just so you know. We became friends, but I didn't know it was her until i saw her picture on an album.

Knew a lot of people on a first name basis and didn't know who they were.

It didn't matter to us.

never did.

it was a brotherhood that has long been forgotten and the times were of a different meaning what with everyone we knew dying in southeast Asia and the same crap as today being spouted from Ivory Towers.

Nothing has changed, except for those good times ending, and the feeling that we were going to fix this broken country.

We just weren't on the same page.

this is big brother, You have been targeted as a malcontent. You have been reported to the homeland re-education bureau for patriotism training.

freedom is relative.

you can be in prison and be free as a bird.

just as you can be on the outside, free...where you are slave to your house, and your car payment, and your job, and your children who demand more and more material that you gladly provide because you are also a slave to the thoughts of others, your personal status, and having as much or more than the guy next door.

freedom is, in a sense, slavery

that people have Freedom or that freedom is a basic right is a myth ...you have about as much freedom as the outside forces allows you to have and they can take away any freedom you think you have in a heartbeat ....you don't even have the freedom to have your own thoughts

I disagree, respectfully.

I believe that man was created for a longing of knowing God in ones' heart...

That struggle to find the inner joy turns into many triggers being pulled the fire off many detours leading further away from that very early peace that looked like mom, but was bigger than mom.

Freedom ringing as a need in our hearts comes from being bombarded with that which our human environment fires off at us, from the triggers pulled by our predecessors.

The emotional responses that engender so much strife display the anxiety of the heart not being nourished with its needs. The heart being the soul, of course.

Based on the environment given, the struggle is variably enhanced in futility or challenge, and defeat is within, not without.

Calls for freedom are calls for release of burdens. When one is so emotionally overwhelmed so as to discount a loving God's embrace, the struggle turns towards mankind for relief.

Calls to mankind for relief may also become so emotionally overwhelming so as to cause anger and rage or the inverse, complacency and apathy. Neither of which is sufficient to teach the heart how to fill itself with good.

The fruit of our doings is often the inheritance and consequence of our fortune of birth, which may be bereft of of good common sense and abundant in nonsense.

But freedom is always present in the heart, never in need.

It is the longing for truth in the heart that yearns for attention. And that yearning is the measure of faith given all men. That is only taken away by one with disuse. That is only scarred irreparably by oneself, if refusal to exercise that faith has been embraced and nurtured.

That prison need not be the housing of the heart left in an abyss of self pity.

I worship him because he sent his son down to die a horrific death so I wouldn't have to undergo the consequences of my stupid actions.

Yep, he's got absolute power alright, but he also has absolute love. Which would you rather experience? You got a chance at either one if you'd like. Your nickel.

God sent Jesus here to commit suicide ..that was Jesus mission was to get himself killed by the hands of others ..and if God has absolute power and absolute intelligence then you would think he could come up with a better plan then that..one of the message it sent was that it's ok to let your children die even when you have the power or the knowledge to keep it from taking place ..so is this the message of Love believers talk about

Seeing that Jesus and God are one in the same, he kind of sacrificed himself. Back in those days, people sacrificed animals to God. This was a symbol they recognized and the sign of his new covenant.

Jesus also chose to die. He struggled with the decision, but made his own choice.

that Jesus was God is just a Chrisitian belief to justify believers not following The Old Testament ..Jesus was used to lead believers away from the True and First word of God that was set forth in the Old Testament

Duh its a Christian belief, cause Christians follow the teachings of Christ. Thats why they are called Christians silly.

ahh "Chazster".. I'm glad you finally admit that it's only a "Christian belief" and not a truth ..you fell right into that one...now who's the silly

Fell into what? I never claimed it to be truth.

I mean we are on the subject of Jesus Christ so of course we are talking about Christianity.

Thats like talking about Zeus and I mention its ancient Greek belief and you some how think you tricked me into saying that.

"Chazster" as long as you realize that Jesus as God is only a Christian belief and not "truth"

Thats what I have always believed. I don't go around claiming my believe system is truth, and I don't think anyone should. Mutual respect for one another's beliefs is what is really needed.

so then as long as you realize that it's only a "Christian belief" that Jesus was God and not truth then that means that God could have send Jesus here to commit suicide

its not suicide, he accepted his death. It wasn't self inflicted.

Like in the columbine shootings, when they pointed the gun to the girls head and asked if she believed in God. That was not suicide .

Or if there is a shooter and a father shields his family with his own body and dies again not suicide.

it was self-inflicted because Jesus knew what the mission was...it was to die by the hands of another ...it's called "suicide by cop"



so how far in advance did the girl know this? ...did she go to that school because if was foretold to her that this would take place ..Geez "Chazster"...it's kind of creepy that you would use that example



these examples are not something these people accepted would happen to them...dude you actually think these gloomy examples apply to the same perdicment that Jesus was in?

Abra,

In the New Testament hell is mentioned 23 times. Period.

One time in 2Peter2:4 and the word is tartaroo, meaning , to incarcerate in eternal torment: -cast down into hell
"For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast (them) down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto the judgement;"

and goes on to talk about the wicked and evil in whom depravity reigns turned away from goodness to serve corruption.
Verse 19."While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the srevants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage." That is not you, is it?

The next word is hades, and it is used only 10 times.
It means, unseen. or, the place(state) of departed souls: -grave, hell. Is hell the appropriate term?

Mt.11:23 about Capernaum, a city as opposed to Sodom that would fair better for the works done in Capernaum.
Mt.16:18 to Peter, that the grave will not prevail against the chruch.
Lk. 10:15 reiterates Mt.11:23.
Lk. 16::23. The rich man that never helped the crippled beggar is in torment in his grave. Is that you?
Acts2:27,31. teaching that Jesus' body didn't see the corruption of the grave. Pretty clear, isn't it?
Rev1:18, 6:8 speak of the grave, not to damnation.
Rev.20:13,14.says that the grave and death are emptied at the judgement day of Christ and that they, death and hell(the grave) are cast into the lake of fire. But not all men not found in Christ.

Pay attention to Rev.2:8. "But the fearful and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

Is that you, or anyone that you know?




Now then, the last word used is geenna of Hebrew origin and meaning: used (figuratively) as a name for a place (or state) of everlasting punishment: -hell.
It is used twelve times.
It is used depicting desperately wicked and evil men and angels, only.

Is that you?

Luke 12:4,5." And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath the power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him."

Is it God that kills and sends to hell? Or the Destroyer?

To this, Jesus added, "And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth the Holy Spirit it shall not be forgiven.

Have to know it's the Holy Spirit to blaspheme it. Don't you think? Is he talking to you or the church there?
Are you sure that you have the Holy Spirit? It testifies of Jesus. If it doesn't, according to Jesus, it is not the Holy Spirit.

Is that you?

And last but not least, in James 3:6, James is clearly speaking to the Church of Jesus Christ only and warning them of idle words. In verse 1 he says, "My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation."
But there is no new condemnation to those that are in Christ.

Verse 6. "And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell."

This 'hell' is figurative and not literal and is the warning given the church to bridle its emotions.

This last word is wrapped in allegories and metaphors and is clearly a figurative depiction of torment within the conscience, especially those in the church. It's use is wrapped in lessons about conduct, and specifically to the church in a figurative sense.


Where is hell for mankind that isn't christian?

Where iis hell at all for people that are not abhorrant to themselves and others?


It is not in the Holy Bible.


Anybody preaching otherwise needs to get a clue of the damage they are causing in the name of Jesus Christ, whose ambassodors they are by proxy.

If the majority, as you suggest Abra, are preaching and teaching other than the scriptures that I have explained, then they ought to sit down and shut up.

Those that are alienated from God through such erroneous teachings are not lost to God in judgement. God knows who teaches falsehoods and who is being made fearful and doubting of God's love.

God gets His people out of thsoe churches if they will listen to the Spirit and heed the warning.

You got out of false teaching, didn't you?

So did I.

But , let's be fair, here.

False teachers are everywhere. It is the engendering of strife surrounding advantage and privelege that has the power to corrupt.


If you studied the falsehoods, you would have learned better in the last 40 years.

That I am compelled to make the effort for you, speaks to the pity that I share for your frustration.


But supposing that your view of the majority opinion regarding hell and it's doctrines having merit in your comprehension is highly suspect and worthy of pointing out as such.

For your sake, do I do your study.

For the sake of your sorrows do I heed your need.

That I should have to is not relevant. It is my pleasure.

Nothing you have alluded to has anything to do with me Wouldee.

You’re stuck within the fairytale and can’t get out of it.

That’s fine with me, I have no desire to change the way you think.

What I find despicable is the fact that you can actually use that dogma to suggest that non-believers are somehow evil. That’s what makes the religion so despicable Wouldee.

I don’t believe a genuine loving God would ever be associated with those kinds of accusations about non-believers.

What kind of a God would try to get people to love him using fear tactics. That’s deplorable.

Also, we know full-well that it’s a lie. It simply isn’t true that all non-believers are evil people or that they are possessed by evil demons.

Those kinds of things are that stuff of medieval superstitious. Those kinds of things ran rampant all through all of the mythologies of the time. That’s the way men thought back in those days. It’s nothing more than a reflection of the fears and superstitions of ancient men.

You see, if you want to believe it, that’s OK by me.

But if I don’t want to believe it, then you use the very dogma to suggest that I am somehow evil and possessed and turning against the will of God.

But you missed the whole point. I don’t believe that corrupt dogma has anything to do with God.

I don’t believe that an all-wise loving God would threaten people and try to make them worship him out of fear. That’s utterly absurd. Any all-wise loving God would know that love based of fear is false love.

It’s just a gimmick put in by the writers to convince the readers that if they don’t buy into this crap God is going to hate them and do terrible things to them.

It’s a fear-based religion. If you can’t attract followers with love, then threaten to punish them if they don’t worship this God.

This is the tactics of men, not of God’s (unless we’re talking about the mythological God’s that man created).

As far as I’m concerned everything in your post is just more confirmation that it’s pure manmade demagoguery. I don’t believe for one second that a loving all-wise God would stoop so low as to claim that non-believers of that book are evil or possessed. That’s total hogwash, and any intelligent person should be able to see through it like a plate glass window. It’s entirely manmade demagoguery to try to scare readers into believing, and to try to get people who already believe to view non-believers as enemies of God so that they won’t listen to them or give anything they say any merit.

What better way to drown out any opposition to your writings than to claim that anyone who doesn’t buy it is an enemy of God and will risk God’s anger and wrath?

A God that becomes angry with people who don’t believe?

This is the same God who solves all problems with violence and bloodshed because it isn’t wise enough to figure out how to solve a problem using wisdom?

Right.

A sacrifice to some god in exchange for your sins is what I view as Blood Cult.

To sacrifice a human being in exchange for the sins of mankind is what I view as a Blood Cult.

It make no sense whatsoever to let some animal or some other person die for your sins or mine. That I will not abide. I will die for my own sins and take responsibility for my own actions. That is called responsibility.

This Blood ritual is a pagan ritual that was adopted in myth by the Roman Catholic Church to entice pagans to convert to Christianity. The whole story of Jesus crucification was taken from the many myths of savior gods of the past who also died for the sins of mankind. It is simply not a true story IMHO.

You can of course believe what you want, but I try to avoid Blood Cults, which is how I view Christianity.

JB