mg1959...I hope you stick around too...Sometimes I post on another forum. A lot of bickering and "bashing" goes on in the political section of the other forum too. But it is a little bit more balanced...Some people do come together and discuss issues minus all the "heated emotions" and anger and snide remarks etc...I don't think it's a good idea to suppress our anger. But I don't think it's smart or healthy to become a "dragon" and live and breathe anger either...And I don't feel good about myself when I put other people "down" in mean and vicious ways. (Just because they don't happen to agree with me.) I don't want to become a "bully."..We have serious problems in our country today that need to be resolved. We can't afford to act like "little kids" or "bullies" anymore. This is how I feel anyway. Thanks for your posts and all you've shared too.

Thanks!

Romney needed to appeal to a larger chunk of voters to take the presidency away from Obama.

I agree. Our feelings can be subjective at times. (Instead of objective.)

Good description!

I agree...But some take it personally. (Especially if they've felt rejected over and over again by a series of women.)..From what I've observed the "friend zone" stuff becomes like a "club." And the guys firmly believe that "nice guys" always finish "last."...They feel they lose out because women go after "bad boys" not "nice guys."...They feel like the cards are stacked against them. And it becomes like a self-fulfilling prophecy...It's like saying that women don't like men with red hair. And since I have red hair I'm destined to be a "loser" with women for the rest of my life...There's no hope unless a guy is willing to drop out of the "nice guy" and "friend zone" club...Membership in this club is all about being rejected and "passed over" time after time. And this is sad!

When corporations started shipping jobs overseas they didn't stop and consider whether people in the USA would be able to continue to buy all of their products. Wages have been going down for a long time. (Way before Obama took office.) And decent paying jobs are hard to find (or hold) these days....If we could get our jobs back on our soil again we'd be able to buy pizza and eat out more often and support businesses in our area...Taxes wouldn't have to go up because steady revenue would be coming in from businesses and employees who had jobs again. (Versus having to draw unemployment or welfare etc.)

They do throw tantrums like little kids do! And toss-out threats and guilt-trips etc...Some people may believe their baloney but good that everyone doesn't...You're right. It's all "been there, heard that" kind of stuff and manipulation tactics...My word! Some people are cheap and greedy (beyond description) even though they have so much! ..The wages at these kinds of places are shameful! People work for next to nothing in the service industry just to have a job at all...There aren't many decent paying jobs left or available anymore! And this isn't Obama's fault! Corporations have been "screwing" their employees for decades and getting away with it. (While they laugh all the way to the bank and reap huge profits!)

I agree...It's weird that so many people side with wealthy corporations these days and "bless" everything they do...Where is the caring and patriotism on the part of these corporations? The truth is they don't care...They nickel and dime their employees and ship jobs overseas because all they care about is themselves and their "beefsteak bonuses." And keeping their shareholders and the "Wall Street bosses" happy!

It's probably time to agree to disagree and lay it all to rest for now! What do you think? Hope you have a nice holiday weekend!

I agree with you....I have been around men who play "waiting games." It can really push women away!....YUK! What would it be like to be married to a man like this? Would he expect his wife to "read his mind" and do all the planning and "leading" while he "sits back" and "waits" to be told "what to do" all the time?

Maybe the women don't really want "bad boys" per se...They are just looking for a man who has a well-developed sense of "self" and "style" and personality...A man who can make them "think" and laugh and smile! Someone who is entertaining and full of surprises versus being "exactly the same" all the time and totally predictable! (Which can translate into boring!)...I'm not talking about being flaky or unreliable. Just "new" and different at times versus settling into "ruts" and"routines."..."Cutting loose" every so often just to keep things lively and "fresh" and interesting!..To me this is all part of having a personality! Sometimes we have to take a few risks and let our "wild and crazy" and playful side come out to be interesting to other people!...Or come-up with unique and novel ideas and theories about life and so on...It takes work to develop our personalities. And work to be interesting to other people!... This is how I feel anyway!...I was extremely shy and self-conscious when I was young and didn't have much of a personality. It was easy to "pass me by" or ignore me! I really didn't have much to "offer" to anyone...One day I finally "woke-up" and started to develop a unique personality of my very own over time.

I agree...Best to be upfront and open right from the start...I think some guys develop a lot of fears and phobias about being placed in the "friend zone." I've seen so many "friend zone" threads on forums over the past couple of years...Maybe it's best to take a more sensible and realistic approach when it comes to dating..Take the attitude that the first dates are just a time for a man and woman to get to know each other as friends to see if there is a "mutual click" and "chemistry" as you mentioned in your post....If a man (or woman) is overridden with fears about being placed in the "friend zone" this can "screw things up" early-on. Don't you think? It's easy to pick-up "negative vibes" or insecurities and fears etc.

msharmony...Thanks for sharing back and forth!...I'm not sure that I view marriage as a "right." (A "right" accorded to some but not to others.)...I "came of age" in the 60's...Back then a lot of us worked to "shake things up" and create changes in society in many different ways..When I was younger I viewed marriage as just a "piece of paper" for awhile even though I got married versus living with mates...When I married my "last" husband in the 80's I started viewing marriage through "new eyes!"...My husband and I were best friends and "team players" and equal partners in all respects!...And I loved being married. (For the first time!)...And my husband and I remained happy together until he passed away in 2010...But I still can't say that I view marriage as a "right" per se. I'd probably call marriage a "choice" especially in these times...I don't want or need to put stipulations or limitations on marriage in regards to opposite or same-sex couples getting married...All of the "revolutions" I went through back in the 50's and 60's and 70's permanently affected me. And I favor equal rights for everyone!

msharmony..I guess we all have different views when it comes to the role of the government...I expect the government to safeguard the rights of each and every citizen when it comes to fairness and equality...Churches have the right to refuse to marry certain individuals based on their own criteria...But I expect the government to be more impartial and neutral when it comes to granting rights to citizens...We all come from different religious backgrounds and some people are atheists or agnostics etc...I expect the government to find a way to represent and accomodate everyone. It's not easy! (Because our country is full of diversity!)...The government didn't step-in and "moralize" and make it illegal for unmarried couples to live together...The government doesn't arrest people who get divorced or women who give birth to children out of wedlock...We all take pride in living in a "free country." A lot rests on our own shoulders when it comes to the beliefs we "adopt" and how we want to raise our children etc...The government only steps-in when it's determined that children are being abused or neglected by their parents. Or to enforce other laws...I don't look to the government to set the "ideals" concerning marriage. (Especially when these "ideals" directly infringe on the rights of some citizens.)...As parents we are free to share our beliefs and our "ideals" with our children. But some of our kids might decide to go their "own way" and form their own "ideals" and beliefs as they grow older. This is all part of living in a "free country!"

msharmony...I have some gay friends who have been together as a "couple" for 20-30 years. And I have some straight friends who have been married to their spouses for 20-40 years!...Some relationships "last" and some don't! (Whether people get married or not!)...I've had gay friends since I was young so it's all normal to me. We all get along great and show respect for each other.

Great post and points!...I remember getting teased and tormented by a few boys when I was in grade school...These boys didn't know how to relate to girls in normal or positive ways...They thought they had to be a "brat" to get attention I guess...But there were a few boys in my classes who treated girls as "friends" and equals and this was nice.

Made a double post by mistake...So I'll add something else. I grew up as an only child so I don't know what it feels like to have brothers or sisters..But I do think there is a lot of separation and segregation between boys and girls in school (and just in general) when we're growing up...When boys hear their coaches call them "girls" or "sissies" on sports teams this doesn't help! The implication is that girls are stupid and dumb or weaklings etc. So no boy wants to be called a "girl!"...It all starts off when we're small. And too often it carries on into adulthood....Boys and girls need to be taught to relate to each other as "people." And encouraged to show respect for the opposite sex at a young age. Don't you think?