"Shag-well." Think we knew already. (Wow, I guess I'm a jerk too!)

Abra, would you take another look at my last post. I made an edit (as of 08:56 AM, it says, but I'm not sure if that's relative to me only) that I'd like you to see. It's at the end and discusses agnosticism. ;-)

Hey, Smiless. Cool to see you here.

Ah, you're right: It was clumsy of me to use the word theory and not...speculation, idea, or hypothesis.

Hear that everyone, in Science, the word theory is equivalent to the word fact, okay? To say Theory of Evolution is equivalent to saying Fact of Evolution!
(This was once an annoying and reoccurring theme in threads on a science and religion forum I once found.)



This was really clever...it's called the Squeeze Theorem, lols.

Abra, you writing is very compelling. I feel like you do on many accounts, but the way I look at it isn't as thought-through as your writing. You really should write a book because some of these arguments...are really, really convincing the way you word them.

Of course, if you write a book...then you sort of join the ranks of the Paper Popes (a good title for a book by the way )!

Oh, and if one day you do sit down to write a book or two, I volunteer to give it a good look through or two. ;-P


There is one hole I found to poke, although, seeing as you are agnostic, perhaps on a personal level this is a non-issue to you:

Well, in history, we've come up with plenty of divine, supreme beings who fit that category. I admit, they are not supreme in terms of intelligence, power, or kindness; they are supreme, perhaps, in the sense that Taco Bell's Burrito Supreme is supreme - it's big, and it kicks ass.

The point being is, why does God have to be infinite, all-powerful, super-intelligent, and absolutely kind? Maybe he is just as juvenile and self-important as the Bible writes? Maybe he told everyone to say good things about him or else...just 'cause it made he feel better?

Just like the Giant Intergalactic Robot scenario (not my own invention, so I can't take credit), I can very easily give you a history of the Bible's God that fits on all accounts.

I know you are agnostic, so maybe you're beyond this:
Perhaps the beneficent and infinite being that many of us believe or hope to exist...doesn't exist. Maybe believing that he is there gives us some comfort. Maybe feeling that such a powerful being is at all interested in we puny, little humans is but a result of our narcissism.

Maybe Heaven is a lie? A fairytale to comfort children.



Lastly, you write that perhaps everyone, in their heart of hearts, is agnostic. I think that's an accurate statement, and is useful in pointing something important. When you say that everyone is agnostic, I think you're implying that in everyone's heart, they truly *do not know* whether God exists or not. This implies the fact that they *do not know* is a deep, dark secret that they don't even want to admit to themselves. One may wonder if they fear this uncertainty. One may wonder if at the core of our religious and spiritual beliefs is the fear of our insignificance, or of being alone without someone to look out for us in this great, unfriendly universe.

However, this truth or opinion is best kept a little hushed, because it is a serious challenge to everyone's beliefs. We've been challenging people's beliefs all along, but at least it was on their own turf. This agnosticism deal is telling them that they are not who they think they are, that they are unknowingly hiding from themselves their fears and doubts. I think that hits a little too close to home for most people, and perhaps...if you ever choose to write a book, you'll leave out this particular opinion...at least until you write your second book. ^_^

Oohhh...I thought your English was just...not so good. You might have been a foreigner, and there are plenty Americans who aren't such good writers.

I thought you wrote "mere Christianity answers that in the first section" to mean "even the humble faith of Christianity answers that in the first book called Genesis." Well, phrased the first way, can you see how your comment looked like a challenge from an arrogant Christian? It did to me at least...though, perhaps I should have been a little more reserved in my rebuttal. ^_^

You're right, the interpretation I offered was quite biased (I wouldn't call it ignorant though, but then again, I'm the one who wrote it! hehe). If you look back, however, I was careful to mention that I offer but ONE interpretation, and not necessarily the *correct* interpretation, or even the interpretation that *I* personally hold.

Next time, when you are mentioning a book title, please stick to convention and put it in quotes.

I know the English language is a bit crazy, but certain practices were made standard for a reason - to avoid confusion. The response to your comment took a bit of time to write, so I suffered too, lol!

I'll check out "Mere Christianity." Thanks a lot for the letting us know about it, and sorry for the misunderstanding.

I may sound like I'm playing around, but I'm being serious.

There is nothing wrong with writing in the spirit. You just need to go over and do a spelling and grammar check.

Let's just say that when the spirit is channeled through finite being such as us, it comes out raw, pure, and near unintelligible, for we are but finite creatures. After you write, please do us the favor of translating into human speak.

I'm being serious. Your writing is tough for me to read and I'd *like* to read it.

littleredhen:

Ah, I'm sorry, you are very right. To generalize, the two reasons were:

1) Perhaps one has illnesses that prevent donation.
2) Perhaps with such illnesses, even if donation was an option, donation might not be wise.

But these two reasons really boil down to the following reason:

--People do not know enough about being a kidney donor and do not look into the matter.. For this reason, they just aren't kidney donors.--

Well, maybe I should rephrase the question:

---> Let's say you knew that your kidney was viable for donation. Let's also say that you were advised that any condition you have now would not increase the risk of medical complications in the foreseeable future.

To those of you who would *not* donate, *what is your reasoning*?

Bravo! Hearing this makes me happy.

As far as I know, registering to be an organ donor means you are willing, once dead, to have your organs harvested. Bone marrow and kidney donation, though, are separate things that you have to register for.

The reason for this is that there are plenty of people who are willing to donate their organs post mortem. However, for the same people, kidney, bone marrow, and blood donation may be another matter entirely.

You may want to double check, dear. I am very glad to hear you are willing to donate!!!

Miles:

One:

What does God have to learn from a physical body?

Two:
I don't mean to be rude, but please learn to use punctuation, sir! What you write is interesting, but it's almost impossible for me to read. Also, you have several run-on sentences. >_O
Also, you say (I think), that we can find the right meaning in the Torah if we sincerely look, really look, and keep looking, and that if we don't understand, then we're not ready, in which case we should look again later. Well, that's fine for the Torah, but that doesn't mean you need to write so we have to decipher your words as well!

Three:
According to the Torah then, I have no light in me. That sucks! lols
I guess I'm a deceitful spirit and an anti-messiah. That sounds kind of cool actually...

Abra, I think we have a lot of similar points in our beliefs.

Myself, I believe in reincarnation. I always thought it was certainly a possibility, and it made sense to me just that it was more just...and that so many people have claimed to have clear recollections of moments of a past life. Certainly possible.

However, this is the first time I see someone show that it is not just possible, *but likely*. Bravo! You've convinced me! I think that's a bloody brilliant argument you got there, and I hope you don't mind if I use it should the topic ever come up.

And the thing about the heating bills for Hell...brilliant.

I do have a couple issues with the theory:

1) The theory sort of implies that God has some sort of quota of souls that he needs to redeem? At one point, humanity's population will slowly drop until all the souls are finally back in heaven?
-->A fix for this, I suppose, is that God has an infinite amount of souls as long as people keep reproducing. God is omnipotent, after all.
-Another issue with this: What happens if the human population is suddenly wiped out somehow? So much for waiting for everyone to come to their senses and be redeemed, huh?
--> A possible fix is to claim that this would constitute the Apocalypse and that these souls are the ones that *just didn't get it*. They deserve to go to hell.
-A problem with this is, perhaps some of these remaining souls are still young (after all, the population may keep increasing to that point)...so they didn't get their fair chance.

2) Why does God need to do all the stuff? Why does he need to harvest *good* souls that have been redeemed? Why all this heaven business? Why create us in the first place? Why, why, why?

3) It's a cool theory that you've put together and all that, but remember, it's you who logicked it out. Sometimes reality is as logic dictates, but the Divine could operate so many ways that your particular take on things is, finally, more or less arbitrary (except that you come to your conclusions very logically).

Could I easily say that a giant, intergalactic robot was flying through space, observing different civilizations, thinking...and finally, he finishes his plans for creating his great masterpiece: He creates a solar system, and on one of the planets, he sparks biological life. He watches over the development of all the species over millions of years, and when he sees one species that has potential, he makes small interventions, ensuring this species' survival.
When he sees that we're more or less good on our own, he sits back and admires what he has done - he has orchestrated and created an entire planet of civilizations! Complex and faceted each one of them! Sighing deeply (I'm sure robots this complex can sigh), he decides to head off to the other side of the universe in search of other adventures, but always, in his heart (I mean, virtual memory banks), he cherishes the lives he once created.

And here we our. Our metallic creator thought we'd be all right from this point forth, but we're starting to have all sorts of problems. We're facing obesity problems, nuclear extinction, resource shortages. If only our creator were still here to make his little adjustments. Perhaps, though, he was wise enough to realize that extinction is a fact of life, that one Earth rotation (one day, I mean), his creations may cease to exist...


Whew! I got a little carried away, but do you see my point? This myth is perhaps just as possible as yours...

Myself, I'm agnostic. I sometimes like to wonder about the nature of the Divine? What manifestations make sense and are possible? Certainly, your ideas about God are possible, and finally, I agree with you - that is, if there is a God like some say there is, I like to think he is far more intelligent than any of us. In fact, I don't think it could be any other way.

Though you have to admit that the Bible's story is at least possible. God could have all those bad qualities I ascribe to Him. Who says God has to be nice. I understand how many can find that disheartening or depressing, but I also think that to feel that way is a bit illogical. We still are who we are, we still do what we do. Just because there is a being more powerful than us, why does that make *Him* right? Maybe *I'm* right and God's wrong?

I apologize for the length. I hope the story was fun at least.

8. If you could obtain immortality by stomping a little girl's pet kitten to death before her crying eyes every Christmas, would you do it?

Yes, absolutely. To do such a thing every year would be a sacrifice for most people (and I'm a vegan AND a cat person). However, the death of one kitten and the psychological trauma caused to the girl and myself is insignificant compared to the good one could do with a mandate to immortality.

And I think the kitten sacrifice would make the immortality that much more meaningful. I'd have to make that kitten's death really be worth what I'd do with the rest of the time.

Imagine...every year, you dedicate all the amazing things you would have done to that murdered kitten? Sure, for the first many years, you might not be able to do too many great things...after a while, though, you'd become a pretty incredible human being who could do a lot of good.

Plus, if I ever wanted to die, I'd just not kill the kitten that Christmas!

Rlynne, about number 5. What if your "dreams" are that your kids live full, meaningful lives? Still, it's a tough choice...'cause you might just die. I think I agree with you still on this one, at least for you.

Myself, I'd open the door! ^_^

No way! Nice one. Have you changed your profile content since then?

Or am I just super-gullible?

Oh, I know he can't be serious, but it's an asshole thing to do none-the-less.

If the lady is really being a jerk about visitation rights, though, I'd say it's justified, and pretty clever, actually.

As for stem cell research...I'm just mad we've had to wait so long for it. Stupid Bush. I'm sure Obama will rescind that law.

No, I think you can transplant even if you are a smoker, as long as there is no serious damage to the kidneys.

I read on this kidney donation site that if you want to donate, you just have to stop smoking for several months beforehand.

And even if you're a smoker, probably your bone marrow and other things are still good.

If you're concerned about being an organ donor, try to register or look online. Whatever illnesses or contraindications you may have, there still might be *something* that could be used to save a life.

Wait, wait...you have a couple different pictures on your profile.
Is this one you? http://www.smeltproductions.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/joker.jpg

If so, then yeah, you're pretty ugly...



But if it's that other guy, yeah you look fine. I would even venture to say that if you were in pretty good shape, you'd be smokin'!

lmao wtf?

You actually went out with someone from this site? O_o Well, it's working better for you than it is for me. I've been wondering as well if the site is broken, lol.

Maybe we're both trolls? (Although, I'd have to admit that you're pretty good looking for a troll!)

A good friend once told me: Do not underestimate yourself.
AmberRose!

You are not too young to have deep, meaningful realizations. I'm 20 and I have at least 3 a day! (jk)


CChristo, this realization has the potential to change everything.****Everything****

Here's the catch -- *It is not easy*. Everything you are, all the words you say, how you look and act, what you do - examine them closely. You'll find that fear has an adverse effect in many if not all aspects of your life. Humans are ruled by this emotion, suffocated and stifled by it.

If you overcome these fears...well, look out, you're life with not be the same.

I'll start you out with one: From reading your post, you seem a little self-important and arrogant. The way you introduce the book, the problem, etc....

Well, you can get offended! Are you too afraid to look in the mirror, to really look at yourself, to find out? Are you afraid that what I say may be true?

Don't be afraid - find out!

That's pretty moving. Intense belief to complete rejection of the Holy Book. I'm glad you made the journey.

In fact, I would challenge any Christian to read that and not feel their faith be shaken at least a little.

Unless you have some serious auto-immune disease (like Lupus perhaps), they can probably find something that can be used. Ask your doctor about it, because only he knows about your specific case.

Save a life today - sign-up as an organ donor; sign-up as a bone marrow donor!