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| Topic: How to have an adult conversation | |
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Spiders rule #4 Adults are not offended by the beliefs of others. Adults are forced to live in a world where everyone has their own beliefs. As a consequence, adults believe in the plurality of ideas. That means this: I may not like your beliefs, I may not respect your beliefs, but I will allow you to believe the way you do without being offended by your beliefs. Spider it seems that both you and Wouldee claim you are not offended by the beliefs of others. I have to remind you that the beliefs of others conflict with Christianity which has usually been shoved down their throats their entire lives. Therefore, even when a person turns his beliefs to something other that Christianity, and Christianity is all that they have been brought up with and told is true, they FIRST have to reject Christianity in order to move forward. This rejection of Christianity is necessary and part of the process of getting out of the cult. I had to do it with Eckankar. I had to reject it and investigate it and learn that it was a lie and declare that it was a lie. (I had already rejected Christianity at a younger age.) Our rejection of Christianity is part of our spiritual evolution and part of the spiritual evolution of all of man kind. You have no business standing in the way of people's spiritual paths and part of that path is to reject the current status quo and stating so to those who would still try to convince us otherwise. In doing so, some Christians are going to feel insulted (Like you and Wouldee) but you will never admit that you are. You are obviously. Perhaps because your own core belief system is faltering. You are questioning your own beliefs. You are fighting to hang on to them and lashing out at others who have made a step FORWARD to spiritual freedom and enlightenment. JB the insults are from such as you describe but tht doesn't insult me I am addressing the bad manners and the insulting behavior I could give a rip who is insulted it's about the amoral attack agenda that is a form of verbal genocide of civilized msanners in the forum that is the swer of such hidden agendas and backlashes that have no place hwere there is no moral equivalence for it it is just marginal licentiousness with excuses there are no valid excuses for this type of thing Abra is the master all others learned from him done he is called and proved everytime he does it learn grow and be at peace |
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The other point that I think needs to be made here is that the OP pretty much represents the Christian mentality. Rather than just enjoying life for their own sake, they try to define and control how everyone else should behave. You’re never going to enjoy life if you always go around trying to define how others need to behave and passing judgments on their behavior based on your own judgmental standards. That’s the heart of bigotry and prejudice. You can only be responsible for your own life and your own actions. You can give friends support, and offer other people wisdom. But to become upset when they don’t buy it is truly childish and immature. Who pays for that? You do! You seem to be the one who is always upset Spider. You’re causing your own anguish. No one else is forcing you to react to life in this way. The choice is entirely yours. You’re clearly just upset because you can’t compete on a solely intellectual level, so you have to stoop to trying to discredit those you cannot rebut. You just sound like a sinking ship sending out it’s final S.O.S. I’ll gladly discuss any issue with you head-on and not even come close to making it personal. I don’t take things personal. My comments are entirely logical arguments. If I say that I think it makes no sense for an all-loving God to thrive on blood sacrifices. That’s a logical argument. It’s not meant to be taken as “I think people who believe this are stupid”. That’s definitely not what I said. Hell, I used to believe it myself at one time, and I don’t think I’m stupid. But you do seem to be the master of twisting words around. You’ll take a perfectly logical statement and twist it around trying to claim that it is a personal insult when it was never intended as such. According to you, anything that suggests that the biblical story might not be correct is an insult! That’s absurd in and of itself. All you’re trying to do there is renounce freedom of speech. Please! Don’t take us back to the dark ages! I personally feel that any true adult is capable of discussing any idea whether it agrees with their own personal beliefs or not. As a scientist I certainly do this all the time. I have to consider all possibilities. And not be offended when someone suggests that something I believe might not be true. People suggest to me all the time that evolution isn’t true. I’m not offended by that. I just think their wrong. 
you know this all too well. He gets it abra you don't fool him you're done being your own best secret get used to it you can't have your way forever bashing people into the ground just learn to regain your perspective and be real and stand on your own nmerits without telling others what theirs are and you will find that you will heal, abra Spider has chosen to ignore Abracadabra, so what did he do, ask you to speak for him? nope Spider and I do not chat on e-mail and conspire against you or anyone why do you ask? |
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Spiders rule #4 Adults are not offended by the beliefs of others. Adults are forced to live in a world where everyone has their own beliefs. As a consequence, adults believe in the plurality of ideas. That means this: I may not like your beliefs, I may not respect your beliefs, but I will allow you to believe the way you do without being offended by your beliefs. Spider it seems that both you and Wouldee claim you are not offended by the beliefs of others. I have to remind you that the beliefs of others conflict with Christianity which has usually been shoved down their throats their entire lives. Therefore, even when a person turns his beliefs to something other that Christianity, and Christianity is all that they have been brought up with and told is true, they FIRST have to reject Christianity in order to move forward. This rejection of Christianity is necessary and part of the process of getting out of the cult. I had to do it with Eckankar. I had to reject it and investigate it and learn that it was a lie and declare that it was a lie. (I had already rejected Christianity at a younger age.) Our rejection of Christianity is part of our spiritual evolution and part of the spiritual evolution of all of man kind. You have no business standing in the way of people's spiritual paths and part of that path is to reject the current status quo and stating so to those who would still try to convince us otherwise. In doing so, some Christians are going to feel insulted (Like you and Wouldee) but you will never admit that you are. You are obviously. Perhaps because your own core belief system is faltering. You are questioning your own beliefs. You are fighting to hang on to them and lashing out at others who have made a step FORWARD to spiritual freedom and enlightenment. JB the insults are from such as you describe but tht doesn't insult me I am addressing the bad manners and the insulting behavior I could give a rip who is insulted it's about the amoral attack agenda that is a form of verbal genocide of civilized msanners in the forum that is the swer of such hidden agendas and backlashes that have no place hwere there is no moral equivalence for it it is just marginal licentiousness with excuses there are no valid excuses for this type of thing Abra is the master all others learned from him done he is called and proved everytime he does it learn grow and be at peace No offense wouldee but are you and I reading the same Abra? Cause I don't find all this offensiveness nor do I see all this back sliding or whatever sooooooo could it be the interpretation of an individuals feelings when they read Abra? Just wondering cause I have yet to be offended on the religious threads once yet. 
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Spiders rule #4 Adults are not offended by the beliefs of others. Adults are forced to live in a world where everyone has their own beliefs. As a consequence, adults believe in the plurality of ideas. That means this: I may not like your beliefs, I may not respect your beliefs, but I will allow you to believe the way you do without being offended by your beliefs. Spider it seems that both you and Wouldee claim you are not offended by the beliefs of others. I have to remind you that the beliefs of others conflict with Christianity which has usually been shoved down their throats their entire lives. Therefore, even when a person turns his beliefs to something other that Christianity, and Christianity is all that they have been brought up with and told is true, they FIRST have to reject Christianity in order to move forward. This rejection of Christianity is necessary and part of the process of getting out of the cult. I had to do it with Eckankar. I had to reject it and investigate it and learn that it was a lie and declare that it was a lie. (I had already rejected Christianity at a younger age.) Our rejection of Christianity is part of our spiritual evolution and part of the spiritual evolution of all of man kind. You have no business standing in the way of people's spiritual paths and part of that path is to reject the current status quo and stating so to those who would still try to convince us otherwise. In doing so, some Christians are going to feel insulted (Like you and Wouldee) but you will never admit that you are. You are obviously. Perhaps because your own core belief system is faltering. You are questioning your own beliefs. You are fighting to hang on to them and lashing out at others who have made a step FORWARD to spiritual freedom and enlightenment. JB the insults are from such as you describe but tht doesn't insult me I am addressing the bad manners and the insulting behavior I could give a rip who is insulted it's about the amoral attack agenda that is a form of verbal genocide of civilized msanners in the forum that is the swer of such hidden agendas and backlashes that have no place hwere there is no moral equivalence for it it is just marginal licentiousness with excuses there are no valid excuses for this type of thing Abra is the master all others learned from him done he is called and proved everytime he does it learn grow and be at peace No offense wouldee but are you and I reading the same Abra? Cause I don't find all this offensiveness nor do I see all this back sliding or whatever sooooooo could it be the interpretation of an individuals feelings when they read Abra? Just wondering cause I have yet to be offended on the religious threads once yet.
he does it when attacking any christian with his machinations you would not know his sting.\ when he is not attacjking Christianity and twisting it to support his pantheistic views, abra is quite the charmer fortunately, it is not something that you will ever endre from him he has a hidden agenda and not until he took it too far did all of this starrt. No problem though He will calm down and get it right over time peace  
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Check out proverbs, chapter 9, says much the same thing, but more elegantly. And besides, it depends on what your definition of "adult" is. I did kind of notice some folks getting under your skin in this forum. Best to have thick skin and take stuff with a grain of salt (several!). 
You and I have different ideas of what "getting under your skin" means. In my mind, it means "hit a nerve" or "offended". When I have gotten upset in these forums, it's almost always because someone has made a poorly thought out arguement, rejected the facts or offered backhanded insults. It's the behavior that really bothers me, we are all adults here after all. |
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you know this all too well. He gets it abra you don't fool him you're done being your own best secret get used to it you can't have your way forever bashing people into the ground just learn to regain your perspective and be real and stand on your own nmerits without telling others what theirs are and you will find that you will heal, abra Now you’ve just accused me of bashing people into the ground. May I ask you to explain where I have done this? In the post that you’ve quoted I merely addressed the very topics that Spider started in this thread. There was certainly nothing in that post that bashed Spider. I merely suggested that if he isn’t pleased with his choices in life, he must be making the wrong ones. He doesn’t need to chose to be upset. He can choose to be light-hearted and not be upset. I do it all the time. Really, it’s quite easy. Just don’t let things bother you. I’m just sharing wisdom with him. He doesn’t need to take. That too is his free choice. But to accuse me of bashing people into the ground is totally unwarranted. I haven't done that.
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Thu 05/08/08 06:08 PM
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I do not force my beliefs on anyone, never have.
I have stayed quietly on the sidelines, until it became clear that others who have a need to destroy christianity to make themselves feel better would wish to tell me what to do and what to think. We who you imagine have a "need" to destroy Christianity only need to clear it out of our own lives and heads in order to move forward. You and most Christians I know are not comfortable forcing their beliefs on others, and don't get enraged and insulted by the shedding of our Christianity, which by the way, is a very difficult and painful process. This process would not even continue if it were not for the fact that Christianity, of which we no longer practice, is still a major force in this society and has to be constantly guarded against as it comes in many guises and many different denominations, all still seeking converts. If a former cult I was involved in was as numerous as Christianity, it would be that religion that would be the one to keep in check. I would not want that religion to come into my town and start gaining converts because I know for a fact it is a lie. I would loudly resist it, for to keep quiet is to silently agree to it. It is the same with Christianity. To keep quiet, is to silently agree to it, as it is assumed that silence means acceptance. Wouldee has said that same thing. He feels that his silence makes a statement of some sort so he speaks out against those who disagree with his beliefs. This I understand, but he does not understand that this works both ways. As I would not sit silently while a cult like Eckankar proclaims they are the only true path to God, I will do the same with Christianity when I feel I need to. To keep silent comes with the assumption that I approve. I do not. JB |
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Yes, quit arguing like children and argue like adults, dagnabbit!
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you know this all too well. He gets it abra you don't fool him you're done being your own best secret get used to it you can't have your way forever bashing people into the ground just learn to regain your perspective and be real and stand on your own nmerits without telling others what theirs are and you will find that you will heal, abra Now you’ve just accused me of bashing people into the ground. May I ask you to explain where I have done this? In the post that you’ve quoted I merely addressed the very topics that Spider started in this thread. There was certainly nothing in that post that bashed Spider. I merely suggested that if he isn’t pleased with his choices in life, he must be making the wrong ones. He doesn’t need to chose to be upset. He can choose to be light-hearted and not be upset. I do it all the time. Really, it’s quite easy. Just don’t let things bother you. I’m just sharing wisdom with him. He doesn’t need to take. That too is his free choice. But to accuse me of bashing people into the ground is totally unwarranted. I haven't done that.
abra you don't live in a vacuum every thread and every post of yours relating to Christianity is laced with your contempt. Why are contexts so difficult for you. This ends when you and others agree to display good manners and be civil it's that simple conduct yourself like a gentle man and there will be no need for you, of all people, to feign innocense when it is selsctive for you to do so Your first response to Spider showed your obvious contempt this is bigger than just spider, abra much bigger |
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Yes, quit arguing like children and argue like adults, dagnabbit! you know George, I think the situation here is really beyond repair. It is sad. It's all about ideas and beliefs. All of them are valid. Why must we all be right all the time? |
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Spiders rule #4 Adults are not offended by the beliefs of others. Adults are forced to live in a world where everyone has their own beliefs. As a consequence, adults believe in the plurality of ideas. That means this: I may not like your beliefs, I may not respect your beliefs, but I will allow you to believe the way you do without being offended by your beliefs. Spider it seems that both you and Wouldee claim you are not offended by the beliefs of others. I have to remind you that the beliefs of others conflict with Christianity which has usually been shoved down their throats their entire lives. Therefore, even when a person turns his beliefs to something other that Christianity, and Christianity is all that they have been brought up with and told is true, they FIRST have to reject Christianity in order to move forward. This rejection of Christianity is necessary and part of the process of getting out of the cult. I had to do it with Eckankar. I had to reject it and investigate it and learn that it was a lie and declare that it was a lie. (I had already rejected Christianity at a younger age.) Our rejection of Christianity is part of our spiritual evolution and part of the spiritual evolution of all of man kind. You have no business standing in the way of people's spiritual paths and part of that path is to reject the current status quo and stating so to those who would still try to convince us otherwise. In doing so, some Christians are going to feel insulted (Like you and Wouldee) but you will never admit that you are. You are obviously. Perhaps because your own core belief system is faltering. You are questioning your own beliefs. You are fighting to hang on to them and lashing out at others who have made a step FORWARD to spiritual freedom and enlightenment. JB the insults are from such as you describe but tht doesn't insult me I am addressing the bad manners and the insulting behavior I could give a rip who is insulted it's about the amoral attack agenda that is a form of verbal genocide of civilized msanners in the forum that is the swer of such hidden agendas and backlashes that have no place hwere there is no moral equivalence for it it is just marginal licentiousness with excuses there are no valid excuses for this type of thing Abra is the master all others learned from him done he is called and proved everytime he does it learn grow and be at peace No offense wouldee but are you and I reading the same Abra? Cause I don't find all this offensiveness nor do I see all this back sliding or whatever sooooooo could it be the interpretation of an individuals feelings when they read Abra? Just wondering cause I have yet to be offended on the religious threads once yet.
he does it when attacking any christian with his machinations you would not know his sting.\ when he is not attacjking Christianity and twisting it to support his pantheistic views, abra is quite the charmer fortunately, it is not something that you will ever endre from him he has a hidden agenda and not until he took it too far did all of this starrt. No problem though He will calm down and get it right over time peace
Okay, so because I am not Christian anymore I will not be offended by Abra? Well, is it possible that Abra's rejection of the conventional beliefs of Christianity are his personal belief ant he should have the right to them? I am just wondering. And spider, you present bible versus as fact and that is not true for all. I do not believe the bible is fact at all and others feel the same as I do. Facts are irrefutable facts not bible "facts". The book cannot be verified as the word of god, it has to be believed to be so and that makes it a doctrine of religion not a fact book. |
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Vanity, kiddo, it's all vanity, you know. At least that's what Ecclesiastes will tell us!
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every thread and every post of yours relating to Christianity is laced with your contempt.
Christians think that anyone who suggests that the Bible might be flawed is contemptible. I’m sure this is true Wouldee.
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Yes, quit arguing like children and argue like adults, dagnabbit! Argument (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/argument) 2 a: a reason given in proof or rebuttal b: discourse intended to persuade 3 a: the act or process of arguing : argumentation b: a coherent series of statements leading from a premise to a conclusion c: quarrel, disagreement The context of my statements indicates that I am using defintion 2, but you appear to be using definition 3. Remember to always pay attention to the context and know your definitions. |
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Yes, quit arguing like children and argue like adults, dagnabbit! you know George, I think the situation here is really beyond repair. It is sad. It's all about ideas and beliefs. All of them are valid. Why must we all be right all the time? It's not about ideas or beliefs, it's about ideals. The ideal that adults can have civilized and reasonable discussions. |
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The Jedi Creed: 1)Jedi are the guardians of peace in the Galaxy. 2)Jedi use their powers to defend and protect, never to attack others. 3)Jedi respect all life, in any form. 4)Jedi serve others rather than rule over them, for the good of the Galaxy. 5)Jedi seek to improve themselves through knowledge and training These are my rules for adult conversation We should all follow these rules
Just for you mirror, I will
Dragoness
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And spider, you present bible versus as fact and that is not true for all. I do not believe the bible is fact at all and others feel the same as I do. Facts are irrefutable facts not bible "facts". The book cannot be verified as the word of god, it has to be believed to be so and that makes it a doctrine of religion not a fact book. This is not true, I don't. I have used verses from the Bible to support Christian beliefs, but not as fact. I'm afraid you just made a gratuitous assertion, but I felt that you were probably just carried by your emotions so I answered it with a factually sound and reasoned argument. |
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Edited by
Britty
on
Thu 05/08/08 06:29 PM
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response to JB
I feel you are fighting against what I consider to be 'churchianity'. Like you say "To keep silent comes with the assumption that I approve. I do not. " I do not either. I see no need to try to silence every christian just because of some that you do not approve of. I do not 'imagine', I know. |
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Spiders rule #4 Adults are not offended by the beliefs of others. Adults are forced to live in a world where everyone has their own beliefs. As a consequence, adults believe in the plurality of ideas. That means this: I may not like your beliefs, I may not respect your beliefs, but I will allow you to believe the way you do without being offended by your beliefs. Spider it seems that both you and Wouldee claim you are not offended by the beliefs of others. I have to remind you that the beliefs of others conflict with Christianity which has usually been shoved down their throats their entire lives. Therefore, even when a person turns his beliefs to something other that Christianity, and Christianity is all that they have been brought up with and told is true, they FIRST have to reject Christianity in order to move forward. This rejection of Christianity is necessary and part of the process of getting out of the cult. I had to do it with Eckankar. I had to reject it and investigate it and learn that it was a lie and declare that it was a lie. (I had already rejected Christianity at a younger age.) Our rejection of Christianity is part of our spiritual evolution and part of the spiritual evolution of all of man kind. You have no business standing in the way of people's spiritual paths and part of that path is to reject the current status quo and stating so to those who would still try to convince us otherwise. In doing so, some Christians are going to feel insulted (Like you and Wouldee) but you will never admit that you are. You are obviously. Perhaps because your own core belief system is faltering. You are questioning your own beliefs. You are fighting to hang on to them and lashing out at others who have made a step FORWARD to spiritual freedom and enlightenment. JB the insults are from such as you describe but tht doesn't insult me I am addressing the bad manners and the insulting behavior I could give a rip who is insulted it's about the amoral attack agenda that is a form of verbal genocide of civilized msanners in the forum that is the swer of such hidden agendas and backlashes that have no place hwere there is no moral equivalence for it it is just marginal licentiousness with excuses there are no valid excuses for this type of thing Abra is the master all others learned from him done he is called and proved everytime he does it learn grow and be at peace It is not "bad manners" to expose the lies or flaws of cults(religions) like Eckankar and Christianity or any other religion with the facts or the hard questions. Hard as it may be for people to understand, this is a free discussion forum and it does not have rules about only agreeing with or being silent about assertions about Christianity or that disagreeing is "bad manners." You are saying that the act of dismantling Christianity in any way is a no-no. You are saying that it is an attack. You are saying that it is insulting. If the origins and stories involving Christianity are a lies, they need to be dismantled. You are accusing people of having "hidden agendas." They aren't hidden wouldee. Everyone knows where everyone else stands who has read these threads. If I am delicate and polite, or otherwise not direct and to the point, you say that my agenda is "hidden" when I am only attempting to use good manners to avoid hurt feelings. If I am direct and strait forward with the truth as I see it, you say that I am "attacking" Christianity. The truth is, I see Christianity as a cult, and based on a possible myth. But I have not completely ruled out the possibility that it is partly true and that some creator God incarnated to the earth for some purpose unknown to me. JB |
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Spoken like a true Jedi, Mirror. And for some, it's like the Monty Python skit. I'm not here for an argument....
('twas called the argument clinic, I believe). No it wasn't.... |
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