Reincarnation is one of the dumbest theories I have ever herd. I mean what’s the point of being born over and over again if you can’t remember any of the lessons that you learned in the previous life? Talk about a waste of time. So you lose all your memories and life lessons and start over and over and over again. That’s a form of living in hell if you ask me. One God who gives you one Life. I’m ok with that …really I am. Edited by GOALLTHEWAY on Fri 09/26/08 03:36 AM If I may "put words in Jeannies mouth". I think the point is that the insistence on the "one god, one life" theory is one of the reasons why one keeps coming back - because they haven't learned their lesson about that yet. Just an idea. |
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Why do you continue to draw your sword and fight that battle against the idea of a God that does not exist with people who believe he does?
Because the religion exists. The religion is very real Jeannie. The religion has an adverse affect on many lives. I know it had an adverse affect on mine. It's a totally unnecessary guilt trip. It can only serve to make decent honest people feel unnecessarily guilty. The truly nasty people coudln't care less. It only serves to make good people feel bad. So I post against it as a humanitarian service.
It's my gift to humanity.
But why do you think that becoming a Christian makes one guilty? That's absurd to me. It free's one from guilt. Guilt is an attempt of the mind to avoid taking responsibility. Once the realization of owning up to the actions and decisions we make occurs, (and accepting whatever consequences there may be due to those decisions) - there's no guilt. Where does this idea come from - that it "makes one guilty"? So you don't feel guilty for letting an innocent man, the son of a God no less, die for your sins? That alone is a huge guilt trip that does not really make sense to me. jb Well when i was in the cult - no, i did not feel guilty at all about jesus dieing for my and everyone else's sins and here's why: god set this plan of his own doing in motion, not me, i was not around nor did i have any say so in the matter. from my view point god took his own son's life - a plan from the outstart, it was not a Worse case scenario out look on "what if" man sins, he knew man would sin, it is evident from the first sacrifice in the garden that sin would be covered or dealt with through sacrifice, animal or otherwise and forshawdowed the ultimate sacrifice to come [jesus] so it is god's doing as to the death of his Son - not me - not you - "GOD's"!! Now if i had been asked if i had wanted to particiate in this life i now have and that i would have to accept what god had done and is doing, that would be another matter all together, but i wasn't! My choice was to accept this story and move on in a relationship with god thru jesus, which at that point i did. I don't really have a problem with god being an angry god or vengefull god as abra does, "IF" he is really god, then he is entitled to do as he will for his own pleasure or anything else, just as if i or you or eljay or abra or others would be if I/you/they, were god, - would you do the same as the god of the bible had/has/is doing? I know i wouldn't have but thats me, i cannot speak for the rest, but thats beside the point here - it's not about what i might do - it's about what he did do - you either accept it or not - your choice - or you can be like me and try it out and if you don't like it leave!! But for guilt?? nope never, his call, not mine. |
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It has already been proven. Head in sand does not change that. IT HAS NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER BEEN PROVEN BY SCIENCE , that man evolved from an ape or any other species !!! HOWEVER Man , IN HAVING TO ADAPT TO SEVERE CHANGES IN HIS ENVIRONEMT.....ESPECIALLY AFTER THE FLOOD ...COULD AND WOULD HAVE CAUSED THE CHANGES WITHIN MAN'S OWN ORIGINAL SPECIES , CALLED MAN. Notice I said, changes WITHIN ONES OWN SPECIES. BUT THAT IS NOT THE SAME AS COMPLETELY CHANGING INTO A WHOLE OTHER SPECIES. (WHICH IS WHAT EVOLUTIONISTS ARGUE) I work as a computer technician to pay my school bills, I go to school as a student of the physical sciences. I always have a good laugh when someone who does not know a thing about computers tries to tell me whats wrong with it. Or someone that goes on and on trying to describe everything over the last week they did to there computer thinking that they are helping me understand the problem when in fact chances are all they need to do is explain the symptoms . . I am after all the computer doctor. (its my job so I am never rude, I have excellent customer service skills, my customers love me. But I still laugh . . only on mute so as not to offend) I always have a great big laugh when someone tries to explain some physical phenomena that occurs in nature that I have just finished studying in great detail . . . something we all see happening in nature but is extremely non-intuitive. Light is such a thing, thermodynamics and heat exchange are such a thing, particle wave duality is very much such a thing. Evolution is apparently also such a thing. I am also humble when I know I have a lack of understanding, or when what seems simple is shown to me to be extremely complex. I always try to listen more then talk in that case, in fact I tend to laugh then at myself, for having such a naive view of the topic. I laugh at my own ignorance in that case. I also laugh when an entertainer such as Chris Angel does a trick and people are all up in arms either about magic, or witch craft or even feel the need to claim .. . "THATS FAKE" I laugh because if they did a little research they would find that he is also a skeptic, and claims no supernatural powers . . I imagine several hundred years ago he would have been stoned . . but alas . . . I laugh when I read the comments on youtube regarding his performances. To say that the earth is 6-10K years old, or that only types of species come to exist is SOOOOOOOOOOOOO ridiculous I don't even laugh . . . I cry. We can absolutely 100% disprove that with nothing but observations, and empirical evidence which is sooo overwhelming that again . . . I cry. Science has a saying when something is soooo far from a valid argument. We say that isnt even wrong. Morning star you are not even wrong. |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Fri 09/26/08 01:25 PM
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Why do you continue to draw your sword and fight that battle against the idea of a God that does not exist with people who believe he does?
Because the religion exists. The religion is very real Jeannie. The religion has an adverse affect on many lives. I know it had an adverse affect on mine. It's a totally unnecessary guilt trip. It can only serve to make decent honest people feel unnecessarily guilty. The truly nasty people coudln't care less. It only serves to make good people feel bad. So I post against it as a humanitarian service.
It's my gift to humanity.
But why do you think that becoming a Christian makes one guilty? That's absurd to me. It free's one from guilt. Guilt is an attempt of the mind to avoid taking responsibility. Once the realization of owning up to the actions and decisions we make occurs, (and accepting whatever consequences there may be due to those decisions) - there's no guilt. Where does this idea come from - that it "makes one guilty"? So you don't feel guilty for letting an innocent man, the son of a God no less, die for your sins? That alone is a huge guilt trip that does not really make sense to me. jb Well when i was in the cult - no, i did not feel guilty at all about jesus dieing for my and everyone else's sins and here's why: god set this plan of his own doing in motion, not me, i was not around nor did i have any say so in the matter. from my view point god took his own son's life - a plan from the outstart, it was not a Worse case scenario out look on "what if" man sins, he knew man would sin, it is evident from the first sacrifice in the garden that sin would be covered or dealt with through sacrifice, animal or otherwise and forshawdowed the ultimate sacrifice to come [jesus] so it is god's doing as to the death of his Son - not me - not you - "GOD's"!! Now if i had been asked if i had wanted to particiate in this life i now have and that i would have to accept what god had done and is doing, that would be another matter all together, but i wasn't! My choice was to accept this story and move on in a relationship with god thru jesus, which at that point i did. I don't really have a problem with god being an angry god or vengefull god as abra does, "IF" he is really god, then he is entitled to do as he will for his own pleasure or anything else, just as if i or you or eljay or abra or others would be if I/you/they, were god, - would you do the same as the god of the bible had/has/is doing? I know i wouldn't have but thats me, i cannot speak for the rest, but thats beside the point here - it's not about what i might do - it's about what he did do - you either accept it or not - your choice - or you can be like me and try it out and if you don't like it leave!! But for guilt?? nope never, his call, not mine. Tribo....you wrote and I quote: ".....you either accept it or not - your choice - or you can be like me and TRY 
IT 
OUT
AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT , LEAVE !!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Tribo......"TRYING IT OUT" is NOT what becoming a Christian is all about. 
You cannot just "try Jesus out", and expect To be Saved!! NO!! No wonder you left Christianity, salvation never took place in your heart with that attitude. God Looks upon the heart,when He Saves someone.....and God WILL turn a deaf ear to someone just "doing lip service", or someone just "trying Him on for size" !! BELIEVING AND ACCEPTING JESUS .... ALSO INVOLVES MEANING IT IN YOUR HEART !!! THAT IS WHAT GETS YOU SAVED!!! But sadly, some people.when they confess Jesus, just mean it in their head and NEVER in their heart .....and then they wonder why nothing happened... or they wonder why they feel so dead.. and therefore give up on Christianity and leave. And I say heck yea , you might as well LEAVE then... cause you were "NEVER THERE", TO BEGIN WITH!!! God does NOT want ROBOTS following him blindly ...simply because someone told them about Jesus,and they just follow cause someone else told them to follow!!!! THAT'S WHAT RELIGION DOES. Tribo.... Without TRULY ACCEPTING AND BELIEVING IN JESUS for yourself, you were just spinning your wheeels ..and were just caught up in religion... nothing more. GOD WANT RELATIONSHIP WITH US TRIBO,NOT RELIGION!!
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Edited by
Eljay
on
Fri 09/26/08 01:17 PM
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To say that the earth is 6-10K years old, or that only types of species come to exist is SOOOOOOOOOOOOO ridiculous I don't even laugh . . . I cry. We can absolutely 100% disprove that with nothing but observations, and empirical evidence which is sooo overwhelming that again . . . I cry. I would appreciate it if you'd stop crying for a moment and state this empirical evidence for me - since no one else ever does when I ask. I'm unfamiliar with this proof that is 100% infallible. Thanx. |
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