whoa there big guy!!!!!

where do you get that from what I quoted?

Charles Manson comes to my mind about te people the Word is talking about, not non-christians.

You have a seriously confused filter going on.

Sometimes you really surprise me. I am showing you how wrong those preachers are and you see it as a personal attack on you, and not what it is.

The fear tactics are in your imagination apparently.

It it evident that no matter what you saty your problem with Christianity is, it changes by the moment.


Abra, for an intelligent man you are quite ignorant and downright stupid sometimes. Honestly, you just continue to morph things anti-Abra into anti-truth and reality for the sake of being so stupendously self righteous.

The book , as you say , doesn't say that in the description of hell, but you filter it to protect your illusions. To further justify your own fabrications of ahat it actually says. And you cannot see that in your blindness, Abra. The blindness is in your own inability not to draw from external criticisms of words that have come to be meaaning that which you engender upon them and not what they actually say.

Dogma? Do you realize that evrything you purpose to say is dogma, Abra?

You are the King of Dogma! You don't, howver, have eexclusive rights to dogma as a toll of contentiousness, do you really?


How you find fear in these things that were comforting you away from the fear based arguments that have alienated you so horrifically only leaves me to assume that you either don't read the poss out of sheer contempt for the citing of the questionable conclusions you draw, or that you are concealing a darkness in your heart that you must covertly mask from view in order not to be found wanting for your dogmatic cynicism.

The whole point is that corrupt dogma has nothing to do with God.

Ypou have embraced so thoroughly a corruption of sound communication and reduced it to your own level of contempt.

Nothing more inherently judgemental and offensive as that, Abra.

You embrace the false teachers that you decry with aplomb when it suits your temper tantrum to do so.




Grow up, man!!!!

Quit the childish whining and think of better things to do than sit around and bad mouth things that you obviously cannot understand OUT OF BOTH SIDES OF YOUR MOUTH!!!

Is that plain talk.???

Ypu bet it it is.

Sit down and be quiet.

You don't want answers and you don't seek to be understood or even comprehended in the things that you spout.

Clearly, you just want to be coddled.

How's it go, Abra????

poor, poor pitiful Abra, so misunderstood and offended.

Stop sending out misinformation and offensive attacks on things yyou canot comprehend.

What else is there?

Oh yeah!!

I am so maligned by fascist onslaughts against my better judgement. Poor, poor me.

Well, get off your high horse then, Abra, and talk to and with people rather than at them like a preacher with a mission to reshape all of history as though it just occured to you that you are in a hell of someone else's making. It is your own hell.

It is Abra 101. Spouting and proselytizing the JSH threads wit pantheistic debate and conjecture and dogma and rhetoric and unfounded conclusory judgements that preclude any and all as inferior to your supreme mastery of amiguous and complacent apathy toward life and love and honor and duty.

Just sit down and shut up if all you want is to be king for a day and a week and a month and a year.



It is amazingly simple, Abra.

You wax eloquent about God and the deficiencies of God according to your own self righteous judgemental and argumentative opinionations about anything contrary to your own little bubble that you have so ineptly considered deft and fitting for all.

Your views are licentiuously marginal Abra.

Lecentiousness is your own doing. You have mastered the art of non-commital arrogance.

And you will continue to spout and cry foul because your feelings are hurt.


Well, it's your party, Abra.


toot your horn, baby.

make a joyful noise and a clattering racket while you are at it.

Hype up your discord for things not to bearing your dissimulations.

Ratchet it up into a frenzy, Abra. The momentum is deafening.

The all inclusive thread owner is charging to the rescue of wayward delusions with fan fare and an army of innumerable vastness.

Praise be your huge congregation of fellow obstinates.




There is no anger and there is no antipathy either, Abra.

NO fear, nothing despicable, no accusations and no double standards either Abra.

Only you and the world of Abra.

That is all you see Abra.


JUST ABRACADABRA.

it is rhetorical nonsense .

Oh come on Wouldee, you say things like this and then accuse me of reading personal accusations into your posts?

You’re just upset because everything I say make so much sense.

The biblical account of God isn’t hardly any differnet from all other mythologies at the time. On the contrary it’s extremely status quo.

And then I point out the obvious fact that the biblical account of God is a picture of a God who solves thing in the same way that the men of the day would solve problems.

I just chose to not believe that the creator of this universe thinks like a medieval war monger.

If you’re happy with that archaic picture of a less than wise God more power to you. No need to tell me to ‘grow up’ just because you can’t handle the fact that what I say might actually be true.

I would like to see humanity move forward and get out from under this archaic mythology that accuses everyone of being inherently sinful and in need of repentance. I’m sick of that extremely negative view of life.

All that view does Wouldee is make decent people have guilt complexes for no good reason. It doesn’t change the behavior of people who genuinely desire to do bad things. We’ve seen this all throughout history.

It’s a useless religion that apparently isn’t constructive. It’s time we move forward to something more positive. A philosophy that’s genuinely based on love and on the constant finger-pointing to blame people for being sinners.

My motivation for moving beyond this negative view of God couldn’t be more divine.

I’m thinking of humanity as a whole. I believe it would be great to get out from under the cloud of dogmatic religions. And yes, I support a pantheistic view. However, think of it like this,… First, pantheism isn’t dogmatic. And secondly, at least I’m not spouting atheism.

I’d just like to see us move on from the judgmental religion that has everyone pointing fingers at each other.

I’m not saying that it’s evil to believe in it. But I will say that it’s unhealthy and I think history has already proven that fact.

From Wouldee's post:



The "fearful and unbelieving" (Those without faith, or those who do not believe in ... what?)

"the abominable" would that include the abominable snow man?

"murderers" (would that include soldiers who slaughter civilians on command, or are they exempt because it is a "war."?)

"whoremongers" What are whoremongers? Killers or whores?

"sorcerers" What is a sorcerer? Are you saying you believe in black magic? Or would that include a tarot card reader?

"idolitors" That could be anyone who worships material things. Their car perhaps. Or even a statue of Christ could be an idol.

"liars" Geeeze... we are all going to hell I see,.



I wouldn't take this passage seriously. It is just someone ranting I think.

JB

This isn't about me Abra. It is your rant about preachers promising you hell for not giving them your adoration and money, and then denying that the thing you and I are discussing is just that,

I know your rants and I know your agenda.

Who's in a trap?

what is the snare?

I am telling you what time it is...disarming your foolishness, Abra.

Not fun to field is it?

Rhetorical jibberish and he said, she said, they said.

Just let it go and eat your words.

Give it a rest.
Think of a new way to run down what alis you about everything not upo to Abra's snuff.

Just give the trampling of the Chrsitian thougt a rest.

Or pick up new stones to throw at other transparencies.
I really don't mind.

Your circular arguments are hypothetical conjecture and illusions that have no merit. Just more conclusory judgements from you off the top of your head.

Should I allow it to stand and give it up and accept that your harrassment and wearing down with spin tactics is anything more than your twisted humor and need for attention?

it is diffusive of your answering for your own unfounded rtremarks.

Change the subject again.

This time do it by leaving your excuses to me for your lack of concentration un touched and unanswered.

Your much speaking does you no good. You just evade and spin it into sometthing else that suits you at any given moment, as long as it doesn't call you onto the carpet for your own hasty words.

I am not as absent minded as you hope.

I am very aware of your antics and evasiveness, Abra.

Try quieting down the dogma.

Proselytizing me is backwards and sophomoric. You have bben yarded by my sattention to the context, which you ignorte intentionally and deliberately.

End your rants and preaching. I am not interested in it.

I don't buy into your hoillow dissimulations that are nothing more than conjecture and intellectual machinations.

Just give it up. You have been caught in hasty words and don't like looking stupid. I don't blame you. If I thought you were playing around cavalierly when I set out to give you my time, I would have r3efrained from it, had it been discerned that you are merely, once again, jackjawing rhetoriuc to hear yoursaelf eloquate judgemental complacency and apathy with circular denial.


see ya......

Jeannie,

What? you too?

clowning me again?

Wasn't Abra looking for a teachable insight into the biblical hell?

Who gives a rip what you think of writings that are not contextualized for any other purpose than to be referenced to Abra to finds for his own llazy self?

Are you so ;lazy and bored that you need to play mommy of the block and poke needless fun at things you don't understand?


Let me make it clear to you.

Abra was whining about preachers delivering everybody to hell.

That is his lesson on being careful with his words and knowing what he is talking about.

I don't care what preacher said what he whines about. I don't care that Abra shoots from the hip.

I don't really care what you think either.

Not when it comes to chiming in on something that irrelevant to you.

I wasn't talking to you aND CERTAINLY NOT ABOUT GOBLINS AND WITCHES AND FAIRIES, jEANNIE, OOPS caplock key...read around it.

Gey off the high horse. Play with the others. Don't insult me with your huffy little snipes about some passage.

It is the transparency of my position that irks you and the fact that I am in sync with that which is upon me.

So what? You are entitled to worship anyhting you want, and make sport of anything you want.

But when you adress me, mean something by it other than being foolishly shallow, off topic and incoherent in your jesting about a writing that is known to be addressing the known contemptible behaviors of the day.

Set this histrionics appropriately and grasp the point, instead of clowning me over the piciune details that are merely minutia to the point about good people of any stripe not being excluded from the things of zgod and certainly not according to the things of the day. Get a grip!!

You are not talking to a talking head here.


In case it slipped your mind, Abra has changed the discourse, himself, and wishes to digress into a different diatribe now. As you have done, equal in neglect to Abra, and yet I remind you that he sought to suggest that the prevalence of hell for non-christians is the message in the Bible.


It is not, and I have cited the limitations upon which hell, any one of three distinctly different words with different meaNINGS HAVE BEEN LUMPED TOGETHER IN eNGLISH, a whole of 23 times in the Bible out of some 747,000 words contained therein.


Sounds like an alarmist accusation to suggest that preaachers are preaching hell.

They are wrong that do, and Abra is wrong for being so pointedly laughable in his unsubstantiated rhetoric.

What is your excuse?

Feeling the need to be smug?

Let it go.

you are out oof place, off topic, out of context and mired in meaninglwess minutia.

Don't quote me and don't bring me into your fun and games.

I am not amused. Don't waste my time with sarcasm either.


Now, I will return to my peace of mind and if when you irk me, I will remind you publicly.

Feel free to play in your sandbox just as you wish, but be mindful of messing with things that you really don't understand.

In this case it is this little insignificant remark of Abra's that preachers are preaching hell and becausethey are a majority, in his opinion, they must be preaching the truth.


NOT!!!!

So, let it go. I am not biting the bait.


run along......

Now you know how all the non-Christians feel about the constant proselytizing of Christianity. When people start proselytizing Christianity to those who already claim to know God in their own way they are trampling on the thoughts of those folks.

I’m taking this modern day and age of free speech to speak out on behave of all the witches who were burned at the stakes, and all the so-called sinners who were stoned to death by Christians in ancient history. I speak for them.

I’m the ghost of murders past that were carried out in the name of the Biblical God.

I see no reason to stop voicing my view as long as Christianity, as an organized religion, is spewing their proselytizing campaigns all over the world.

You get tired of hearing me. I get tired of hearing them.

The beautiful thing for you is that you can just skip over my posts. For me, the proselytizers are everywhere. They’re all over the Internet. They’re in every chat room and forum on religion.

Even on this site its impossible to discuss something like pantheism without the Christians coming in to proselytize Christianity. You’re tired of my little itty bitty posts? Imagine how I feel being told that I’m rejecting God, I’m a sinner in need of repentance and salvation, I’m siding with Satan or I’m possessed by evil spirits. Do you think I don’t get tired of hearing that.

At least I don’t accuse anyone of those things. All I’m addressing is ancient mythologies and pointing out why they make no sense.

When Christianity takes a break from proselytizing their agenda (and thus trampling on the beliefs of all non-believers), then I’ll take a break from proselytizing my views that the Bible is nothing more than manmade mythology. After all, I seriously believe this to be true. It’s a valid view on religion.

Why should I be made to shut up? Can’t Christianity stand up to a little skeptical criticism? Am I making too much sense?

Can you explain why a supposedly all-wise all-loving God always solves problems using violence?

I haven’t seen anyone comment on this yet.

Wouldee,

In case you don't realize it, Wouldee, (and as you pointed out)~this is a public forum.

You are way too serious about yourself and your pompous point of view.

If I want to butt into a ridiculous and futile exchange on this thread, I will, since this is a public conversation.

If you want to lecture Abra in private then send him a message in private outside of this forum.

So who do you think you are that you can scold and dismiss me with "run along"?

Oh, yeh, I know, you like to remind everyone how "intelligent" you are and how high your I.Q. is and how you are a member of Mensa.

Nobody cares, and you won't gain respect by doing that.

You must either have a very high opinion of yourself, or else you have an inferiority complex you are trying to make up for.

You are easily "irked." You are the one who needs to "let it go."

You can sure dish it out, but you sure can't take an ounce of it.

JB

what do you mean, "Know I know?"

Are you on Pluto, Abra? What have I said many times months ago, but the very same thing?

I don't need for you to reduce this to a tit for a tat in your own mind as though I have just woke up from a dysfunctional slumber and only to realize that I am running out of road and smack dab into an orchard of fruit trees that are going to eat my lunch if I don't steer clear.

Speaking for witches and fairies, now, ABRA? hOWQUAINT. yOU HAVE MY PERMISSION, AS THOUGH YOU NEED IT. lol

oops

You are depicting your fantasy. Cool, knock yourself out. they need you.

Many people desire a soapbox. Fine. But that is not our conversation really, is it?

Thje proseletizing nightmare has no better advocate than you. Rock on! Preach to the choir, my friend. I am amused.

It is just that every once and a while, you will say something that is just a little to hasty and just a little too ludicrous, and thought I will give you the benefit of the doubt and speak to you about an oversight that you have made, innocently enough, I also know that you will vociferously defend your remarks with spin, if at all.

To that, I take humbrage, Abra. Keep it pithy with me or let it go, mny friend.

What I find beautiful is that you can be quite eloquent with that which is your passion, but you do not need to overshadow your wisdom with the follishness of miring yourself into being the very thing that you despise. It is unbecoming of you to suggest that others proselytize any more cleverly and tenaciously than you do for pantheism.

The tide of Christendom is a swelling ebb and flow that you will never stem. Why bother with endless toil when you can better serve your views by immaculately expressing your passion and the compassion found place in that embrace? You do yourself disservice.

Everyone here, except for the newbies, already knows your position about ancient mythologies, and pantheism is one as well. It is a bit disengenuous to suggest otherwise without acknowledging that your enthusiasm is genuine but not original.

Neither is mine for the love of God in Christ! I got me the Holy Ghost. But I don't whine about it, or whine about those that don't and I certainly do not make fun of people that have their views and opinions and struggles and wrestling mtches with life. We all share and we all have a heart for the things that evoke our pasions and enthusiasm, or we just ignore them, don't we? Let bygones be bygones.


We both realize that not all men contemplate such ethereal notions as highly prised components of life.

Honestly, Abra, I don't mean for you to shut up entirely. Just stop the endless squealing about Christianity's contentious ones that really haven't got it any more digested than you do, even though they have been touched by the things of the Lord and are in awe of Him and the Holy Spirit.

Why do you meddle with another man's joy? So what if they rile you. Rile back. But don't grate on me about it. It isn't my fight. zIt is apparently yours.

Did you ever stop to consider that it only happens because you battle with men about spiritual things that are not just men?

Spiritual influences abound, Abra.


And lastly, Abra, about you contention that an all-loving God always solves problems with violence.....it seems men fulfill such self fulfilling prophecies, doesn't it. Ever consider that it is not God, but men that are using God for a cloak of their foolishness and to their own short term advantage and privelege?

People want to see miracles. They all are quick to blame God for the Violence. Muslims blame Christians and jews and murder Buddhists and sikhs wholesale . Jews in Israel kill Christians and muslims with impunity in the name of Israel. The Palestinian Christians aren't heard from much. It is assumed that all Palestinians are muslim. Au Contraire, mon ami.

Give me proof that this God you despise does these things. Show me God doing it and I will believe it.

Prove it with what, Abra? The Bible? It says many things, but where is the proof? That Christ was swung from a Cross and his blood spilled to prove that he is dead by virtue of the blood letting? That only proves that Christ was refused, not embraced.

Man proves all the violence, and claim is given to God.

In a court of law they can't prove it. They are murderers.

That is an abomination Abra. Beyond wickedness. Beyond evil.

The angels are not ever given credit for such things as that, are they? If they are so powerful, why are they depicted as entering man and influencing man to the degree that man acts out in murderous orgy?

That is proof that God is violent? Irt proves thast man is just avoiding accoutability for his wrongdoing in depriving another of his life.

It doesn't excuse the U.S. either. Or the fact that that soldiers will give their lives for this country and its peace within its borders.

This country is divided in ways that may very well lead to another civil war. Look around Abra and touch that in your heart. If you can. It may be coming very soon because of the greed and avarice and lies and the free lunches that must be paid for.

America id for sale to the highest bidder, one piece at a time.

Where can that end but with war? Blaming God? Look at men. NOT GOD! God is not doing any of it, but watching and warning and crying over the foolishness that is man.


God is loving and kind. He is not a tyrant. He is not even flesh, when we get down to it.

The Creator os the Father, as Jesus has said. His Father. But the I AM is not human nor is the I AM a creaed being.

The word GOD is about Jesus Christ, Satan, and any other divinity that is better translated as "guiding light". I say this over and over and I am not the only one, but perhaps the only one here on JSH saying it. That doesn't make me right or wrong. Just different than the typical assumption about GOD!

God is the term given the "angel of a nation" or the "spirituaul guide" of a discipline.

Jesus is Supreme over them all. Is that so bitter?

None other stops Jesus Christ from doing as He pleases. NONE!!!

But the Creator is the head of Christ!

CHrist is the judge, and excuses all with the same measure that all excuses their fellow man.

Why is that so difficult to grasp?

But after the judgement, Christ sits dwn with His friends and chills.

Tha Father then is revealed to all.

It is in the Book. It is overlooked, but there, nonetheless, just as I say it is.

Jesus isn't a warlord and isn't a despot or a fascist or a dictator. Neither is the Father.

Those that want to play games with God are given a game to play, Abra.

Chief among them are the poor Jewish people whose family heritage has been besmerched by their own doings as an example to all, only because Jesus came through their ranks.

But what of all the people that are all related back to the beginning of man and their myths parallel the myth that so disturbs you. It is all one big happy dyefunctional family called man, Abra.

Pick your place. Be it pantheism. Fine. Be faithful to it and don't throw stones. Be the best pantheist you can. Your life depends on your faithfulness and goodwill towards man, not on the abuses. Not on the corruption of other men.


But for all my much speaking, it is just to remind you that God is not the violent one.

What is thrown down is thrown down by men.

If God is influencing that to your detriment and you sense that, then take it up with God.

If God is not sequestering your life from that which you seek to accomplish, then why blame God for the ills of society?

Just because men claim God is responsible does not make it so.

For every passage in the Christian Bible, if you will, I can answer you according to my remarks.

But you and I need to study that alone and over a long period of time, Abra. It is clear, but rushing and jumping to conclusions will lend itself to the contradictions you see.

Every law and every ordinance and every limitation and warning was given after the fact and after much toil and rebellion of people wanting it both ways, Abra.

They dug their own pit. It is their story, not God's.

It is the story that I read of a people that claimed to know God and have his support, but acted independently in contradiction and hypocrisy to that very premise.

I see man acting out.

Lot was warned and left Sodom. OK He heard and walked.

Noah built a boat, OK. He heard a flood was coming. so what?

God gave the insights and only few ever listened.

On and on it goes. Blame GOD?

Look around, Abra..........

Who is really listening for GOD?


llok around.........

the world is a messy place.

It is called MAN!

peace, out.

what?

are you so self important that you still insist on being mommy of the block?

Frolic as you will, be what you choose to be.

Spout your foolishness as though your pre-eminence is guarenteed.

Have fun.

Make jests.

And color it anyway you wish in the last word. I know its coming.


What is it that I cannot take an ounce of, Jeannie?

your intrusion into your snide remarks about a passage? Do you embrace murderers? I doubt it.

Do you like liars, Jeannie? I doubt it.

Perhaps you take offense to sorcerers being called abominable.

Gee, and that accrues to my account....hhhmmm...

Well, How about this?

You are delusional in your use of whatever complacent and ambiguyous readings of cards and bonnes and dice and random happenstances that occur by reading interpretations into picture cards.

It is utter foolishness to me that you would allow yourself to fall prety to fate and not pick yourself up and face the toil of applying your efforts to the good of another in selflessness, foremost, and saecondarily, encouraging others to lift one another up.

Instead, you solice yourself in judging others that will take personal responsibility for living circumspectly in this life knowing that what follows is just as important as what is done today with our lives.

But you are otherwise disposed to believe that it doesn't matter.

Cool. But don't suppose that because you are allowed your convictions with political correctness, or respect for your choices that they are credible enough for you display your ill manners as you see fit at the expense of your whimsical prey.

I am not your prey, Jeannie, nor your doormat.

You would not talk to me in person with the same callous lack of manners and you certainly wouldn't cut in front of me at the checkout of the local grocery store, but it is people like you that will cut in front of my safe distance between vehicles on the freeway because of your sense of self importance and right of way.

But you never consider in doing so that you are creating risk of peril for your lack of foresight and judgement and certsainly only do such things in the safety of your car, or hiding behind your keyboard.


I am not impressed with your wwining and temper tantrum...

run along and get over it, clown.

I am not in the mood to be entertained by you and your antics.

You are only being obnoxious.

peace, out.

You know wouldee, you are the one who is obnoxious and you have no sense of humor at all. You are dry, dull and boring.

You have been rude and dismissive to me in past threads and I ignored it, as I just considered the source. You can't take what you dish out. You are a snob.

And I would say it strait to your face if you treated me the same way in public as you have in this forum. You don't intimidate anyone.

I really don't care about what kind of mood you are in.

JB

Walks in...

Looks around...

Recognizes that we all have been here, in this place of inner turmoil...

Screaming reflections of a funhouse mirror...



Bless us all....

Look within ourselves, my friends...

There will lie the answers...

There will lie the cause...

Hiding the answers...

so true

Well, this just sounds like you’re actually agreeing with me Wouldee. I don’t despise the God of the bible, anymore than I would despise the Greek Gods. They are all myths Wouldee. How can a person despise a myth?

You ask, ‘Show me God doing it and you will believe. And then you suggest that the Bible is not proof.

Seems to me that you are just saying the same thing I am. That the Bible is false mythology.

That’s all I’ve been saying all along Wouldee.

I’m not even talking about God. I’m talking about a false mythology that claims to be the inspired word of God.

If you don’t want to believe that God commanded Joshua to slaughter the men, women, and children in the promised land, then don’t believe it. I don’t believe it.

If you don’t want to believe that God flooded the entire planet to kill every living thing save for a single family on a boat, then don’t believe it. I don’t believe it.

If you don’t want to believe that God gave Satan permission to murder Job’s family just to test his devotion to god, then don’t believe it. I don’t believe it.

If you don’t want to believe that God told people to stone sinners and kill their unruly children, then don’t believe it. I don’t believe it.

If you don’t want to believe that God would purposefully and knowingly send his son to earth for the sole purpose of being brutally murdered by men, then don’t believe it. I don’t believe it.

So then why do you suppose the religion that’s based on these stories if you don’t believe any of these stories?

Christianity is nothing more than a belief in the biblical stories. That’s all it is.

I think a lot of people just want to separate Jesus out of all the rest of it and just worship him because he promised to give them everlasting life. So they try to ignore all the rest of it.

But that’s not Christianity. That’s just a “Designer Religion” that is based on a very tiny part of Christianity. Christianity requires believing in the whole book.

If you want to take Christ out of the rest of the book you’re going to have major problems.

Many people have tried to do that including myself and CreativeSoul, as well as many very famous philosophers and theologians. I still personally believe that Jesus was a Pantheist, and that he got tied into the biblical stories by the authors who wrote about him later. He may have even tried to cater to the beliefs they already had to make pantheism more palatable for them.

The bottom line Wouldee is whether or not you actually believe the Bible. If you believe the Bible then God solves problems with violence. If you want to deny that, then you deny the Bible. Just like I do.

You seem to be denying what I’m saying and simultaneously agreeing with me. You deny that the Bible is myth, but then you go on to say ,…



Just sounds to me like you don’t believe the Bible is true anymore than I do.

Its true, Abra. We just see different things in the writings.

I see man struggling to manipulate every well intentioed inspiration in it.

I see that God is speaking to man and man misuses the word of God in the writings, and that the lesson is the reason for the writings.

Man attempts to satiate the things of God as though one is above the very word of God and that it meant to correct others and not oneself in judgement and importunity.

But at what point is it an angel or a man not acting out when it suits ones purpose to exert will over another in judgement?

At wha point is it also not available for man to ask for a better way?

Many times, more often than not , these violent adherences are the product of acceptance of advantaging and priveleging a few to the detriment of the whole.

It is all precept upon precept that digs the pit and doubles the snare with the net that catches prey and sometimes breaks for the weight of the catch.

Jesus offered the stoners to cast stones if they were free of error. It is also written that the accusers fled the scene and no stoning occured. How much more were these same people bound not to figure that out for themselves?

To what end would these stories be unless there is more to the reason these writings were compiled together, in the first place?
Truly, it is but the writings of the Jews for the Jews, but Christ's presence among the Jews brought about the reason for the writings, in their fullness inclusive of his words. The deeds he performed, bw thwy miracles or divine intervention, served to open the blind eyes to invisible influences and their power.

The only one of full importunity is the offering of the Holy Spirit within Him to be bodily received by the believer of his Words. The miracles were but a sign, but His words speak of personal miracles upon individuals in the form of the indwelling Spirit of God.

The indwelling Spirit of God is what supercedes the law, and the ordinances and that which is not the will of God for man.

The will of God for man is to be in fellowship with God.

In Christ, that is made real through the Holy Spirit given in His name.

That is the point to all of the writings, Abra.

It is that simple.

The rest is just background for comprehending that point.

It is the minutia that obscures the available truth.

Even in ancient times, it is written that Abraham and Enoch and Noah heard God and believed God. There was no law. There was no religion then. No Judaism or Christianity.

It is still true today.



Perhaps you are walking similarly with God, in your pantheistic world view, and that may be well and good. But throwing stones at Christianity as though it is myth and hollow diatribe is errant in and of itself.

The reason is clear to Christians, just for examples' sake.
Christians are called to God through Christ. And through Chrisat, we have access to God directly, by the gift of ther Holy Spirit.
The whole point of the Holy Bible.

The whole of the message of Jesus Christ right there.





What is misapprehended is that Christ and His church is a peculiar fellowship in the whole of eternity and heaven and the afterlife or whatever it may be deemed to be to and for us all after leaving this carnal existence.

And though peculiar, it is also unique.
Unique to heaven, but not the whole of heaven.
Not to the whole of heaven, because as Jesus taught himself, there are others in heaven that don't know him.

Why that is so very hard for all to comprehend is beyond me.

It is in there, and the Christian ought to be more mindful of that than creating the strife to torment others into ignoring Christ's own admission of inclusiveness because they (the non-christian believer in God)themselves don't necessarily embrace the inclusion in the Church of Jesus Christ with the same value as the Christian does.


I affirm that the Holy Bible is the inspired Word of God, Abra.

It is sufficient to bring any person to a saving knowledge of jesus Christ as Lord and Savior for all that seek Him.

It is not a myth.

It is not the violent God you project.

It is a will and testament to the things of God pertaining to Jesus Christ and His message.

It is not duplicitous, nor is it contradictory.


You see excuses, and I see opportunity.

You see embarrassment for yourself in apprehending any of the truth contained therein, as not being truth according to your judgement and understanding.

I see a clarity that had long been obscured having won the day sufficiently to abrogate the narrowminded self centered and alienating misapprehension of God's truth through time and circumstance without regard to the culpability for error being warranted upon such misconceptions and spurious accounting of God's Will for mankind.

And for those that see the truth through the distractions, there is great consolation, Abra.

To the rest, there is not.

It is not up to you nor is it up to me to save the world or warn the world, be it as you see, or as i see, but to acknowledge that all is inclusive with God, if we can at all see any truth at all to a Creator that is not like men, but has made men and does in fact care about man's welfare and content and character for the enrichment of life in it's embrace.

We see different thingss in the same writing.

In that we agree, insufferably.

The same reason children worship their parents. But even children grow up and become responsible for their own lives.

People who cling to religious notions of a father figure God are still clinging to the safety and protection promised to them by these heavenly "parents."

They are not ready to accept the mantle of "growing up" and they don't want to take the responsibility for themselves spiritually.

They need to be saved, as a child needs to be saved who has gotten himself into a jam.

Someday, as it was meant to be, they will grow up and take responsibility for their true selves.

JB

That is interesting......not true but interesting....

I disagree. People would still be worshiping Zeus, Apollo, Poseidon, Aphroditus, and many others if someone hadn’t pointed out that they were nothing more than myths.

I seriously don’t see the biblical picture of God having one iota more merit than Greek mythology. I’m not casting stones at a religion. I’m merely pointing out that it’s not religion at all but merely a mythology. A mythology that causes people to point figures at each other as being sinners, etc.



Don’t look at me. I’m not the one that projects this Wouldee. It’s the what the book says, pure and simple.

Either buy into the book or dump it. But don’t try to make out like I’m the one who’s claiming that the biblical picture of God is violent. The Bible is a collection of stories about a God who constantly solves problems using violence. That’s the truth Wouldee. It’s the truth about what the stories are actually stating. It’s not my truth.



You seem to want to read things into the stories between the lines and ignore what the stories are actually saying. I’m afraid I can’t read your imaginings because I don’t have access to the things you make up between the lines. I only see what the book is actually saying.

I could ignore the book too and pretend its saying something completely different from what it’s actually saying. I just don’t see the sense in doing that. Why make something up that’s totally different from what the actual book says and then turn around and claim to believe in the book?

I’d rather be honest about that fact that I don’t believe what the book says, and that if I had my choice I would have written it differently (i.e. made up my own story in between the lines).

As above, so below.

Whether it is true or not, it is an opinion. My opinion.
That it is not true, is your opinion.

Truth is information, and all information has its opposites and it contradictions.

"Point of view" begets opinions. Opinions are points of view, they are not "truth."

So what is truth?

Truth is information.

JB

Abra.....
because man fell and chose wars and violence , God allowed man to make these choices (especially seen in the old testament)
Man was given Free will, remember?

But God also offered a solution....thru Jesus Christ His Son.
Thus, the reason God allowed Jesus to become the sacrifice for man's sin on that cross.

BUT see ,Abra....
God did NOT stop there..

God Already knew the OUTCOME...
and that is....

that Jesus Would RISE from the dead....and a great Victory would be Won as a result!!!!

Abra.... man's interpretation thru his intellect only,can make the bible appear to be anything man wants the bible to say and become....hence the many different arguments going on.

Abra...it takes seeing the bible thru spiritual eyes.......in other words.... a born again spirit, to make sense of the Word of God.

So, until you are born again, you are only going to see and understand the bible thru your own intellectual interpretation.

Abra...ask God to help you understand about this becoming born again.

Just ask.....like a child...trusting..and He will help you understand