I'm glad that Hillary didn't win, but the reason she didn't is because the system is not democratic. In a democratic system, the person with the most votes of the people wins. She had the most votes. 3 Million more people voted for Hillary than voted for Trump. We have a very humanly flawed system.

71:2.3 Popular elections may not always decide things rightly, but they represent the right way even to do a wrong thing. -The Urantia Book

And speaking of Christians, where are all the "WWJD" (What would Jesus do?) bracelet wearing Christians demanding that we treat refugees the way Jesus would treat them? This border chaos, the murder of a 20 year old Guatemalan woman, and ripping children away from parents, is a resultant evil from the fact that the people's will in the election was thwarted by a flawed system.

Why would you add Judaism to that? It's a minuscule amount of people, and they don't believe in Jesus. Also, after 2000 years of preaching the gospel that Christians preach, it's pretty sad that only 1/3rd of humanity is even nominally Christian, and there is some serious debate as to whether or not Catholics are Christian at all. Real Christians don't pray to dead human beings or call priests, "Father."

Abraham learned of God from Melchizedek.

Read Paper 93 in The Urantia Book: PAPER 93, MACHIVENTA MELCHIZEDEK

It's 11 pages in the book.

That's just an expression that has taken on a life of it's own. The only words of God in the bible are the words in RED, the words of Jesus, and then only that we can be sure He said. Oh, and Matthew 17:5. Other than that, all the other words in the bible are not the words of God. Not really. How can this be "the Word of God":?

But Rabshakeh said, Hath my master sent me to thy master and to thee to speak these words? hath he not sent me to the men that sit upon the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you? (Isa 36:12) KJV

Num 31:17-18 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. kjv

1Sa 15:2-3 Thus saith the LORD of hosts..., Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ***. kjv

It's blasphemy against God to say that the above verses are "His Word." But blasphemers don't often see their own blasphemy.

Good grief, I never said that.



I don't think you "got it" at all. I have nothing to do with Hell. I don't believe in Hell (which should be capitalized, imo). You're apparently making a lot of assumptions.



I don't understand your point. You too are now at the point where you can make your own decisions about things. You have free will. Where's the beef? God never restricts anyone's free will. You may have done that with your children, but God doesn't do that with His children. Free will is a free gift from God.



So? The beef? Where is it? What's the problem?



God does not "punish" anyone. That's just what some churches say. Are you angry with them? Can you separate that from being angry with God?

77:2.11 The records of such long-lived individuals are also due to the confusion of months and years as time periods. This may also be observed in the Biblical genealogy of Abraham and in the early records of the Chinese. The confusion of the twenty-eight-day month, or season, with the later introduced year of more than three hundred and fifty days is responsible for the traditions of such long human lives. There are records of a man who lived over nine hundred “years.” This period represents not quite seventy years, and such lives were regarded for ages as very long, “threescore years and ten” as such a life span was later designated.

77:2.12 The reckoning of time by the twenty-eight-day month persisted long after the days of Adam. But when the Egyptians undertook to reform the calendar, about seven thousand years ago, they did it with great accuracy, introducing the year of 365 days. -The Urantia Book

It does not. To obey God is to choose, with your free will, to do God's will.



It's assumed that God has power over his creation. It goes without saying. If you have a child, do you not have power over that child?



No one gives up their free will. They simply choose, with their free will, to do the Father's will.



Yes, there absolutely can be.



There is the free will to obey. Yes. You can choose it or un-choose it at any time. That's the nature of free will.



You are confusing religions with God.

Land masses rise and fall. Sometimes they're under water and sometimes they're above water. There are sea shells in Wyoming at 5000 feet elevation just to the east of the Bighorn Mountains. You find them while out antelope hunting. Tectonic plates smashing together causes mountains to rise, like the Rockies. Time erodes them, like the Appalachians. The Garden of Eden originally was on a peninsula off the now Syrian coast of the eastern Mediterranean Ocean. But that land subsided and now the Garden is 3000 feet underwater. If they'd stop shooting and warring long enough for a properly funded team with a side scanning sonar and divers to go in and find the remains of the Garden, its wall, and the Father's Temple, it would validate The Urantia Book.

73:7.1 After the first garden was vacated by Adam, it was occupied variously by the Nodites [Nephilim], Cutites, and the Suntites. It later became the dwelling place of the northern Nodites who opposed co-operation with the Adamites. The peninsula had been overrun by these lower-grade Nodites for almost four thousand years after Adam left the Garden when, in connection with the violent activity of the surrounding volcanoes and the submergence of the Sicilian land bridge to Africa, the eastern floor of the Mediterranean Sea sank, carrying down beneath the waters the whole of the Edenic peninsula. Concomitant with this vast submergence the coast line of the eastern Mediterranean was greatly elevated. And this was the end of the most beautiful natural creation that Urantia has ever harbored. The sinking was not sudden, several hundred years being required completely to submerge the entire peninsula. -The Urantia Book

LOL.

Exactly. And the men (priests and such) who tell you it's a sin, certainly are masturbating themselves.

It's no more a waste of seed than not masturbating and allowing the "seed" to get past its "use by" date.

Not to mention, if you have sex (with a woman) and release millions of sperm, usually only one gets used, the rest are all wasted.

No, of course not. Sin is the unethical and unloving treatment of our brothers and sisters in God's family.

I fail to understand why proof and evidence continues to be demanded.

No proof or evidence will be forthcoming. NOT NOW. NOT EVER.

Either believe or don't believe.

Why bother yourself and other people with questions about proof and evidence?

If you can't believe, then don't.

Go fishing or something.

Well said.

Where does Jesus endorse the murderous immorality of Yahweh?



Actually, Hell is rapidly disappearing from most modern bibles as scholars realize there never was such a place.



Why is that a downside? So He didn't toot his own horn much, so what? How is that an argument against Christianity? He did say that he and the Father were one. That's divinity enough.



It turns out that was more a failure of his hearers hearing and misunderstanding and mis-remembering what he said, and errors in the recording/writing. It's all explained in The Urantia Book.



Jesus didn't come here to speak to those human subjects or solve them for us, except for salvation, and that, he did speak to, very specifically.

"Not every one who says to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." (Matthew 7:21)

You must do the Father's will to attain salvation. Isn't that clear from what he said?

Where did you get your list from, anyway? Whoever it was doesn't know very much.



I don't understand the above statement. Do you mean "can be explained"? I donno. Anyway, it sound like a lot of blow-hard nitpicking. Anything can be subjected to misinterpretation, exaggeration, and embellishment.



How is that a failure of Christianity, even if true? Paul founded Christianity, not Jesus.



Jesus was not in the recruiting business. He did not come here to recruit. And with regards to his family, everyone has a freewill, even one's own family. Do you think Jesus should have put a gun to their backs? And as Jesus said: "A prophet is not without honor, save in his own country, and in his own house." And yes, it's true. It happens that prophets are often rejected by their own.

It doesn't matter.

The answer to this question is all you need to know:

...Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? (Luke 10:25)

Christians only believe in one God.

That's a very good post, imo, Blake.

Sometime we should start a thread about "the Spirit of Truth (SoT)," that Jesus said would "guide" us into all truth. Guide us how? Guide us when? Why do we all believe different things? Is the Spirit of Truth a failure? Etc.

Agreed. But Science is a moving target, one day saying one thing and another day saying something else and often, the last thing they said is assumed to be, or peddled as, the absolute truth. They fall into that trap a lot. The Big Bang is an example of that.



Yes, I know how science is supposed to work. Unfortunately, they can't replicate the alleged Big Bang or show us pictures of the event. Nor can they initiate life from a bowl of inert chemicals. Etc. All they can say about the latter is that, well, given enough time, it just happened.



Perhaps. But maybe life was enjoyed by others in earlier eras too. Maybe people found meaning in life without cell phones and cancer killing radiation machines.



I hadn't heard that the Higgs Boson was related to Dark Matter. Last I heard, "Dark Matter" was hypothetical and nothing more.



What I object to is how they speak about the "Big Bang" as if it was a fact. It's not a fact. It may be supported by evidence but that doesn't make it a fact. The "flat earth" is also supported by evidence. All you need to do is move to Kansas and look at the horizon and you can SEE that it's flat. That's "evidence."



Agreed.



I understand that. The Urantia Book says that Adam and Eve were de-materialized on their home world and flown here by Seraphic transport and then re-materialized here, in the Garden (of Eden), 38,000 years ago. It also says that the original Garden is now under 3,000 feet of water in the eastern Mediterranean Ocean off the coast of Syria. So if that's ever found, it will validate The Urantia Book. The problem is that it's almost impossible to do any such research in that area due to the danger of being attacked by the militaries of several countries in that region.



I was intrigued by the idea that The Urantia Book's 2 billion year cycle of space respiration seems to dovetail the Hindu creation story (if I remember that right). Maybe some Hindu "seer" somehow found out.

I hope to get this answered before iamresurrected gets this thread locked.

I did give a link to an explanation. If you get the time, read that.



Yes, apparently. Exactly. In one case, some 450 pages of tightly handwritten material materialized in Dr. Sadler's locked safe. Or something like that. It's at the link I gave. I'd have to re-read it myself or find the statement. NO ONE ever saw the process, as far as I know.



Yes, of course. Here's the link again. http://www.609g.biz.ht/index.html



Yes, I know. I don't believe the Mormon story.



Yes, I know. Sigh. I don't believe that story either. Why didn't God use Stainless Steel instead of granite? And then the Hebrews lost them.



Yes, I know.



Maybe some do and maybe some don't. Maybe some are con-artists. It's too subjective. I don't know.



Oh no, I don't think so. You can find the Space Respiration paragraph at 11:6.1, that is, Paper 11, Section 6, Paragraph 1, as numbered in the Uversa Press books. Or I can post it here if you like. In Urantia Foundation books it would still be Paper 11, Section 6.



Yes, The Urantia Book also says we are in the expansionary phase. Lucky guess, huh? Was that known to modern science in 1950? (I don't know, just asking.)

The problem above is the words, "the generally held view." That's not science, that's opinions. Don't you think it's the least bit strange that "modern" science can tell us that the alleged big bang happened 14.3 billion years ago, give or take 5 minutes, but they have no idea what makes up 96% of the universe, "dark matter" and "dark energy"? 96% of the universe is HYPOTHETICAL, but somehow they know exactly when the alleged Big Bang happened? I don't think so.

I am enjoying having a civil discussion about this.

They obviously didn't "need" to. God can pretty much do whatever in any way He prefers, whether you like it or not. You're confusing need with did. They did it that way because that's the way they wanted to do it. You want "signs and wonders." Jesus said, "Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe." (John 4:48) Jesus is onto humans who need signs and wonders.

That's what the alleged "virgin birth" is all about, signs and wonders for the edification of simple folk. It amazes me that humans buy this explanation and accept it as being sane.

Yes, they could have done it the same way they did with Jesus. Just create Jesus out of thin air fully grown with no need for any human interaction. Right? Oh they DIDN'T do it that magical way? They involved humans and even a woman's womb. Why doesn't it amaze you that the higher intelligences didn't just create Jesus out of thin air without any human involvement? Why do YOU think the "higher intelligences" NEEDED (your word) to do it with human involvement? They want us to have some skin in the game and they don't pander to those who need signs and wonders.

Tell me all your beliefs and I'll tell you which ones "amaze" me.



It amazes me that humans buy the idea that the writings of a three thousand year old tribe of desert Semitic camel jockeys on earth is "the word of God" and accept the premise as being sane.

Don't forget what Thumper said. If you're not going to constructively contribute, you should probably just sit it out. Maybe we can prevent this thread from being locked.

"Thumper, what did your father tell you?"
"If you can't say something nice, don't say nothing at all".