But dont you see that you are causing some of the attacks?

You post in a way that is so black and white, that it raises peoples hackles.

You use strong rhetoric that incenses people to respond and then you feel the need to defend what you perceive to be an attack.

If god really was that worried about my atheist arse and truly cared about me giving him a hard time, and I was worth it, do you not think that he would give me some hard proof?

After all, according to religions of all sorts, god knows everything. So he knows what I think and what buttons to push if he wants to.

You take it too much to heart. Life is too bloody short Spider. If you truly believe (and I think you have given enough proof that you do) then let us non-believers stumble around in the darkness.

You have said that you tried other religions before you decided to give christianity a "try"
How long did you give Islam a try for?


.. and you dont have to defend the faith with such vigour... god (if he/she/it exists) can do that all on his/her/its own.

I dont see the relevance of this to my post ...

Where do you get 7 years from?
Fundamental Christians ARE dangerous!
Fundamental Muslims ARE dangerous!
Fundamental anythings ARE dangerous!

Blowing yourself up to kill women and children should be compared to a god who orders biblical characters to murder innocent women and children.

Both are heinous crimes against the human race.

Then if you are saved, why bother carrying on with the belief system? Will god change his mind?

Will you slip back into non-saved mode?

god has decided you are an ok person because you believe you are saved, so you will get entry to heaven.

Then surely you dont need to try and convince the rest of us of your interpretation of god's will.

From the Times Online website ...

If you add up all the Christian denominations then at the moment there are more of them than muslims.

But not for long ...

Estimates of the total number of Muslims range from 0.7 to 1.2 billion worldwide and 1.1 to 7 million in the U.S. 3 About 21% of all people on Earth follow Islam. The religion is currently in a period of rapid growth.

Christianity is currently the largest religion in the world. It is followed by about 33% of all people -- a percentage that has remained stable for decades. If current trends continue, Islam will become the most popular world religion sometime in the mid-21st century - from American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS) of 2001

But you already beleive out of fear of punishment.

If you dont believe, you believe you will go to eternal hell and be damned!

Your god has told you that.

So you are gambling on eternal life that you can get enough good deeds in and get on god's good side before he takes your life away and deposits you in one of the two places (if you are catholic, then three)

You doubt what?

the terrorist, as you term it, is anyone who forces his beliefs on anyone else in a method that causes anger, hatred and fear.

I think in 2050, Islam will be the world's biggest religion ...

Why? You allegedly have god on your side .. Im a god-less atheist.

You have an excellent command of the English language.
Miguel has it as his 2nd or even 3rd language.

Why would you assume that he would understand the word hate, when you actually meant the word dislike?

Because it is more accurate, thats why it is better.

My fault that the implication that the word "you" meant "you Spider". It meant "you" as in "you christians"

Missed a word ... and it made a difference (apologies for that)

I dont even dislike or have a distate for christianity, I have pity for those who need it, or any other religion, in their lives for emotional support or guidance.

You would know, would you?

When was the last time you were in Europe?

... and Allen, you are more than welcome.

So, when you coming?

Absolute rubbish.

Europeans dont dislike Americans .. who told you that?

I find the majority of Americans pretty cool - and Im European

Ok ... here is one classic contradiction ...
CRUEL, UNMERCIFUL, DESTRUCTIVE, and FEROCIOUS or KIND, MERCIFUL, and GOOD:
"I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy." (JER 13:14) "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling."

"The Lord is very pitiful and of tender mercy." (JAS 5:11)
"For his mercy endureth forever." (1CH 16:34)
"The Lord is good to all, and his tender mercies are over all his works." (PSA 145:9)
"God is love." (1JO 4:16)

God is telling them to murder innocent babies in the first one

In the second set he is all sweetness and light.

Contradictory

Spider;
Who hates Jesus and God?

Just because we dont believe the same things you do, doesnt mean we are haters.

I dont believe in Islam or the Muslim way of belief and yet I live in a Muslim country one hour from the Israeli border, I dont hate the Muslims at all!

You assume, again and again, that because we wont bow to YOUR will, that we hate you.

Time after time, you are disappointed in this person or that person. Who the hell cares whether you are disappointed in them or not? You are nothing more than a set of posts on a forum.
Im not going to change my views on your religion, just like you are not going to change yours.

You set rules that you try to force on others - your rules.
When they try and use your rules against you, you then call foul and move the boundaries.

Basically, you are a bully and if you dont get your own way then you have a temper tantrum.

You believe "A"
I believe "B"

I actually dont care what you believe. But I do care when you try and tell me what to believe because you believe it.

So stop acting like a bloody child and drop this battle you want to fight to get yourself justified in the eyes of your god.

If he/she/it exists, then you will be forgiven for what ever it is that you have done.

Your own christian brothers and sisters also worship the same gods as you do, and yet you attack them and then they "disappoint" you because its a different branch of the same thing.

All-in-all, your belligerant version of your religion is the epitome of why I think it is a dangerous thing to humanity as a whole.

Then set them to a melodious tune by Black Sabbath or Ozzie Osbourne

I voted Aye

The problem is, with both of the arguments, you are both making assumptions based on your own feelings towards the stories.

Because Spider has taken it upon himself to be the champion of all-things biblical, he assumes he can know what god thinks.
Its nothing more than his interpretation.

Abra does exactly the same, using logic.

So, to be honest, neither of them will get any sort of closure because neither of them will win or lose.

Because we actually, truly, dont know.

Using the Bible, or the Qu'ran or the Torah to base your actions upon is fine, but when you start debating its factual truth, it is nothing more than heresay.

Even fellow christians cannot agree on the "truth"

This is a contradiction in itself.

I contend that Abra's position is tenable.
So, Im going to vote with Abra.

Aye

This will always be deemed a win for your side, as there are more believers than non, and the believers will always revert to "You have to read the bible as a whole to get its meaning, not just the passage you are quoting"

Too much like hard work for a Friday evening.