More of a colbert guy myself.

COLUMBIA, South Carolina (NBC) -- Believing his faith would heal him, a Greenwood County, South Carolina man sat down in his recliner after an injury in March and never got up.

On Thursday, his wife explained why he stayed in the recliner until shortly before he died.

"The man totally believed in God and his healing," said Ada Webb.

In March, Webb's 550-pound husband, Tillmon, sat down in a recliner inside their trailer in Greenwood. Wearing nothing but a blanket, the 33-year-old didn't move from that recliner for the next eight months.

"He couldn't do nothing for his self and I couldn't do but so much," Webb explained.

Webb says Tillmon tore his ACL in March and drove to a doctor's office.

"They were gonna give him an appointment, but they wanted $300 up front, and we didn't have the money," said Webb.

Webb says he returned to the recliner, picked up his Bible and became determined that faith would heal his leg.

"He read his Bible daily, he spent his full focus on God," said Webb. "And he was literally waiting and praying for a Job miracle. If anybody knows the Bible and knows Job, he really and fully believed that God was going to heal him just like he did Job, because he said he couldn't think of a better testimony to go out and to tell people."

For eight months they had no visitors. Webb rarely left his side, and she tried to keep him clean.

"I couldn't get him rolled over to use a bedpan," said Webb.

Other than eating and reading the Bible, she says Tillmon posted sermons online and texted messages of faith through his cell phone.

"He wanted so much to get up and you know, he wanted to tell everybody what Jesus done," said Webb.

Webb says Tillmon consistently told her not to call for help. She says Wednesday morning he was in so much pain that she finally called an ambulance.

Greenwood County authorities say they found Tillmon covered with sores, and that he appeared to weigh about 800 pounds. They say he was stuck to his chair, and they had to saw the recliner apart. They cut a large hole around the front door to get him out.

He died at the hospital.

Webb says she has no regrets about leaving him in that recliner.

"If I feel anything right now, it's envy for him because I wish he had taken me with him," said Webb.

Greenwood County deputies will not charge Webb with a crime. They determined she had no malicious intent of neglect.

Neighbors at the trailer park said they had no idea Webb had a husband inside that trailer the whole time.

I love when they try to defend this passage in the bible. As hard as they can they cannot defend the rape of children.


(Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)
They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.

Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

Many if not most Christians have not read the Old Testament word for word, many churches across America do not read certain passages. I think anyone with a rational perspective on life would agree with me that the Old Testament (Deuteronomy in particular) stains the entire concept of Christianity. Gods horrific laws and demands constantly repeated in the Old Testament implode on themselves. There is no possible way to even scratch at the surface of justification for the acts of God, he is the biggest monster ever created by man and is drenched in repulsion that swarms deluded concepts of fear tactics that antidotes death anxiety.

I'm sure many of you reading this were conditioned from childhood to believe in God or else burn for eternity, that is an oblivious form of mental child abuse that is going on daily in this world, that is one reason "we" fight religion and for the fact that it supports, enables, and justifies the most absurd acts on this planet. Unintentional brain washing aside, what has our past and present taught us? What have we seen? Jihadists, crusaders, inquisitors, martyrs, and many sub sets that mimic their despicable themes. Today we have people flying planes into buildings and blowing themselves up so they can enter an eternal paradise. We have people who claim to be worshipping the only true god and everyone else on this planet (4 out of the 6 billion) people alive are going to burn for eternity, these people call themselves Christians.

Keep in mind the common concept of God is that he knew the future of everyones acts before they happened and then he created everything, he premeditated every death in the history of mankind (yes the full six thousand years of life lol). I recommend that you guys read the entire book of Deuteronomy, it is even more horrific in full. "Nothing will make you an atheist faster than reading the damn Bible" -Penn from Penn and Teller




Deuteronomy 2
Defeat of Sihon King of Heshbon

31 The LORD said to me, "See, I have begun to deliver Sihon and his country over to you. Now begin to conquer and possess his land."

32 When Sihon and all his army came out to meet us in battle at Jahaz, 33 the LORD our God delivered him over to us and we struck him down, together with his sons and his whole army. 34 At that time we took all his towns and completely destroyed them—men, women and children. We left no survivors. 35 But the livestock and the plunder from the towns we had captured we carried off for ourselves. 36 From Aroer on the rim of the Arnon Gorge, and from the town in the gorge, even as far as Gilead, not one town was too strong for us. The LORD our God gave us all of them. 37 But in accordance with the command of the LORD our God, you did not encroach on any of the land of the Ammonites, neither the land along the course of the Jabbok nor that around the towns in the hills.


Deuteronomy 3
Defeat of Og King of Bashan

3 So the LORD our God also gave into our hands Og king of Bashan and all his army. We struck them down, leaving no survivors. 4 At that time we took all his cities. There was not one of the sixty cities that we did not take from them—the whole region of Argob, Og's kingdom in Bashan. 5 All these cities were fortified with high walls and with gates and bars, and there were also a great many unwalled villages. 6 We completely destroyed them, as we had done with Sihon king of Heshbon, destroying every city—men, women and children. 7 But all the livestock and the plunder from their cities we carried off for ourselves.


Deuteronomy 4
Obedience Commanded

3 You saw with your own eyes what the LORD did at Baal Peor. The LORD your God destroyed from among you everyone who followed the Baal of Peor, 4 but all of you who held fast to the LORD your God are still alive today.

Idolatry Forbidden

23 Be careful not to forget the covenant of the LORD your God that he made with you; do not make for yourselves an idol in the form of anything the LORD your God has forbidden. 24 For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.


Deuteronomy 5
The Ten Commandments

7 "You shall have no other gods before [a] me. 8 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 9 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 10 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

I think thats a spoof. And why anyone would listen to anything a miss. anything would say is beyond me.

There is none realy. I mean solid proof.

A bisexual christian? isnt that kind of like a black klansman?

I just saw Leonard Cohen in concert at the beginning of this month he was amazing.

It took him a year to write this song.

because no-one can seem to imagine a world without them in it.

I was talking to a friend the other day and some how we started talking about Star Wars. My friend told me that he didn’t like the Prequel Trilogy. I couldn’t believe it. Who does he think he is? Has he studied the Prequel Trilogy? Does he have a degree in it? What scholarship has he read about it? He couldn’t even name one Star Wars scholar and yet he has already formed an opinion about the Prequels.

While I do take my Star Wars very seriously and I do love the entire Star Wars Saga (episodes I-VI) that is not what this is actually about. Because as much as I love the Star Wars Saga (sometimes even dogmatically) I am aware that it is fiction. Even though I can’t really prove that Darth Vader never really lived a long time ago in a galaxy far far away, I am still reasonably certain that it is fiction. I don’t need to study the latest Star Wars scholarship to know that. Nor do I need to have a degree in Star Wars-ology.

However, many Christians seem to think that just because they can create universities, seminaries, and even museums devoted to the study of their fictional book that this some how makes their fictional book less fictional. Someone can study the Bible intensely for an entire lifetime and that still wouldn’t make it any less fictional. Sure, an intense study of the Bible may yield some interesting insights and perhaps even a little wisdom here and there as well, just like an intense study of the Star Wars Saga would. I will say that there is probably much more insight and wisdom in the “Holy Saga” than there is in the “Holy Bible,” but that is another debate for another day.

I wrote this realy in depth responce to this and my comp froze up and I lost it.
And i'm about to go out.
I will try again tomorrow.

“When asked about Free Will, I always give the same response, “Of course we do; I had no choice.” Christopher Hitchens gave this response at a Christian Book Expo Panel and while I think it was a funny response and that Hitchens had a great point within that context, I don’t think we actually have “Free Will.”

After saying that, Christians often tell me that if I don’t believe in Free Will, than I must believe that we have no choices. This of course is a false dichotomy. My claim isn’t that we don’t have choices, but rather that our choices are not “freely determined.” Instead, our choices are determined by a complex set of variables which play out in our nature and our nurture. Nature represents all our genetic variables and Nurture represents all the environmental factors (most of which we are not even aware of).

Even in infancy, where one might think that actions are determined on Nature alone I still think that there is plenty of Nurture going on in the womb and in the infant’s environment. Nature only refers to genetics. The nutrients are considered Nurture.

The complex interplay between these two factors is the determining characteristics of all of our actions and choices. The thing is that we don’t know how that interplay will play out so we have the appearance of Free Will. Now here is the catch, we can still make choices. We can still weigh the option and choose what path to take in life. Regardless of which path we choose, it was a choice that was determined by our Nature and our Nurture. In this model, “determined” isn’t a predictor of action because of the complexity of the interplay of our two determining forces. Here “determined” is more of a justification for our choices.

Here is an example: I am walking down a hall that I am familiar with. I know that there is an intersection ahead and that both paths will lead me to my destination. Which path do I choose? My mind works very quickly. Quicker that I even realize and calculates things that I am not even consciously aware of. I choose right. To a Christian who believes in Free Will, that choice is a free choice. But to a rational, thinking, person who is aware of modern psychology, that choice was a determined choice. Why did I go right is the question?

A Christian believing in Free Will would claim that such a choice is a random decision made by the choice maker. They might claim that it is a free choice with no baggage or attachment to it. But the fact is that even if we don’t know what determined that choice, it was still a determined choice. If I would have gone left, that too would have been the determined choice. I might have been as simple as the fact that I am genetically right handed and that is why I went right. It could have been because a saw a cute girl down the right path a few weeks ago and subconsciously I hope she might be there again. Maybe subconsciously I am trying to avoid someone I saw down the left path weeks earlier. It could even be a subconscious complex calculation based on multiple factors. Or perhaps it isn’t subconscious at all.

The point here is that “Free Will” is a myth just like the God who is alleged to have given it to us. Only people who choose not to educate themselves and to focus on a short-sighted view on behavior are believers in Free Will. And even though their choice to remain ignorant was a determined choice, they still have a choice to weigh the Nurture of education against the Nurture or their indoctrination. They can still choose to be educated.

we have always commited atrocities, no matter how primitive we live we are still human and will always kill each other.
But in the last 100 yrs. or so we can do it on a massive scale.

Like the one I pointed out in the OP.
There is no defence for it, or at least no rational one.

Many people think that because I believe that the Bible is fiction that it automatically means that I haven’t read it or that I do not like it. The fact is that I love the Bible… as a book if bronze aged fiction. As a book claiming to be divine and historical truth I think it is a pretty weak book. To demonstrate just how weak a book the Bible is on those grounds, I will take a page from one of America’s greatest patriots, Thomas Paine. In Paine’s work, “The Age of Reason part II” I discovered my favorite Bible verse. It seems that Paine found it amusing too:

“Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.” – Numbers 31:17-18

Out of all the verses in the Bible this one is my absolute favorite. The reason? It is the most indefensible verse in the entire Bible. Here God has ordered Moses to murder then entire Midianites village except the virgins and then to rape the virgins. I try to bring this verse to the attention of many Christians that I talk to and over the years I have gotten a variety of attempts to explain away this most indefensible verse.

One Christian response that I have gotten a few times was, “it was war and **** happened.” But if Barack Obama or George W. Bush had told our US Generals to take the troops into Baghdad and kill ALL the men and ALL the women except the virgin women and then to have sex with the virgin women (i.e. rape) we would surely think that our leaders were horrible people. There is no way our soldiers would even follow those orders because those orders would seem so immoral and would be completely illegal. The President would be impeached in a second and on trial for war crimes. But if God gave those orders (and he did according to the Bible) no one seems to have a problem with that? In fact, people would still worship a perfect being that gave such a completely morally reprehensible order?

Then I get the “Context” argument from many Christians who seem to think this the argument for anything an atheist like me has to say about the Bible. The Bible clearly gives the context for why God gave the order of genocide and rape. The Midianites didn’t “hate” the Jews. They didn’t care about the Jews at all. They worshiped Ba’al Zebul a fertility God. Yahweh (aka Yam) was jealous God (by his own admission) and decided to order his people (the Hebrews) to wage war. The raping of the virgins was like an extra **** you to Ba’al Zebul. Yahweh is your God. While the Bible makes mention of sexual atrocities that Midianites committed in the name of their deity that was very clearly not the reason Yahweh gave for his command. Besides, what possible injustice could anyone do in which mass murder and rape would someone be considered Just? I can think of no possible context, which would bring me to the conclusion that, “Oh mass murder and rape was a well deserved divine punishment for those people.” Rape is one of the few things in which there is no justifiable context for.

Next we have yet another attempted defense of this indefensible verse. This horrific verse is old. It was in the Old Testament and not the New Testament and for some reason we should ignore some of the verses, which we really don’t like, that are in the Old Testament despite the obvious fact that God is supposed to be perfect and some Bible verses even say that he can’t change, these Christians are claiming that even though he ordered this horrific act (and many similarly horrific acts in the Old Testament) now he is different. If Hitler were alive today and didn’t bother to say that he was sorry for the Holocaust, but just went around and told people to “turn the other cheek” should we forgive him for the Holocaust? Let me ask, how many times in the Bible did Jesus say Rape and Genocide were bad? The answer is zero, zip, zilch, none, not a one. Instead, Jesus defends the actions of Yahweh (God) many times. He even stated:

“For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” Matthew 5:18

The Christian claim that the Old Testament doesn’t count, but Jesus seems to think it does count. He seems to be saying that ever “jot” of it still counts. Besides, it is quite a big leap for God to claim that rape is cool and then to for him not to say anything against rape later and for Christians to somehow interpret that to mean that rape is sinful. Plus, Jesus always talks about doing his father’s work. If Yahweh were my father, I certainly wouldn’t be doing his work if he ordered genocide and rape to a bunch of people who worshiped Cupid.

And what about the big Ten Commandments? They are in the Old Testament and not a one of them states that, “Thou shall not rape.” Besides most Christians still think that the Ten Commandments are pretty worthy of following despite the fact that they are in the Old Testament.

Finally, some Christians claim that atheists take the Bible too literally. The whole claim to fame of the Bible was that it was written/inspired (through the holy ghost) by God the most perfect being to ever exist. Clearly, when the Bible talks about Jesus not coming to send peace but instead coming with a sword (Matthew 10:34) that is not to mean that Jesus is literally holding a sword. It is a metaphor. But what is it a metaphor for? If he had said that he came with a rose, I would assume that he meant love. But one does not love with a sword. A sword is a weapon of violence. Plus Jesus specifically stated that he didn’t come to bring peace. So that makes his metaphor pretty clear to me. And with my favorite verse, I think that story is supposed to be some sort of literal history and if that wasn’t the purpose, than I am at a loss for what such a metaphor would be saying. Moses is clearly the good guy in the story. We are supposed to be routing for him.

Fortunately, there has never been any evidence that suggests that the story of Numbers actually is a true account. Like the Mormon accounts of religious wars in the Americas, not one shred of archeological evidence has turned up to confirm these atrocities. But still, Numbers 31: 17-18 remains my favorite verse even though I am reasonably certain that it is a fictional account and that the Bible as a whole is fiction.

I have it on DVD very good stuff.
I have all the B#llsh!t boxed sets they are all great.

double post.

actually in some respects thats not far off.

yeah it's pretty obvious the story of Jesus is just a plagiarizeing of other stories before.
the Jesus story is nothing realy all the special.

moment of silence is prayer in school in disguise, do not be fooled.