Interesting what Christians grasp onto….

In a book written 1500 years ago by primitive hut dwellers…
(500 years and approximately 25 generations of verbal passed down myth-stories after Jesus may or may not have lived)
God tells man not to eat an apple, but a talking snake tells man to eat it, so.. man listens to the talking snake…. God is upset (a loving, forgiving god ??), so he immaculately inseminates a woman (if not by her choice–rape ??, if she was married to Joseph at the time—adultery ??) and she gives birth to him/his son so he can suffer and die for us (Jesus chooses to die for us–suicide ??) because we sinned when we listened to the talking snake and ate an apple.. what a strange story…

I contend that we are all atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than religious people do. When religious “believers” understand why they dismiss all possible gods and religions except for their one “true” god , they will understand why I dismiss theirs.

The day people lose the fear of the threat of burning in hell will be the first intellectually free day of their life. Christianity and its rules and threats and prejudices was created by hut-dwellers thousands of years ago in order to gain power over their fellow human beings. New religions continue to crop up constantly in much the same way Christianity originally did- look at the Mormons, Scientologists and other less-successful religions. Christianity actually is like many religions, resurrection, virgin birth, god lives in heaven, etc….

The basis of religion and believing in Jesus is fear…. fear of going to hell (another man made myth–hell)
fear of what happens to us when we die. fear of God punishing us… (many examples especially in the old testament)
all of the stories, myths, fairytales about Jesus, including Jesus is God, were written hundreds of years after his death by primitive hut dwellers….

look at the big picture, Jesus is just another God in a long line of man-made Gods… during Jesus time, mankind was moving from polytheism to monotheism…. there were many “messiahs” ( 7 or 8 major ones) during Jesus life… Constantine helped Christianity become the big religion by making it the official religion of Rome.
Again, think about how ridiculous and unbelievable all of the other gods and religions are to you, and you will see why the Jesus myth is just another imaginary… (another word for faith) belief system.


Two things are needed to become a religious person….

1) exposure to religion… you are a Christian because you are surrounded by it, if you lived in a Hindu community you would gravitate toward.. I think you get my drift
2) a personal need and weakness…. religious people are less responsible for their actions and consequences, they lean on religion to help them deal with life, and use it as an excuse for their actions (religion is imaginary, a delusion, therefore actually a type of psychosis)

The most courageous act is still to think for yourself. Aloud

politics is not for those without balls,

and freedom of speech does not just apply to non politicians, are we going to start policing metaphors and similes now?

I find more and more it seems that many Christians just don't know what 'to do about' agnostics. Oh sure, if you use the "other" A-word, it's like inciting a riot.

IMHO, all this just shows how pervasive the "permission" aspect of belief really is. It's okay to be a Designer Christian, but if you've drank from the A Kool-Aid, you're in heavy doo-doo.

On one of the premier Freethinkers sites, some of the forums have higher post counts from Christian authors than from Freethinkers, and that's allowed as long as the Christians follow the rules.

Anyway, this country has always stood on the principle of protecting dissenters from having violence visited upon them from an unprinipled majority. THAT is something more remarkable than all the Abrahamic religion-based morality put together.


-Kerry O.

I don't think I've ever been to the Atheist/Agnostic forums. Is there much traffic over there?

I'm not an atheist, but I do confess to agnosticism as I believe all humans are ultimately agnostic whether they realize it or not.

I'll have to go over there and see what they're talking about. Being ultimately agnostic, I guess I qualify.

I imagine that Cowboy means well too. He obviously believes that these ancient Hebrews are God's "spokespersons" and doesn't seem to be able to see the lack of wisdom in many of these teachings.

He seems to feel that "punishment" is a valid and wise way of trying to teach people lessons.

I guess it would be easy for someone who can accept that to believe in the God of the Bible.

I personally reject that ideal as being unwise to begin with. Thus the biblical stories appear to be totally unwise from my perspective.



I certainly understand your problem with "faith". Especially if you view it as something that you "should" have toward some particular religion just because the religion requires it.

I also fully agree with you that if you can't see the rationale behind these religious myths, or philosophies, then no genuinely righteous God would ever hold that against you. After all, what kind of a God would expect you to live a LIE just to please it?

As I keep trying to tell the Christians, to "believe" that the Bible is the "Word of God", simply isn't an option for me. I would basically need to lie to myself, and to the God, in some sort of 'pretense' that I "believe" it when in fact I don't.

It's not a CHOICE. The fable makes no sense to me, and describes an contradicting entity that does not even remotely exhibit "wisdom", IMHO. For me to pretend otherwise could only be a LIE.

So how could I ever get into this so-called "God's" heaven if they only option he left me is to LIE my way in?

Moreover, if I choose to believe in what I consider to be a far wiser and more beautiful picture of "God" then why would "God" be upset about that? Such a God should be extremely PLEASED that I think so highly of him/her/it.

~~~~

On the topic of atheism

I also see the wisdom in being a moral atheist. What God could be angry with a moral atheist? Here's a person who has decided to do GOOD on their own accord, with no threats of punishment, and no carrots of reward. What could possibly PLEASE a God more than that?

To have a CHILD who wants to do good all on their own would be any parent's ultimate PRIDE and JOY! Moral Atheists should be God's most prized creations!

So I see moral atheists as being the ultimate perfect Children of God. They don't even believe in God yet they exhibit divine traits.

~~~~

On the topic of "faith"

Arcamedees,

I think I understand your problem with "faith". Why should you have faith in something you simply don't believe and see no reason to believe?

I agree, that you SHOULDN'T! You most certainly shouldn't place your faith in something that you don't believe to be true. To do so would be to live a life. Also what should be your incentive to do so? Just to appease a "God" or some organized religious group?

No, if you see no reason to have "faith" in some sort of spiritual existence, then you most certainly should not even bother with it.

I totally agree with you on that point, and I "pass no judgments" on your choice to "believe" in a totally atheistic existence.

However, from my point of view, that too is a form of "faith", even though you may not think of it that way. From my point of view you're simply saying, "Well, I see no reason to believe that we are anything more than just creatures that evolved from some sort of freak "natural" explosion". All scientific evidence points to that conclusion. So why bother even contemplating anything else? That must be the "truth" of reality.

So in a sense, you've accepted a "conclusion" based on what you believe we "know".

I fully understand that.

Now, I believe in the "mystical" view of life which includes a concept of eternal "spirit". You might look at me and say, "Well that's a matter of Faith", but to me it's not that way at all. From my point of view that's the only thing that truly makes any sense.

How so?, you might ask.

Well, it all boils down to the concept of "emergent properties". In order for me to "believe" in atheism (i.e. a non-spiritual essence of reality), I must conclude that my true nature is nothing more than an 'emergent property' of what we call the "physical world".

Well, this is extremely problematic for me on a purely logical level. Who (or WHAT) is it then that is having this "experience" that "I" am experiencing.

In other words, "Who is this 'I', that is having this experience of life"? Or to put this in other terms, "What is the nature of this emergent property?" That then becomes the question of "Who am I?" Right?

Well, that's the very question that the mystics ask. This is in fact, the very foundational principle of mysticism.

What is it that is experiencing this "I"?

And "emergent property"? And what is that pray tell?

Are the atoms of my brain "experiencing" this existence? Is my brain as an overall organ "experiencing" this existence? Or is some phantom human abstract concept called an "emergent property" experiencing this existence?

I've thought about this long and hard. In fact, it is the practice of Eastern Mysticism to meditate on this very thing.

What I've come to accept, and realize, is that the entity that is experiencing this condition of physical reality cannot be a mere "emergent property". That's just a totally meaningless abstract concept made up by humans. An emergent property can't experience anything. Neither can an atom. And if one atom can't experience anything, then neither can a bunch of atoms.

This is why, for me, the mystical picture actually makes rational and logical sense. So for me, it's not really a matter of "faith" to believe in mysticism anymore than it's a matter of "faith" for you to believe in atheism.

From my point of view that's just where everything is pointing. From my point of view mysticism is the natural conclusion, not atheism. I am this universe experiencing itself. That's the basic idea behind mysticism. We are this universe.

In other words, whatever the underlying essence of this universe is, we are it. "Tat T'vam Asi" is the Indian phrase they use, meaning, "You are that".

I am THAT I am.

Yes, in fact, that's probably where that biblical idea originally came from, Easter Mysticism.

~~~

In short, when thinking about human consciousness there are two ways to think of it.

1. We are a the form.
2. We are the thing that is taking the form.

You choose to believe #1. You choose to believe that we are a result of physical form, and that when that form no longer exists, then "we" no longer exist.

I choose to believe #2. I choose to believe that we are the thing that is taking the form, and the form simply changes.

~~~

I'll hope you'll bear with me in all of this. After all, you mentioned a few post back that I never expound on my ideas and beliefs, so I'm doing so now.

~~~

Let's talk "science" for just a moment

What does science "know"? (or at least what does it believe to know)

When if you ask many biologists who also adhere to idea #1 above (we can only be a result of Form), they argue that it's meaningless to even speak of "non-physical" information. Therefore they argue, "When the form ceases to exist, where would spirit go?"

There's no "place" for the spirit to reside because it does indeed require "information". We are nothing but "In-FORM-ation". They argue that it's absurd to speak of "information" without also speaking of "physical form".

Thus since they believe that we are nothing more than an emergent property of "physical form" the argue that when the physical form passes, so must we.

But is this truly the knowledge of science?

I would argue that it's not. These biologists are failing to take into consideration the observations and properties of quantum physics and the quantum field.

Ask any Quantum Physicist and they will assure you that there necessarily has to be information in the quantum field. A field, that is in essence non-physical until it emerges as a physically measurable phenomenon.

Thus, the point to keep in mind here is that biologists are clearly wrong to suggest that information cannot exist without physical form. Quantum physics demands that it must exist in the quantum field even when it's not physically detectable.

Moreover, the leading scientific theory of the "Inflationary Big Bang" suggests that this entire universe arose from a quantum fluctuation of this information field that we call the quantum field.

Well, I'm not attempting to "prove" anything here, or even convince you of this case.

All I'm saying is that there are scientific reasons to believe that our true essence may very well ultimately belong to this "Quantum Field". The quantum field could indeed be some sort of "cosmic consciousness". In fact, it would even extend far beyond the cosmos because the cosmos itself has merely arisen from it.

Taking into consideration all of this knowledge, along with the wisdom and philosophies of the Eastern Mystics, it is my humble opinion, that Eastern Mysticism actually makes more sense to me, then this idea of an "emergent property" makes.

So I don't view my 'belief' in mysticism to be any more a matter of 'faith' than your 'belief' in atheism.

From my point of view, it's simply the most rational conclusion based on all the things I know.


I also, concede that I could be wrong. Perhaps atheism may be the truth. I ultimately confess to being "agnostic" without divine or supreme knowledge. So I don't hold anything against atheist and those who chose to believe that they are merely the result of form. I see nothing wrong with that view untill an atheists turns to me and says, "Your faith in Eastern Mysticism is silly and totally unwarranted intellectually".

I say baloney. My reasons for believing that Eastern Mysticism may have validity are very bit as sound and logical as an atheists view that we are nothing but the result of physical form.

Neither of us has the right to belittle the others view as being unrealistic. The Eastern Mystical view has just as much merit in light of our scientific knowledge of this universe as does the pure type of atheism that you have chosen to believe in.

So that's my position on that.



Again, I'm in complete agreement with you on this.

I really don't care what the "followers" of the ancient Hebrew myths do. It's the mythology itself that I find totally absurd.

Although, having said that, I also confess to not being pleased with the negative effects this ancient myth has on many people who claim to be its "follower" and worship it as the "Word of God".

I feel much the same way. It's really hard for me to believe that so many people, not only believe this crap, but will truly go out of their way to defend it, justify it, and perpetuate it against such obvious evidence that it's nothing more than a truly ignorant folklore from a society that wasn't all that great itself.

However, I think we really need to put thing in perspective here. We are living in an extremely 'abnormal time' historically speaking. The modern technologies that we take for granted are extremely new. It wasn't all that long ago with then stuff was in its extreme infancy.

For example, I was born the same year that the transistor was invented. So for practical purposes all of the solid-state electronic devices that we see around us today didn't even exist when I was born. Sure they had some crude vacuum tube devices prior to that, but even those don't go all that far back.

In other words, only a mere couple hundred years ago people were still living in log cabins and delivering messages via pony express.

This religious fable has been around for well over 2000 years. And it has been the focal point of western society for all that time. So not only has it become popular, but it's also become quite traditional. Large stone churches have been built around it. Large organizations of very 'serious somber people' act like it's real and that it should be taken very seriously. And society in general had come to accept this as the "Norm" for thousands of years.

Add to that, that this religion considers it to be "Blaspheme against God" to even question the religion or speak out against it. To do so is considered by the religion itself to be the only "Unforgivable Sin". In other words DONT'T EVEN THINK ABOUT!

HOW DARE YOU QUESTION GOD!

That was the attitude that this religion was built around. People didn't causally say, "Has anyone ever considered whether these ancient stories might be false"

WHOA! What are you suggesting??? BLASPHEME!!!

That very THOUGHT can only come from Satan himself!!!

To question "God's Authority" is to be like SATAN!!!

How can you even suggest such a thing?

That was the attitude. Especially of the clerics who wanted to preserve their power and authority of the CHURCH. Don't even bring up such a topic. It's utterly TABOO!

This kind of attitude reigned surpreme for thousands of years, and was still alive an well as recently as the days of Isaac Newton.

Isaac Newton himself was very interesting in "Knowing God" and understanding the Bible. Historians say that he devoted more time and effort studying theology than he spent on studying physics. I find that hard to believe myself since he accomplished so much in physics and mathematics, yet they say that this is true. I also saw a documentary that claimed that Isaac Newton owned something like 200 bibles, and these weren't just copies of the same book, back then there were simply a lot of versions of the story running around I guess.

In any case, Newton's conclusion after having studied the religion in such depth was that Jesus could not have been the son of Yahweh. This is the very same conclusion I came to. I came to this conclusion BEFORE I even knew that Isaac Newton had concluded this.

However, Isaac Newton couldn't even publicly state his views on this because to do so would have been far too dangerous in his time and place. At best he would have been stripped of any authority and recognition for his works, at worst, he could have faced hanging for blaspheme against the church.

Historically speaking this was just "yesterday". Just a few hundred years ago.

So historically speaking we're only just now emerging from those highly superstitious times. Science and medicine were only just getting underway.

These religions are basically still just 'coasting' along under the sheer momentum of just how powerful they had been on the human Psyche.

It's going to take time for mankind to awaken from the nightmare. But it will happen.

On the bright side, consider the following:

The vast majority of young people today reject formalized organized religion. "Designer Christianity" is the Fastest Growing religion in the world. However, don't take that to mean that it's recruiting "new members" it's not. What's actually happening is that the children of Christians are rejecting the church and choosing to take a "Personal Walk with Jesus". And fortunately this is a good thing.

From your point of view it may appear that this people are continuing to cling to the "superstition" and they are. But they are not clinging to, or supporting the organized religion and churches.

The "Designer Christians" are becoming more and more divisive in what they believe to be 'acceptable'. They seldom agree with each other on the details of what Jesus actually represent. They are paying less and less attention to the actual Bible and spending far more time arguing for moral values that they merely personally feel that Jesus should stand for.

In short, Christianity is dying rapidly. But it's not going to show up in the statistics because all these "Designer Christians" continue to check the boxes marked "Christianity". They continue to define the basic idea that "Jesus is God", and that Jesus will "save" their soul.

I agree, even that is still craziness. But at least they are rejecting the organized religions and churches. Even if they still attend them to some degree, they aren't prepared to back the churches in a major way. Especially if they feel that the church is going against their idea of what Jesus SHOULD stand for.

So these religions are dying out a lot faster than you might imagine, and a lot faster than simple statistic suggest. But the idea that "Jesus saves" will probably hang around for quite a while. Jesus himself will be the very last thing that these people finally let go of. And it will take them a while to get over him.

And I think that people will always revere him as a man who at least tried to teach love, even if those teachings became distorted by the religion that stole his name sake.

Jesus will never be forgotten by history itself. Let's face it, he ranks right up there with Confucius, Buddha, and Mohammad. None of those men will be forgotten by history even if their spiritual teachings are totally dismissed altogether, they will still be remembered as powerful historical figures. At least in the sense of having left deep impressions on the way cultures lived.

You lack imagination of what governments are capable of. Right now, there's a bill being considered that would force all social networking and EMAIL sites, such as this one, to write into their computer code a backdoor so that government can, at any time, w/o a warrant, see who's saying what and to whom. It's not much of a stretch to think they won't have programs running to catch key words or phrases that anyone writes, anywhere, on the internet. But hey, it's to catch muslim terrorists so I guess it's ok. I'm sure it'll never be used for any other purpose.
Oh and don't forget the bill that says, in essence, any time you voice an opinion on the internet, you MUST include links to webpages that have a different opinion on the same subject. Yeah, that won't curb free speech at all...
Not to mention the bill that says any opinion mentioned on the radio MUST be matched with equal time for the opposition. Or the radio station gets fined, something in the 6 figure range. Good bye talk radio.

These days Christian is usually just a title. Doesn't mean they follow God's word, doesn't mean anything along those lines. That is why i don't claim to specifically Christianity in the exact tense. I follow God's word, weather you want to call that a Christian or not is your choice. So again please don't let people that call themselves "christian" destroy the word of God for you. There is no such thing as HOLY wars, nor Christian crusades in it's exact sense. Jesus has told us to turn the other cheek, thus the crusades and anything of such does NOT support anything our father has instructed us to do or not to do.

And it's not about beating the "fear" of God into anyone. It's about revealing the truth and the love of our father to those that have been blinded by the world and it's views.

I never really get a chance on these forums to discuss the brilliance of mysticism. Any conversations along those lines almost always deteriorate into Christians arguing for the Biblical picture of God.

When it comes to pure atheism, as you portray it, I have many reasons why I feel that mysticism is a wiser picture, even from a purely "scientific" point of view.

I tried to discuss this with you before but to no avail. As long as your happy with the idea that your essence is nothing more than an 'emergent property' of a bunch of spiritually inert stuff, then there isn't much sense in attempt to convince you otherwise.

I'm not having a "battle" with anyone. It only appears that way to people who don't understand what's going on here.

I'm just bouncing off the comments that religious zealous make to reveal how absurd their claims truly are. I'm not actually trying to convince the person whose posts I'm responding to of anything. I realize that he is not going to see the light.

In fact, Cowboy would like for me to "move on" because he perceives me to be an obstacle in the way of his goal. I, on the other hand am tickled pink that Cowboy continues to post in the GR because it just give me tons of thing to respond to.

As I've said many times. I'm not "debating" with Cowboy. I'm just pointing out the fallacies of his claims for others to see.

I fully realize that he is not going to change his view. His view is that the Bible is the word of God and Jesus was the Christ, and that's that. Period amen. Blind faith all the way.

Well, that may be true, but it hasn't happened yet. Although as stupid as governments have been, and continue to be, that wouldn't surprise me at all.

I personally can't see anyone preventing free speech at this point of technological advancement. It would be pretty hard to keep people from saying what they want to say with all the means of communication available today.

In truth, I don't see where any government could prevent free speech at this point. Maybe on an individual basis. If they started arresting individuals and giving them horrible punishments they might be able to scare the masses into silence. But to actually control what's being said on a large scale? I personally don't believe that would even be technologically doable.

If you know much about the Internet, you'll know that even the expert technologists are having a hard time keeping things "under control" as it is. Much less trying to monitor individual speech.

I just heard on NPR radio that in India over 800 million people have mobile phones. Yet only 300 million have toilets!

So free communications is running wilder than diarrhea.

Just a little joke there, but not far from the truth.

They just were not strong Christians, please don't let them paint the picture as to how a Christian is to be. No where does our father tell us to do as such. Actually tells us to do quite the opposite. The father doesn't teach us to treat anyone in any special way, as in treat atheists, people of other beliefs, and Christians the same way...... with love and respect.

Meh, I don't necessarily agree with 5th grade show.

My dad learned basic algebra in high school. I got basic algebra in 8th grade. When I struggled with it in the 10th grade, he told me this was stuff they would have learned in 3rd year college.

As we find more things, the information drops down younger and younger to what the kids are taught.

I honestly can't say now as I could give a solid description on prepositional phrases, participles, etc., much less some of the science stuff that we were never taught, that they're getting at the fifth grade level. Heck, my first year in college, the English professor walked in and told us everything we had learned in school was BS, and we were free to write any way we liked, so long as it made sense.

Now, I do believe, if one is going to preach religion, they need to know all facts and history, good, bad, and ugly. Otherwise, they don't need to preach. After all, one can find tons of information on biblical stories that have been proven to have a scientific background, which changes the entire meaning and generally negates the woo-woo mysterious miracle.

Just look at what's happening here.

This web site was kind enough to provide the Christians with their very own forum where they can discuss their religious beliefs among themselves without having to argue with non-Christians.

Yet what is happening? Christian proselytizers continually come to the General Religious forums to proselytize their religion harass the non-christion and call them "Morons" for not believing that the ancient Hebrews speak for God.

Here's what Cowboy had to say:


Move on?

What is this? The Crusades all over again?

Christians invading the General Religion Forums telling everyone who doesn't believe that the ancient Hebrews speak for God to "Move On"?

This is the problem with a totally intolerant proselytizing religion. Anyone who refuses to believe in your religious mythology is a moron, an atheist, etc, etc, etc.

It's disgusting.

Is Cowboy even speaking in terms of "General Religion"?

No he's not. All he ever posts here are comments that demand that the Bible is the infallible word of God and that Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God who must be recognized as God. Anything else is totally unacceptable to him. He won't consider anything else.

He's basically breaking the rules of the General Religion Forum by using them to constantly and relentless proselytize his religion.

The Special Rules for the General Religion Forum state:

"Also, topics which are designated for response exclusively from one religion or belief system, or which may cause that type of polarization, will be deleted. The concept behind these forums is to encourage anyone to participate and post their opinions and thoughts as long as they are on-topic. Topics which do not adhere to that philosophy will be removed, and the poster may lose his/her posting privileges."

Yes Cowboy is telling me that if I don't accept his Biblical Views I should "Move On". And all he's doing is proselytizing Christianity.

He totally ignores all of the absurdities and contradictions that are brought up by other people. He simply refuses to acknowledge them, pretends they don't exist, and continues his proselytizing campagine.

He's just abusing these forums and using them as a pulpit to preach Christianity. He's clearly not open to any "General Religion" discussions. As far as he's concerned Jesus is the Christ and that's that. There's nothing to discuss. Just accept that Jesus is God or "Move on".

There are many topics worthy of discussion in world religions and spiritual philosophies.

I have presented very sound evidence of why it makes far more sense that the old fables of the ancient Hebrews are totally ungodly.

1. They support male-chauvinism
2. They support slavery
3. They support bigotry
4. They support violence and bloodshed
5. They contradict the very nature of the God they describe.
6. They contain totally unrealistic stories (like Noah and the Ark)
7. They have their God directing people to mass murder "heathens".

The list goes on, and that's just the Old Testament.

In the New Testament we have a man who taught moral values that didn't even come close to matching the moral values in the Old Testament. Instead, the teachings of this man match up far better with the teachings of Mahayana Buddhism and the actions of a Bodhisattva. So the idea that Jesus was teaching from this perspective is a very valid idea.

I think the Christians don't like this scenario because it make far too much sense, and therefore does indeed pose a genuine potential threat to their current belief that they can trust everything the authors of the New Testament had to say in Jesus' Name.

So it's important for people to realize that Jesus did not write the New Testament, nor did he even instruct anyone to write any such documents. The whole entire story is hearsay that wasn't even authorized by the man named Jesus.

This is important information that people need to become aware of.

It's called "Education and Enlightenment". Something that Christianity, being a product of the Dark Ages, has little or no understanding of.

Now, Cowboy would like me to "Move on" from the General Religion Forums because I refuse to accept Christianity on Blind Faith.

Peter_Pan just likes to call people "Morons".

However, I'm confident that people who read my posts see the wisdom and many years of education behind my words. I'm not preaching blind faith. I'm asking people to take an open-minded intellectual look at an ancient fable that is truly absurd, IMHO.

And I'll be the first to confess that all of this is indeed "my opinion and view". But isn't that what the General Religion Forums are all about?

Cowboy is just frustrated because I do make so much sense and he knows it. I show the flaws in the ancient Hebrew mythology that he's trying to sell to people in the "Name of God".

As long as I have the power of FREE SPEECH I will continue to share the wisdom I have learned.

By the way, Peter Pan, are we also supposed to believe that men like Isaac Newton, Albert Einstein, Stephen Hawking, Carl Sagan and many other great minds of humanity are "Morons"?

Everything that I say about the ancient Hebrew mythology is true. It's ungodly, inconsistent, and truly utterly absurd in places.

That's my personal view after having been exposed to this religion for 61 years of life.

Albert Einstein had this to say about it:

"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbour such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms." (Albert Einstein, obituary in New York Times, 19 April 1955)

He also had this to say:

"The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It should transcend personal God and avoid dogma and theology. Covering both the natural and the spiritual, it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things natural and spiritual as a meaningful unity. Buddhism answers this description. If there is any religion that could cope with modern scientific needs it would be Buddhism." - (Albert Einstein)

So I'm in good company in my views and thus I am not bothered by religious fanatics who call everyone a 'moron' who doesn't buy into their blind faith religion.

You people are clearly losing the intellectual debate. When you resort to asking other people to "Move on" and calling them "Morons" it's a clear sign that you recognize the truth they are speaking and that you cannot address these point intellectually. So rather than confess defeat, you attempt to slaughter the character of your "perceived enemy".

Christians resorting to their "Crusade" tactics once again. History repeats itself. Just destroy the non-believers, either have them removed physically, or assassinate their character.

Today's world has moved into an era of Free Speech and with the advent of the Internet, freedom of speech will soar to an even higher level. These religions that rely on keeping people oppressed through the silencing of the lambs will soon die out and Einstein's vision of a world that moves onto a more philosophically sound spiritual view will finally come to pass.

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That great nation is not the country of Israel or the Jewish people of today. The name, "Israel," was given to Jacob, Abraham's grandson. Jacob's 12 sons were literally the children of Israel. The word Israel in Hebrew means: "He strives with God and prevales." Christians are figuratively or symbolicly the children of Israel. Christians have become children of Israel through Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant.
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This is supported by the bible, which is why i said it.
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You are a perfect example of why Christianity truly sucks. It only serves to create people like you. People who think that only THEY can speak for God and everyone else is mistaken, confused, and blind.
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I never said such a thing. I didn't say i speak for God, the bible is God's word. Thus only relaying what the word of God says, not in anyway saying i speak for God.
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You are a perfect example of why atheists truly suck. It only serves to create people like you. If you don't believe it, fine move on. Nothing personal taken. But no atheists sit and debate over and over. If there is no God fine, move on. Let us people that believe in the father waste our time. So we may talk about God, preach if you may to atheists. Just let it roll off your back and move on, we won't hunt you down i promise. Why stick around causing problems and foul emotions amongst two people debating? What do you gain? As you can see this or that person isn't willing to bend in their beliefs, why not just move on to another and not waste your time with this person that is steadfast?

Deuteronomy 15:12-15
12 If a fellow Hebrew, a man or a woman, sells himself to you and serves you six years, in the seventh year you must let him go free. 13 And when you release him, do not send him away empty-handed. 14 Supply him liberally from your flock, your threshing floor and your winepress. Give to him as the Lord your God has blessed you. 15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and the Lord your God redeemed you. That is why I give you this command today.
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Ephesians 6:9
And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him
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Colossians 4:1
Masters, provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven.
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As you can see it's not the same as the slavery the world has seen in the past recent of years. It's quite different, it wasn't cruel or evil, it was fair and caring. And it also if you notice wasn't "forced" these men and women sold themselves to the person, thus it's like employment to an extent. These people were willing to be this person's slave, or that person's slave.

let them believe what they want when they die as i typed before they'll be disappointed

Street performing is legal in the US under constitutional law, free speach. Here's more information and yes, that's me oin the photo.

http://www.fwweekly.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2647:panhandling-law-hampers-buskers&catid=38:music&Itemid=399

hmmmmmmmm, now we have historical evidence and scientific evidence. If all this evidence points it to be true, why would we only pick and choose what may be true in the bible? Why would it not be safe to think the rest of it is to since it can't be proven either way? Or well hasn't been proven. More has been proven true about the accounts of the bible then proven false, for the simple reason NOTHING has been PROVEN false about the bible. But yet things have been proven true....... hmmmmmm.