Deb lets establish one key point here. I have NEVER once disclosed my own spirituality on this forum. The reason I have never done so is simply because I do not see the relevance. I can sit here and certainly debate from any angle I choose as we all are quite capable of doing on an electronic relay interface.

Initially you were addressing Wicca and attempting to assert that "they are all devil worshipers." You then copied and pasted a bunch of information in an effort to bolster this position and provide evidence to support this view. I read every last line of what you had posted and I found where it did in fact address Wicca specifically. The information you had provided to us clearly indicated that Wicca has no perception of a "Satan" in its teachings and its followers for all practical purposes do not adhere to the concept of a devil. Not in the same sense that the Christians accept the devil and a Satan. Lets not lose sight of that key point shall we? We both agree on this critical issue NOW and I see that you choose to recognize it. As I said, I'm glad the misconception could be cleared up. You were actually quite indispensable in this particular case as it related to establishing that fact whether you intended to be or not.

Your personal views on Christianity and what it means to you in your own life might be VERY important to you but in this particular situation, not critical in establishing how Wicca interprets or doesn't interpret the inclusion of Satan. We all know that MANY Christians have left the flock and have been forced to come to terms with a loss of faith. I don't see why we would want to push that issue when it is clearly a moot point.

This is true krisma and I apologize but was using as more of an example, not defining you per say.

And actually I never said any such things as devil worshippers because that is not what "all" of them are about. However, don't kid yourself I understand that not all witches worship Satan, and in fact most do not believe in Satan at all. Nor do they believe in hell, evil, or original sin. These groups believe that Satan is an imaginary creation of the Christian Church. If they believe in Satan at all they will tell you that the devil is just another Christian diety. (WHICH IS NOT UP TO THEM TO DETERMINE WHAT I BELIEVE EITHER) Some also do not believe in demons, and their deities are considered to be "imminent", or within each of us, meaning that everyone is actually deity.

A few groups do, however, worship Satan. During the Middle Ages, witchcraft experienced a great revival. The supernatural became very popular and superstition abounded. If someone wanted to become a witch, there was an initiation process. Some of the techniques were simple and some were complicated, but there were usually two requirements. The first was that the would-be witch must join of his or her own free will. The second requirement was that the prospective witch must be willing to worship the devil. Modern day witches, however, are not typically Satan worshipers. .

I want you to be wise in what is good and innocent in what is evil" Romans 16:19

The person involved in witchcraft may claim that the Bible does not condemn witchraft, since they assert that the real interpretation of the Hebrew word for "witchcraft" should be sorcery, divination and those who practice such things.

Response: The Bible categorically denounces any and all occultic practices.

Deuteronomy 18:10-12

Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord, and because of these detestable practices the Lord your god will drive out those nations before you.

The New Testament also condemns such practices (Galatians 5:20). In the city of Ephesus many who were practicing in the occult became believers in Jesus Christ and renounced their occultic practices. "Many also of those who practiced magic brought their books together and began burning them in the sight of all" (Acts 19:19).

Another encounter with the occult can be seen in Acts 13:6-12

And when they had gone through the whole island as far as Paphos, they found a certain magician, a Jewish false prophet whose name was Bar-Jesus, who was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus, a man of intelligence. This man summoned Barnabas and Saul and sought to hear the word of God. But Elymas the magician (for thus his name is translated) was opposing them, seeking to turn the proconsul away from the faith. But Saul, who was also known as Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, fixed his gaze upon him. And he said, "You who are full of all deceit and fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease to make crooked the straight ways of the Lord? And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon you, and you will be blind and not see the sun for a time." And immediately a mist and a darkness fell upon him, and he went about seeking those who would lead him by the hand. Then the proconsul believed when he saw what happened, being amazed at the teaching of the Lord.

The Bible in the strongest terms condemns the occult and those who practice it. The road of the occult is broad and leads to destruction, while the way of Christ is narrow and leads to life eternal.

Other Verses: Ex. 22:18; Lev. 19:26,31, 20:6,27; 1 Sam. 15:23a; 2 Kings 23:24; I Chron. 10:13; Is. 2:6, 8:19-20, 47:13-14; Ez. 13:20-23; Dan. 2:27-28, 5:15-17; Acts 13:7-10a, 16:16-18; Gal. 5:19-20; Rev. 22:15

They may argue that sorcery is black magic used for evil, and that they practice white magic, magic for good.

Response: The Bible makes no distinction between good or bad magic or sorcery. All sorcery comes from the same source and is abhorred by God. See verses above.

Many non-Christians see the return of Christ as a horrible thing. Witches will scoff at this saying "Our Goddess isn't some spiteful deity that will one day wipe out the Earth. She loves us enough to let us do what we want and make our own choices".

Response: Love implies a relationship. If the goddess is in us, if the goddess is us, and is the earth, trees and that rock over there, it is impossible to have a relationship with her and it is impossible to be loved by her. God can be separate from you and be closer than anything else. The holy spirit can be in you, yet you are not God. It is this separateness that allows Christ to strengthen us. We are weak, but through Him we have strength. Because He is distinct from us He can provide us guidance, he can listen to us, he can love us. He couldn't do this if he were only another aspect of our being or of nature.

Pagans believe there is no absolute truth, therefore, there is no right and wrong.

Response: This is immediately a contradictory statement because people who believe in an absolute truth such as the Bible must then be wrong. The pagan will admit they believe Christians are wrong, forgetting they don't believe in a right way or a wrong way. The chances of doing something in this life that doesn't affect someone else in some way at some point are very low. Without guidance or a set of moral standards, we will negatively affect someone else. This is a fact and it is sin. The pagan will argue that we shouldn't impose our beliefs on them. They will also say that we shouldn't harm the environment. But, if I'm an atheist and believe the Earth is just a rock, I should then be able to do anything I want to the environment. To say I can't, is to say my belief is wrong. The point is, it is not possible to say all ways are truth and there is no right or wrong. For the Pagan to say there is no right or wrong is to say the Earth is Goddess, but the Earth is also not Goddess because the atheist is right too. Realizing this impossibility should alert the Pagan to the reality that there is truth out there. As eternity is at stake, it is a good idea to seek it out and listen with this new appreciation for truth.

Jesus gives us a clear vision of how He wants us to live our lives. We may not always like what he says, but that doesn't mean it isn't good for us. As God gives us moral guidance, he also gives us the Holy Spirit to help us. When we accept Christ, the Holy Spirit works in us making us want to do good. Having a relationship with Christ is not a set of rules and regulations meant to punish us. It's a new life and a new appreciation for the truth. And God is there to help us.

Witches believe in endless reincarnation and Karma that is passed on from life to life as you struggle to reach enlightenment.

Response: There is no Choice in Paganism. No matter what you do or what you believe, your life is heading toward the same truth, the same goddess. This goddess offers no end to the wheel of life cycles and has nothing more to offer you than a broken record and eternal punishment for past mistakes. Jesus offers so much more. He loved us so much that He died on the cross so that we can spend eternity in heaven. He gave us choice. The choice to choose Him or not to choose to be with Him. Jesus does not demand that we spend life after life trying to improve our karma, while not remembering what we did to deserve the less-than-perfect karma rating that led us back to earth again. He does not expect you to be punished for a previous life's karma only to pass your karma on to another life for more endless punishment. All he asks is that you believe in Him and accept his free gift of an eternity with Him.

For many Pagans the Christian belief in hell is a major obstacle. They see Christians as Cruel and heartless for believing that humans would go to hell for not believing in Christ. This usually comes from an incomplete understanding of what hell is and the free will that God gave us to choose our future.

Response: First of all, Hell was created for the devil and his angels. (Matthew 25:41, 2 Peter 2:4). The devil is a sinner and has sinned from the beginning (I John 3:8). So, hell is a place for sin and death.

Why would God create a place for sinners to go, they might ask. Why would God create sin? God didn't create sin. It is a natural result of giving us free will. We are not robots put on earth and allowed only to do what God would have us do. God gave us freedom to choose and to enter into a relationship with Him freely. A relationship is no relationship at all if a person is forced to love.

Pagans will also argue that no one would choose hell, so it is only because of a lack of knowledge that they would go there and that is unfair.

Response: Throughout our society we see many people make bad choices with severe consequences and they were fully aware of their actions. People drive drunk, do drugs, and break the law. There are consequences for those actions and we don't assume they didn't know what they were doing. It all comes back to choice and freedom, something we all cherish and wouldn't want to live without.

It is not unfair to be punished for our actions. Even nature shows evidence of consequences for our actions. Believing in Christ is an action. It is the basis for how we live our lives, and there are consequences for those who choose to live apart from God just as there are consequences for those who make bad choices in society. It really isn't so foreign. Christians are those who choose to live with Christ for eternity. Non-Christians are those who don't. Heaven is a gift to those who choose it. "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life". Hell is a place for those who have chosen to live apart from God, to whom God will say "Your will be done".

Why doesn't God give us a second chance?

Response: Again this comes back to free will. If God manipulates the choice it isn't really free will is it? Choosing to follow Christ after experiencing the reality of hell is like choosing to bet on a horse race moments before the winner crosses the finish line. God made the evidence of His presence overwhelming. He gave us His Word in the Bible, He sent his Son to die for us, and he created the amazing universe we live in. He also gave us guidelines to live by because He wants peace and happiness for us. He didn't want us to live in chaos without Him, only to accept Him when the race is finished. God is a personal God who loves us and wants us to have hope, a hope that he freely gives. But, it is up to us to choose eternity with Him or apart from Him. God is honoring the right of those he created to make their own choices. We are not just a means to an end. He loves us and created us as unique individuals. He will reward us and receive us with open arms if we choose Him.

can one tree, that be of the tree of life, look to it's neighbor, and say it as as a tree of the devil, of evil, of no repute, of sinful and woeful damnation, creating fear of unconditional love that GOD was said to be, as such a tree show it eat of the poison of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and SERVE this tree as it's master, and such as these paint pictures of demise for others, and of no mercy for others, and such cannot do as this unless there be all lack of sight of oneself, seeing oneself as ALL GOOD, AND RIGHTEOUSS, which no such state of the mind was ever had by any within text that spoke of truth, not even jesus, and these serving self righteousness most and only, seek to LIFT ONESELF UP, by lowering all others that are not of the same poison tree, down to the pit of fear and hell, and unknowingly entangle and ensare all those that eat of the poison apple of the mindfs notions of self goodness......

It is true that witchcraft of most kinds was condemned in ancient societies. It could easily get a person killed that anyone thought was engaging in it.It was always this way.Any misfortune that befell a community could be blamed on witchcraft.Nobody knows if any of these people were really witches.A lot of those people were probably innocent.

Thousands of innocent women were killed because of that stupid book, and its insistence that witches be burned.

The bloody book should have been burned. Would have saved us a whole heap of trouble

indeed it was the "killers" of withces that ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, believing themself as good, and better, and of having the only "true" interpretation or knowledge of what was "good", and condemed as less and killed what was thought thru half perception with only one eye what was as "bad"..........

which taste of the rath of torment of justice.......

what the call itself as a "christian" or of any particular sec, has any "evil spirit" except what "see" others as less, as having sperned mercy, as if there is no chance beyond some certain time or words spoken, as is not "god" of no beginning or no end, having then mercy "unlimited", so what that see and END and demise and doom for others peer thru any sight of "god"............

This is the best known (i.e., the most infamous) of the witch-hunt manuals. Written in Latin, the Malleus was first submitted to the University of Cologne on May 9th, 1487. The title is translated as "The Hammer of Witches". Written by James Sprenger and Henry Kramer (of which little is known), the Malleus remained in use for three hundred years. It had tremendous influence in the witch trials in England and on the continent. This translation is in the public domain.

The Malleus was used as a judicial case-book for the detection and persecution of witches, specifying rules of evidence and the canonical procedures by which suspected witches were tortured and put to death. Thousands of people (primarily women) were judically murdered as a result of the procedures described in this book, for no reason than a strange birthmark, living alone, mental illness, cultivation of medicinal herbs, or simply because they were falsely accused (often for financial gain by the accuser). The Malleus serves as a horrible warning about what happens when intolerence takes over a society.

Although the Malleus is manifestly a document which displays the cruelty, barbarism, and ignorance of the Inquisition, it has also been interpreted as evidence of a wide-spread subterranean pagan tradition which worshiped a pre-Christian horned deity, particularly by Margaret Murray.

Having a father who is a licensed minister really prepares me for this question. My Father all though born again now had a very unique upraising and has never once censored the truth about his past to me. I grew up in the inner city so private schooling was used more to secure my education than my spiritual significance as a kid to my early teen years. To this day I use my eyes, ears and discernment to answer "these" questions, just as my dad intended. My outlook on religion is simple. Following the footsteps of others to the degree of fighting ones own personal nature just to hold your spot in "heaven" seems ridiculous. Doing so is self admittance of not seeing your body/soul as a divine power. The first step to true understanding in within yourself. Don't be afraid of having an answer that is contradictory to others. Without that balance we would have no board to weigh our own personal experience against. One day we will die and as long as you have made an honest effort towards this life you should have no troubles in the next.

calm down sweetheart, if you don't like the book, simply don't read it. What would YOU suggest we read

Instead of reading I say maybe we should all try to write our own "Bible" This is not a joke either. I ask all of you interested, to make a couple quick notes about what you think is right or wrong. Don't let any outside force influence your thinking either. In my own thoughts I see a common theme. Most of us refer to it as the "Golden Rule" do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Whether you give praise to a higher power or your self one thing is clear.. We do not like it when others call our beliefs into question. Now I can sit here and prove your god wrong just as well as you can prove him real till we are both blue in the face, but all that may do is bring insecurities into the picture. I understand it is frustrating when others can not understand you or see things from your perspective, but that is free will. Imposing on that will only bring the same kind of negative attention back to you.

{Lyric from the song Waves by Kaddisfly}
"We hardly seek, but hope to find new things."
"We'll never die, in faith, we merely dissipate"

Instead of defending your beliefs question them! A court will not accept, "The devil made me do it!" so why should you accept, "Because god said so!" When you find what it is you believe in you will know it. Much like when you find something you are good at. Keep your eyes and ears open along with a healthy amount of skepticism, and the rest should all fall in place.

Actually - I think you'll find that Alister Crowley and Anton LaVey are the ones who have latched onto it full throttle. Just in case you wanted to know that there are religions who's "divintity" is Satan.

Sorry to interrupt this thread with some facts; though - do, carry on.

Eljay if you scroll up, initially Feral had attempted to assert that ALL Wiccans were devil worshipers. She then copied and pasted a bunch of information intending to prove this fact for us all. We were comparing Wicca and Christianity as it relates to "Satan" or the concept of a "devil" I actually went through and read EVERY single line she had posted herself and brought to her attention that Wicca observes NO Satan or the conceptualization of a personified evil as in the Christian faith. I realize you are kind of coming in late though so no problem.

Also feel free to address that Neanderthal question whenever you like. Not on this thread though of course.

As far as facts go do you think that it is impossible for someone to live along the same guidelines as depicted in the Bible, "free of sin" if you will, without ever being exposed to it (the Bible/spirituality)? Other than praying and believing god will save us during the end times; What else is there to religion? A couple guidelines on living a peaceful joyous life in harmony with one? If so, there seems to be a few misconceptions and all is not going according to plan. Putting "god" in the 3rd person is as deliberately destructive as it was conceived in the the minds of men ages ago. It keeps ideologies divided for real power is in numbers. My sad truth is "bad people" have manipulated general opinions on divinity. In doing so they have created a "flock of sheep" ready to blindly follow the pack off the side of a cliff. Now I am not referring to any specific group. You know who you are and who you aren't.

The Witch Hunts were an example of medieval cruelty and barbarism.

While frequently cruel, the Witch Hunts took place after the Middle Ages and were conducted by civilized people.

The key problem is the use of the word "medieval." First, historians usually consider the Middle Ages, which began after the fall of the western half of the Roman Empire around A.D. 500 to be over by A.D. 1500. At that time, changes in the economy with capitalism, in culture with the Renaissance and in religion with the Reformation, created the Early Modern Period. The Witch Hunts, however, were just then getting started, not ending until the 1700s.

Second, the Middle Ages is often used in popular parlance to denigrate something as inferior and ignorant. In my opinion, this exaggerates the worst aspects of medieval times (religious fanaticism, primitive laws which readily apply violence, non-scientific thought, poor economic levels, and strict social hierarchies) to the disadvantage of its noble characteristics (an emphasis on faith, codes of conduct like chivalry, technological innovation, mutual obligations of social classes).

In any case, the most highly-educated, literate, well-trained, urban elites conducted most of the hunts. All the advantages of Western Civilization created the Witch Hunts and must assume responsibility for them.

The Church was to blame for the Witch Hunts.

While Christianity clearly created the framework for the Witch Hunts, no single "Church" was to blame, and many secular governments hunted witches for essentially non-religious reasons.

When the Witch Hunts first began to intensify, in the 1400s, one church hierarchy, what I call the Latin Catholic Church, dominated Western Civilization. Even within that one church, however, uniformity in all matters of faith and belief had not been fully imposed.

During the Middle Ages, the predominant Christian view of witchcraft was that it was an illusion. People might think they were witches, but they were fooling themselves, or the Devil was fooling them. Most authorities thought that witchcraft could do no serious harm, because it was not real. It took the arguments of theologians, a number of inquisitor’s manuals, and a series of papal bulls (written letters of judgment and command) to contradict that traditional Christian idea, and identify witchcraft with a dangerous heresy. Ultimately in 1484, Pope Innocent VIII, in his bull Summis desiderantes, let the Inquisition pursue witches.

There is some legitimate historical debate, though, about how far the bull applied throughout the church, and how many church authorities really believed that witches were a serious danger. In any case, just about at that time the "Church" broke apart because of the Reformation. While Roman Catholicism redefined itself under a papal magisterium, Lutheranism, Calvinism and Anglicanism asserted other sources for divine authority.

Surprisingly, the Protestant reformers often agreed with Rome, that witches were a clear and present danger. All four of the major western Christian "churches" (Roman Catholic, Lutheran, Calvinist, Anglican) persecuted witches to some degree or another. (Eastern Christian, or Orthodox Churches carried out almost no witch hunting).

None of these persecutions could have been carried out without the permission and cooperation of secular governments. In only a few small regions, like the Papal States and various Prince-Bishoprics in Germany, were religious and temporal government leaders one and the same. But in all the rest of Western Europe, secular princes ultimately decided whether or not witches were hunted. Still, religious leaders carry a large share of the blame for the hunts, since secular princes often hunted witches on the advice of the clergy. Princes hunted witches because Church leaders taught them that witches were disturbers of the peace, destructors of property, and killers of animals and people.

The Witch Hunts specifically targeted women.

While many witch hunters explicitly went after women, very often men fell victim to the witch hunts.

Through most of recorded history, in most civilizations, until the last hundred years or so, women have been subordinated to men. Many witch hunters, particularly the authors of the Malleus Maleficarum, held that women were far more susceptible to temptation by the Devil, and thus more frequently became witches. Some witch hunts did almost exclusively target women, in percentages as high as 95% of the victims. Another interesting point is that the members of the legal system its "judges, ministers, priests, constables, jailers, judges, doctors, prickers, torturers, jurors, executioners" were nearly 100 percent male (Anne L. Barstow, Witchcraze: A New History of the European Witch Hunts: Our Legacy of Violence Against Women (San Francisco: Pandora/Harper Collins, 1994), 142).

Nonetheless, men were often accused of being witches, and executed for it. (The frequent use of "warlock" to describe a male witch is largely based on Hollywood scriptwriters, especially for the 1958 movie Bell, Book, and Candle or the 1960s sitcom, Bewitched.) In some areas, like Russia, the large majority of victims were male. Further, women did participate in the system, as accusers, witnesses, and sometimes as examiners, prickers, food providers, and jail personnel.

There are reasons why we should look at some aspects of the witch hunt as a crime against women, yet we should not go too far to make it only about women. I agree with Christine Larner who states that "Witchcraft was not sex-specific, but it was sex-related."

The Witch Hunts were an attempt at "femicide" or "gendercide," meaning the persecution of the female sex, equivalent to genocide.

While a few witch hunters abhorred all women, the necessity for women to be involved in procreation of our species and the lack of means to carry out the extermination of every woman prevented any realistic approach toward genocide.

Accordingly, some feminists use these descriptions of the Witch Hunts as a rallying cry to complain about ongoing male oppression. But it is absurd to compare the Witch Hunts with a genuine attempted genocide, such as the Holocaust/Shoah/Final Solution done by the German Third Reich during World War II. The Nazis had the means (the death camps) and had the will (anti-Semitic ideology) to carry out a genocide.

In no conceivable way could have or would have Western Europeans killed all women between 1400 and 1800. Killing all the women could not be done by early modern methods of execution, nor were all women considered worthy of death by any governing authority. There is no evidence that even the worst witch hunters wanted all women dead.

The Witch Hunts are/were all alike.

While the Witch Hunts share some essential similarities, they were enormously different depending on time and place.

Briefly, most witch hunts involved government authorities deciding that a problem with witches existed. Usually the danger was seen in an organized conspiracy led by the Devil. Or the concern was witches causing harm (maleficia) through spells: raising storms, killing people or livestock, and/or causing bad luck. The authorities then pursued an investigation that often included secret informants and torture to acquire information and confessions. Finally, convicted witches were often executed. Some hunts involved only a few condemned, others might exterminate hundreds.

Some parts of Europe suffered many intense hunts, such as provinces in France and Germany; others experienced several moderate persecutions, such as England or Hungary; others held comparatively few trials, such as Spain or the Dutch Netherlands. None of the hunts were constant over the years 1400 to 1800, but came in concentrated periods, especially intense between 1550 and 1650.

Historians are still trying to explain the reasons for this great variety in witch hunting. Important factors could have been: the power of the central government; the independence of local authorities; tensions created by war, failing economies, or famine; and uncertainties about religious conformity.

The bigger question is why the authorities would consider the witches a danger (as opposed to traditional scapegoats like Jews, heretics, homosexuals, foreigners, or even sorcerers)? Specific hunts were often rooted in specific local circumstances. Still, historians have tried to come up with general explanations for the complex phenomenon of witch hunts. One should be wary of any author who suggests one cause for all the Witch Hunts.

Millions of people died because of the Witch Hunts.

While millions of people might have been affected, the best estimates of recent historians range from 50,000 to 200,000 dead.

The earlier estimates, too often the figure of 9 to 10 million dead is cited, were grossly exaggerated; no respectable historian supports them anymore. Modern figures concerning the number of executed witches are based on a much closer examination of the surviving historical records, combined with reasonable guesswork and statistical analysis for those areas and periods lacking clear sources. The hunts were anything but constant, systematic or frequent.

That some villages were wiped out by witch hunters is also an exaggeration. There is little evidence for such devastation. One extreme example is reported from 1589, where only two women were left in one village in the Trier diocese after a hunt (Wolfang Behringer, ed. Hexen und Hexenprozesse in Deutschland, 4th ed. (Munich: Deutscher Taschenbuch Verlag, 2000), 205, #124). But that left the men. In any case, such thoroughness and ferocity were extremely rare. Further, any particular area had hunts irregularly, and many regions had no hunts at all.

Even the much lower figure of under 50,000 dead would have meant over a hundred thousand put on trial. Then, considering all the personnel involved in the justice system as court officials and witnesses, friends and family members, and those who even felt the "fear" caused by the hunts, millions of people’s lives changed, usually for the worse, because of the witch hunts.

People condemned during the Witch Hunts were burned at the stake.

While indeed governments did burn many witches at the stake, most were executed by other means.

The favorite neo-pagan term for the period of the Witch Hunts is "the Burning Times." The most common form of execution, though, was hanging. Admittedly, burning was important in many of these cases also, since to further protect against any malevolence from the dead witch, authorities often burned the remains afterward. Other popular forms of execution for witches included beheading, drowning, and breaking on the wheel. Witches were rarely buried alive, boiled alive, impaled, sawed in two, flayed, drawn and quartered, or disemboweled, as other contemporary criminals were. Other punishments inflicted on convicted witches included mutilating (cutting off of a hand or ear for example), branding, whipping, dunking, locking in the the stocks, jailing, fining, banishing, or selling into slavery.

A notoriously common myth is that the alleged witches at Salem in colonial Massachusetts were burned. All of the convicted during the Salem Witch Hunt in 1692 died by hanging. Others died by natural causes before conviction or execution, and Giles Corey was pressed to death. In fact, no witches were executed by burning in the English colonies of North America. English law did not permit it.

While some people have claimed to be able to work witchcraft, there is no scientific, empirical, reasonable proof that any actual witches existed or that the magic they claimed to perform actually did what it was supposed to do.

Likewise, some people today claim to be witches or believers in various metaphysical systems like Wicca, Neo-paganism or Satanism. Now, I myself am a strong supporter of religious freedom and religious toleration. And all religions, including Christianity, have elements of the nonsensical, absurd and improbable. Thus, I consider that any people who like to think that they are themselves witches, are free to do so.

But no one has been able to prove that things like magic/magick, paranormal phenomena, occult powers have any scientific validity. All such supernatural stuff, from alien visits to earth to the Devil possessing young girls, is insufficiently supported by sound facts, both historically and today.

Also 24 were killed in the Salem Witch trials and hundreds were judged. No with was burned at the stake all were hung.

Krimsa wrote:

Initially you were addressing Wicca and attempting to assert that "they are all devil worshipers." You then copied and pasted a bunch of information in an effort to bolster this position and provide evidence to support this view. I read every last line of what you had posted and I found where it did in fact address Wicca specifically. The information you had provided to us clearly indicated that Wicca has no perception of a "Satan" in its teachings and its followers for all practical purposes do not adhere to the concept of a devil. Not in the same sense that the Christians accept the devil and a Satan. Lets not lose sight of that key point shall we? We both agree on this critical issue NOW and I see that you choose to recognize it. As I said, I'm glad the misconception could be cleared up. You were actually quite indispensable in this particular case as it related to establishing that fact whether you intended to be or not.

Debbie writes:


This is what I said..and please people if your going to quote me get it RIGHT. So please read more carefully

THIS IS WHAT I WROTE:

And actually I never said any such things as devil worshippers because that is not what "all" of them are about. However, don't kid yourself I understand that not all witches worship Satan, and in fact most do not believe in Satan at all. Nor do they believe in hell, evil, or original sin. These groups believe that Satan is an imaginary creation of the Christian Church. If they believe in Satan at all they will tell you that the devil is just another Christian diety. (WHICH IS NOT UP TO THEM TO DETERMINE WHAT I BELIEVE EITHER) Some also do not believe in demons, and their deities are considered to be "imminent", or within each of us, meaning that everyone is actually deity.

A few groups do, however, worship Satan. During the Middle Ages, witchcraft experienced a great revival. The supernatural became very popular and superstition abounded. If someone wanted to become a witch, there was an initiation process. Some of the techniques were simple and some were complicated, but there were usually two requirements. The first was that the would-be witch must join of his or her own free will. The second requirement was that the prospective witch must be willing to worship the devil. Modern day witches, however, are not typically Satan worshipers. .

This was copied and pasted from your OWN information that you were using in an attempt to somehow link Wicca with devil worship. You obviously did not take the time to read it before posting and were left with egg on your face.




Neopaganism

Christian tradition has frequently identified pagan religions and witchcraft with the influence of Satan. In the Middle Ages, the Church accused alleged witches of consorting and conspiring with Satan. Several modern conservative Christian writers, such as Jack Chick and James Dobson, have depicted today's neopagan and witchcraft religions as explicitly Satanic.

Few neopagan reconstructionist traditions recognize Satan or the Devil outright. However, many neopagan groups worship some sort of Horned God, for example as a consort of the Great Goddess in Wicca. These gods usually reflect mythological figures such as Cernunnos or Pan, and any similarity they may have to the Christian Devil seems to date back only to the 19th century, when a Christian reaction to Pan's growing importance in literature and art resulted in his image being translated to that of the Devil.[7]

New Age movement

Participants in the New Age movement have widely varied views about Satan, the Devil, and so forth. In some forms of Esoteric Christianity Satan remains as a being of evil, or at least a metaphor for sin and materialism, but the most widespread tendency is to deny his existence altogether. Lucifer, on the other hand, in the original Roman sense of "light-bringer", occasionally appears in the literature of certain groups as a metaphorical figure quite distinct from Satan, and without any implications of evil. For example, Theosophy founder Madame Blavatsky named her journal Lucifer since she intended it to be a "bringer of light". Many New Age schools of thought follow a nondualistic philosophy that does not recognize a primal force for evil. Even when a dualistic model is followed, this is more often akin to the Chinese system of yin and yang, in which good and evil are explicitly not a complementary duality. Schools of thought that do stress a spiritual war between good and evil or light and darkness include the philosophy of Rudolf Steiner, Agni Yoga, and the Church Universal and Triumphant.

I was not referring to that one...I did give my personal views on Wicca and it clearly stated that they don't believe in satan....so who is not reading.......


this is what I said....this was not a copy and paste darling

And actually I never said any such things as devil worshippers because that is not what "all" of them are about. However, don't kid yourself I understand that not all witches worship Satan, and in fact most do not believe in Satan at all. Nor do they believe in hell, evil, or original sin. These groups believe that Satan is an imaginary creation of the Christian Church. If they believe in Satan at all they will tell you that the devil is just another Christian diety. (WHICH IS NOT UP TO THEM TO DETERMINE WHAT I BELIEVE EITHER) Some also do not believe in demons, and their deities are considered to be "imminent", or within each of us, meaning that everyone is actually deity.