That line about the "spear" vs. a "little sharp pointed stick" was too funny.

So now you are denying the validity of the article you just read (if you read it at all)? Shall I post the link to the video? Is seeing believing?



And a spear is....?

...

MS, the article stated (and this is recorded on video) that the chimps would use the spears to flush out bushbabies in the trees and stab them to death for food.



But you had just denied this in your previous post. ...



Chimps eat meat as often as they can capture it. Just as early hominids did.

You cant and to deny your past would be an exercise in futility. Your past life experiences, both good and bad, create who you are today as an individual. Its up to you to now move forward and to access these life experiences when you need them. You may not realize that you are even doing this yet you are constantly on a subconscious level. You touched the stove and you got burned. Now you know not to touch the hot stove again, even if it looks red and pretty. Remember, you will make new mistakes and vast errors in judgment. That is part of being human.

MS these are WILD chimps living in their natural habitats. Even if what you are saying is true and say the chimps spotted some natives making spears, wow, that would be even more remarkable! No MS, chimps eat meat also. They are omnivores just like you and I MS. They actually hunt in groups and male chimps will trap monkeys (remember they are apes and differ from monkeys) up in the jungle canopy using elaborate schematics that have been recorded by observational researchers. Also, the weapons are but another tool they design and create. They also strip leaves off long skinny twigs and use them to fish out ants from tight spaces.

Not to mention that there are two different accounts of Creation in Genesis. One which states that man and woman were created at the same time and then the other which states the whole rib thing and makes it sound as if woman was an afterthought and made merely to be a "help mate" for man. Its ludicrous.

MS did you even bother to read that article I posted about the female chimps making and designing weaponry in their wild habitat? You asked for a specific trait demonstrated by both chimpanzee and man and there it is. That was only page one of the article but I figured you wouldn't even read that much and just ignore it so I didnt bother posting it in its entirety. What do you know. I was right.

Abracadabra said:




This is a little off topic but since the OP deactivated, Im sure he wont mind. I actually got into an argument/debate with a Christian not too long ago about this very subject. Whether or not other animals besides humans posses souls. The Christian was insisting that man was the only one granted a spirit by god.

That to me just seems counter intuitive. I realize it is a highly subjective topic because probably many of us posses differing opinions about what constitutes a soul or spirit. To me, it is entwined with our individual life force and personality. Its what makes each one of us unique and different. Who here has had a pet and recognizes that they can be very different from one another?

I guess it is a topic for another thread.

This guy deactivated anyway. Im not totally surprised. He took a jab at me before he left also...typical.

Welcome. I am from Cali originally (central coast) but now living on the east. This is a fun site. Post and get to know people.

Thats bad. On a serious note I do believe they used chimps back in the 60s to test how human pilots would hold up against radiation blasts in the event of a nuclear assault. They trained this chimps to use flight simulators and then exposed them gradually to radiation. The goal was to make certain that the chimps could withstand the radiation long enough to hit their target (in the Soviet Union). Animal rights groups put a stop to it I believe. It was during the cold war build up.

Thats true MS. Thats why the body's of the Great Apes are so strong. They adapted to tree life and taking sanctuary in the jungle canopy when needed for protection. Humans probably climbed trees also to get away from predators like saber tooth tiger and everything else. But we dont have the upper body strength to be able to do that as quickly or effectively as our ape cousins. Do we still have great strength as human? Well yes, compared to some animals but nothing next to apes.

I was the one that told you to do that and it would behoove you to refer to me by name. I merely pointed out to you the reason why this thread would be met with such annoyance and exasperation. You have General Religion and you have Christian Singles. If you want to state that you are being attacked (or that Christians) are being attacked for their beliefs on this forum then you will receive an ear full.

Krimsa said:

Yet isnt it interesting that individuals who we might otherwise consider bright or intelligent (at least by society's standards of what constitutes intelligence) to hold stupid or "strange" beliefs . Whether or not someone decides that the beliefs of another are stupid and/or strange are totally subjective. I have that right. I also have the ability to be discerning and to decide for myself what I consider valid or a load hooey. The issue I have with Creationism is that it is clung to "in spite" of the credible evidence that supports its demise and relegation to that of standard creation mythology. .

For First Time, Chimps Seen Making Weapons for Hunting

By Rick Weiss
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, February 23, 2007; Page A01

Chimpanzees living in the West African savannah have been observed fashioning deadly spears from sticks and using the tools to hunt small mammals -- the first routine production of deadly weapons ever observed in animals other than humans.

The multistep spearmaking practice, documented by researchers in Senegal who spent years gaining the chimpanzees' trust, adds credence to the idea that human forebears fashioned similar tools millions of years ago.


Bo is one of the chimps on the Senegal being studied by researchers, who recently discovered that chimps have the ability to make their own weapons to hunt small mammels.

Bo is one of the chimps on a Senegal reservation being studied by researchers, who recently discovered that chimps have the ability to make their own weapons to hunt small mammels. (Paco Bertolani)
Video on the Web

Reserachers from a National Geographic-sponsored study discovered that chimps know how to use tools as weapons to hunt smaller mammels, a trait before now that scientists thought was only done by humans.

The landmark observation also supports the long-debated proposition that females -- the main makers and users of spears among the Senegalese chimps -- tend to be the innovators and creative problem solvers in primate culture.

Using their hands and teeth, the chimpanzees were repeatedly seen tearing the side branches off long, straight sticks, peeling back the bark and sharpening one end. Then, grasping the weapons in a "power grip," they jabbed them into tree-branch hollows where bush babies -- small, monkeylike mammals -- sleep during the day.

In one case, after repeated stabs, a chimpanzee removed the injured or dead animal and ate it, the researchers reported in yesterday's online issue of the journal Current Biology.

"It was really alarming how forceful it was," said lead researcher Jill D. Pruetz of Iowa State University, adding that it reminded her of the murderous shower scene in the Alfred Hitchcock movie "Psycho." "It was kind of scary."

The new observations are "stunning," said Craig Stanford, a primatologist and professor of anthropology at the University of Southern California. "Really fashioning a weapon to get food -- I'd say that's a first for any nonhuman animal."

Scientists have documented tool use among chimpanzees for decades, but the tools have been simple and used to extract food rather than to kill it. Some chimpanzees slide thin sticks or leaf blades into termite mounds, for example, to fish for the crawling morsels. Others crumple leaves and use them as sponges to sop drinking water from tree hollows.

But while a few chimpanzees have been observed throwing rocks -- perhaps with the goal of knocking prey unconscious, but perhaps simply as an expression of excitement -- and a few others have been known to swing simple clubs, only people have been known to craft tools expressly to hunt prey.

Pruetz and Paco Bertolani of the University of Cambridge made the observations near Kedougou in southeastern Senegal. Unlike other chimpanzee sites currently under study, which are forested, this site is mostly open savannah. That environment is very much like the one in which early humans evolved and is different enough from other sites to expect differences in chimpanzee behaviors.

Pruetz recalled the first time she saw a member of the 35-member troop trimming leaves and side branches off a branch it had broken off a tree.

"I just knew right away that she was making a tool," Pruetz said, adding that she suspected -- with some horror -- what it was for. But in that instance she was unable to follow the chimpanzee to see what she did with it. Eventually the researchers documented 22 instances of spearmaking and use, two-thirds of them involving females.

Never by anyone who truly knew me.

Well this is sure to end in disaster.

Well Im 36 and I dont exactly consider myself broom Hilda or a dog. Of course Im not a mom either but you seem to be implying that it would be impossible for an older woman or mother to be attractive?

Oh no. Luckily my mom is just as anti god as me. I was raised in that environment but shes just kind of crazy now. Not really senile but batty. I will probably get that way also. Its already happening.

Then I guess like smiless said, the earphones is your best bet. Just go over there and get what needs to be done over with and leave. Old people can be difficult. I mean very old. Parent age.

Can you just tell her you hate the shows and its unbearable? Is she the type that will be understanding of that or not? My mom is a little eccentric also so thats partly why I moved 3000+ miles away. Family is fine at a distance. Im a firm believer in quality time, not quantity.