Im not going to answer your questions, and this is my last post on the matter. I dont know why you are trying so hard to get inside my mind to understand my responses. I mistakenly said the word 'brain' and 'you' in the same sentences, and even after rephrasing it, two of you cannot seem to let it go.

I cannot let it go that this IS something where there could be a valid test to prove if someone is capable of doing it. But would you do this? no! not even for a million, because James Randi is 'probably some asshole'..

It can hardly be a debate when one refuses to give straight answers to direct questions and refuses to even talk about it when his statements are challenged. So you are right about the debate being over. Your timing is off though. It ceased to be a debate when you first stated your refusal to believe that OOBE was possible simply because it had never been proven to you.

I might be having one now, I was drinking frozen hurricanes during a hurricane last night.

I think an OOBE isn't possible. If anyone would like to disprove me we can set up a time and you can prove it to me. Unitl then I stand by my belief.

Assuming I understand the question correctly, (I edited it to what I think was the intention - see bolded letters) my answer is: “I gained the knowledge that I am not a body and can exist independently of a body”.

lol! thank you. Now i know for sure that you are petty and pedantic. You just corrected his grammar for him and nothing more.

Carry on..

There are valid tests to prove these things. But people will not believe what they do not want to believe no matter what the results are.

If you really want to find proof of it, then you will have to do it yourself. I have no interest in spending my time trying to convince skeptics.

I have experienced certain things and I am convinced of certain things, and I get tired of skeptics bringing up the fact that some jerk who claims to offer a million dollars has not gotten any takers yet. I really don't care about him, or about proving anything to skeptics. They can believe as they wish.

I'm sure Christians feel the same way about people who ask them to prove the existence of God.

JB

I can respect that. If/when I get to the point where I can reliably control it, I will get back to you.

Cool. As I said I'm open to it, it's just one of those things I'd need to see with my own eyes. I've seen enough to believe in ghosts, so OOBE isn't a far reach for me.

If you consider an honest attempt at clarification to be "petty and pedantic" then I can only reply to such paranoia with a quote by my favorite philosopher...

"The criminal inevitably accuses others of the very crimes he is commiting."

you came out of your body and entered into another plane of existence where the laws of physics were either altered or cancelled out and the only knowledge that you retained was that you came out of the body ...sounds like an hallucination

An out of body experience is not something that you can "see with your own eyes." This is because you have left your "eyes" behind you. They are still in your body.

I just thought that was funny.

And yet, you can still "see." That is the incredible part.
It is something that has to be experience on a personal basis. It is not something that can easily be demonstrated.

If I got out of my body right this minute and found you where ever you are, you could not see me.... but I could see you.

I do not have this ability, and there may have to be a connection between you and me and an agreement to communicate on this level.

People are surrounded by a unified field that does protect them to a certain extent from these kinds of intrusions.

JB

I'm not an idiot. I know I wouldn't be able to see you. However I would be able to test you by changing stuff in the room so only your astrial projection would be able to see it.

I never said, nor do I believe, anything remotely like "I entered into another plane of existence where the laws of physics were either altered or cancelled out".

To expound on my original statement, I would say simply that the point from which I was perceiving (or "seeing" if you will) was located several feet from my body.

As to "the knowledge I retained", it was not just "I came out of the body", but that I could perceive the physical universe while out of the body. And, other than "location relative to the body", that perception was no different from any I have had while "in the body".

I see.

I did not mean to infer that you were an "idiot." What you are saying is that you would like to "test" someone who claims to be able to do this.

I will tell you that the best way to "test" this concept is to do it yourself. But some people cannot learn to do this simply because they don't believe it is possible for them to learn or do. And if you do not believe something is possible it is highly unlikely you would stick to the practice long enough to learn to do it.

But if a person were really and truly interested in trying it, I would tell them to first read about it, (Robert Monroe books) and then to go to the Monroe Institute and try it.

You don't have to go there, but it would be the fastest way to learn I think.

JB

if you left your body that could only occur if the laws of physics were either alter manipulated or cancelled out in some way either by you or some other force ..

and if you are not existing within your body but outside the body as a spiritual entity or whatever then clearly the same rules wouldn't apply so you have to be existing in another parallel plane of existence

were you hovering or using gravity ..did you walk or breath ..

Do you believe it is possible for a man to pick up a pool stick and run the table without missing a shot? You probably do because you have seen it done.

Do you believe you could do it? Maybe you do, maybe you don't.

I asked a guy one time what it took to be able to shoot pool like he did. I had seen him run the table again and again. He was real good.

He said he had a pool table in his home. He played pool everyday, at least ten hours a day without fail. It takes dedication and practice to be good at anything. You are not going to run the table the first time you try.

Neither are you going to do it with just a little bit of dedication and practice. Some people will have to practice more than others, some people are naturally good at it. But the point is, if you want to do out of body travel, it takes dedication, and practice. You have to overcome the fear. Fear is what holds people back. There are a lot of unknowns in those areas of consciousness and some of them are scary.

JB

I've had a few OBEs and several NDEs as well. The first few kind of reinforced my beliefs, but the last NDE Kind of confused my beliefs. Now, I'm not sure what to make of it all.

You're entire argument seems to be based on the assumption that the laws of the material universe must apply to spiritual entities, which is fallacious simply because spiritual entities are, by definition, non-material.

To answer your questions as best I can: I moved vertically "up", then was stationary, then moved vertically "down". If you want to label that "hovering", then I guess it's as good a label as any. I was definitely not walking. I don't remember "breathing", but then I don't usually remember that anyway unless I specifically put my attention on it.

in fact I was going in the other direction that the laws of physics wouldn't apply to a spiritual entity ..as a spiriutal entity you would have been in a whole new plane of existence and in an unknown alien situation but yet you had total controlled and didn't have to adjust to anything new and didn't acquire any new knowledge from the experience ...that is the same happenstances that take place in dreams