Pppppppptttttthhh!!!!!

nothing to apologize for till you show me the post you need it 4

this topic about undocumented aliens always gets as heated as any other political hot potato...
Borders are man-made. The south west part of the United States at one point WAS Mexico and there are many generations of Mexicans living in what now is the US..they were there first..before the anglos stepped in and pushed everyone out..

That being said, the modern situation is this...people go the the US because that is where the jobs are dont want "illegals" in your back yard..stop hiring them. Hold ALL those companies that offer work accountable..as someone posted earlier...throw them in jail for a long time, confiscate their business, etc...its really that simple..

BUT...be prepared America to pay 15 dollars a pound for potatoes, because if its not an immigrant working for less that minimum wage in the agricultural sector then you can bet that an American isnt going to break his/her back for 1.00 an hour picking strawberries..and dont get me started on hospitality, landscaping and construction.

Immigrants are the backbone of those industries. So you dont want em?.. dont give em a reason to come. Plain and simple.
Stop attacking the people who come to the US, and start going after the ones who bring them, exploit them and get off scott free violating every labor law in the US....

doc.....

sorry .... I was wrong .... misread and misunderstood your post and thought it was directed at me ..... sorry once again ..... I sure got up on the wrong side of the bed, didn't I .....

People who resort to personal attacks about a person are not well equiped intellectually to debate an issue. All get tempted to lower themselves to the level of the person unable to provide information without the personal digs but we should all refrain from doing it.

Back on subject. Almost all links provided after I went to bed were not government links but biased site links.

I will tell you yet again, having worked for social services and being exposed to the aliens in our country on a daily basis. The amounts listed on these bash aliens sites are over the top in accuracy. The propaganda about how these people come running over here to use up our benefits is extrememly inaccurate, they do pay bills, they have to work because they get no help from the government.

You can participate in the racial hatemongering if you want to, I can tell you the truth and you can either accept it or disregard it. Either way I do know what the hell I am talking about here.

The stats are skewed due to the hate behind the agenda. The information people are getting is not accurate. People who have this issue up their craw are hatemongers and should not be allowed to perpetrate their hatred without anyone questioning the motives behind it.

I have the balls to question and the knowledge to back me on it.

Hope you have a nice day.

here's a scary thought; since when were government links unbiased??? Seriously though, you have people who are trying to pass bills allowing illegals to vote. This would mean that the politicians have an agenda to get more votes. Which makes government sources biased as well. It's really really hard to find unbiased information now a days.

However i am taking into account your personal experience Dragoness. Personal experience is not to be overlooked. I just wish i knew more about state laws on this issue...

Dragoness.....

You are a true Liberal. I apologize to someone because I am wrong and you attack me. Well I am "well equipped intellectually" and "I have the balls," as you put it, to know when to apologize and to do so. Flowers for me!

Back on topic .... As far as social services are concerned for aliens, you might be able to speak with authority in respect to the state you live in, but each state differs as to what is available for illegals. Therefore, you cannot claim the people on this site are setting forth "propaganda" about taxpayer costs in reference to illegals.

Here this speaks for itself;

Fortunately, we have the highest possible authority on record to answer this question of how the term "jurisdiction" was to be interpreted and applied, the author of the citizenship clause, Sen. Jacob M. Howard (MI) to tell us exactly what it means and its intended scope as he introduced it to the United States Senate in 1866:

Mr. HOWARD: I now move to take up House joint resolution No. 127.

The motion was agreed to; and the Senate, as in Committee of the Whole, resumed the consideration of the joint resolution (H.R. No. 127) proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States.

The first amendment is to section one, declaring that all "persons born in the United States and Subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the States wherein they reside. I do not propose to say anything on that subject except that the question of citizenship has been fully discussed in this body as not to need any further elucidation, in my opinion. This amendment which I have offered is simply declaratory of what I regard as the law of the land already, that every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States. This has long been a great desideratum in the jurisprudence and legislation of this country.

Wasn't addressing you at all. Was addressing the whole personal attack scenerio that played out. Sorry you took it that way

And yes I can tell you that the propaganda distributed is over blown. When you work for the government you have access to reports detailing client geography, etc.... I saw the reports of hospital costs, I saw the reports of welfare costs and clientele, I saw the reports of refugees who enter this country, etc.... I also addressed federal investigators who did our auditing of our jobs and where the money was going. I also attended legislature meetings to speak to the people on behalf of clients or our department. I do know what the hell I am talking about here.

The indigent population cost used incorrectly for the cost of illegals is not accurate. The hospitals did not break out the illegals from the citizens in the cost. They had no way of recording the illegals as separate. I seen the amount of cost for indigent care. I can tell you that the cost "reported" now is no different than the full indigent cost. I can tell you from referrals to indigent care that the majority were citizens who make so little that they qualify for indigent care.

What about the 14th Amendment?

I took it that way since I posted an apology and it appeared you attacked me. This is not my day .... I seem to be stepping on everyone's toes .... I am out of here. Sorry Dragon, I misunderstood.

See everyone is wrong but you dragoness!!

Republicans Offer to Aid States for Medical Care of Immigrants
Published: October 22, 1995
States that spend millions of dollars on emergency medical care for illegal immigrants would get Federal help with that burden under a proposal by House Republicans.

Speaker Newt Gingrich announced the plan on Friday, a day after using it to gain support from border state lawmakers to pass the Republicans' Medicare bill.

Under the plan, hospitals would bill the Federal Government directly for treating illegal immigrants, Mr. Gingrich said. The plan is not part of the Medicare legislation as passed by the House.

Further details have yet to be worked out between the Senate and House, Mr. Gingrich said. He offered no specifics.

"By having that provision, Congress will be reminded annually of the importance of passing much more effective legislation to stop illegal immigrants," Mr. Gingrich, Republican of Georgia, said before a political event in San Diego.

The Speaker described the plan in a letter to his House colleagues on Thursday. "You have my assurances that we will create a special and separate Federal fund which will be capped to provide payments to states with high proportions of illegal aliens," he wrote.

Mr. Gingrich said money to cover the costs of emergency-room care for immigrants would be doled out to states based on their "proportion of illegal aliens compared to the overall national census count."

California Gov. Pete Wilson estimated the plan would pay $6 billion over the next seven years. Mr. Wilson's office estimated that California will spend $382 million in the 1995-96 budget year on emergency medical care for illegal immigrants.

The immigrant-health care measure would be included in the Republicans' broad plan for balancing the Federal Budget by 2002. The budget plan would shave the growth in Medicare spending for the aged and disabled by $270 billion during the next seven years. It also includes an overhaul of the Medicaid program for the poor, which would save another $182 billion.

The House has yet to vote on the Medicaid portion of the Republican budget blueprint. The Senate is scheduled to take up a combined Medicare-Medicaid package next week. President Clinton has said he would veto the Medicare plan as passed by the House.

Mr. Gingrich predicted bipartisan support for the immigration plan.

"The fact is everywhere in America, there is an awareness that illegal immigration is a very, very real challenge that we have to do something about," he said.

The measure follows lawsuits filed by several states demanding Federal money to cover the costs of social services for people who are in the United States illegally.

"What we're seeing is a direct consequence of the failure of the Federal Government to secure our borders," said Representative Brian Bilbray, Republican of California. "Our ability to provide health care to our poor and disabled citizens is being jeopardized by the increasing costs of providing health care to illegals."

Mr. Gingrich referred to a limited pool of money for states.

But Governor Wilson, also a Republican, said in a statement the plan would "require the Federal Government to assume the full costs of emergency medical care to illegal immigrants."

Last year, Governor Wilson filed lawsuits seeking Federal reimbursement for imprisoning and educating illegal immigrants. Florida, New Jersey, Arizona and Texas also took similar legal action.

No apology needed, you misunderstood me and that happens, don't go away, we are going to discuss this here issue until it is a dead one okay?

And........?????

Natural-born citizen

Who is a natural-born citizen? Who, in other words, is a citizen at birth, such that that person can be a President someday?

The 14th Amendment defines citizenship this way: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." But even this does not get specific enough. As usual, the Constitution provides the framework for the law, but it is the law that fills in the gaps.

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in those gaps. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

Anyone born inside the United States
Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.
Anyone falling into these categories is considered natural-born, and is eligible to run for President or Vice President. These provisions allow the children of military families to be considered natural-born, for example.

Separate sections handle territories that the United States has acquired over time, such as Puerto Rico (8 USC 1402), Alaska (8 USC 1404), Hawaii (8 USC 1405), the U.S. Virgin Islands (8 USC 1406), and Guam (8 USC 1407). Each of these sections confer citizenship on persons living in these territories as of a certain date, and usually confer natural-born status on persons born in those territories after that date. For example, for Puerto Rico, all persons born in Puerto Rico between April 11, 1899, and January 12, 1941, are automatically conferred citizenship as of the date the law was signed by the President (June 27, 1952). Additionally, all persons born in Puerto Rico on or after January 13, 1941, are natural-born citizens of the United States. Note that because of when the law was passed, for some, the natural-born status was retroactive.

The law contains one other section of historical note, concerning the Panama Canal Zone and the nation of Panama. In 8 USC 1403, the law states that anyone born in the Canal Zone or in Panama itself, on or after February 26, 1904, to a mother and/or father who is a United States citizen, was "declared" to be a United States citizen. Note that the terms "natural-born" or "citizen at birth" are missing from this section.

In 2008, when Arizona Senator John McCain ran for president on the Republican ticket, some theorized that because McCain was born in the Canal Zone, he was not actually qualified to be president. However, it should be noted that section 1403 was written to apply to a small group of people to whom section 1401 did not apply. McCain is a natural-born citizen under 8 USC 1401(c): "a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person."

U.S. Nationals

A "national" is a person who is considered under the legal protection of a country, while not necessarily a citizen. National status is generally conferred on persons who lived in places acquired by the U.S. before the date of acquisition. A person can be a national-at-birth under a similar set of rules for a natural-born citizen. U.S. nationals must go through the same processes as an immigrant to become a full citizen. U.S. nationals who become citizens are not considered natural-born.

Becoming a citizen

A non-citizen may apply to become a citizen of the United States. At no time will such a person ever be considered natural-born (unless the U.S. Code is changed in some way). The process to become a citizen involves several steps, including applying to become and becoming a permanent resident (previously known as a resident alien), applying to become and becoming naturalized, and finally taking the Oath of Allegiance to the United States. Children of naturalized U.S. citizens generally become citizens automatically, though they will also not be considered natural-born. There is a time constraint before a permanent resident can apply for naturalization, generally either 3 or 5 years. The other requirements are that there be a minimum length of time in a specific state or district, successful completion of a citizenship exam, ability to read, write, and speak English, and good moral character.

And, This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States.

California Gov. Pete Wilson estimated the plan would pay $6 billion over the next seven years. Mr. Wilson's office estimated that California will spend $382 million in the 1995-96 budget year on emergency medical care for illegal immigrants. (That was "96". I wonder what they spent last year!)

North Carolina's, Heath Schuler estimates North Carolina spent $997,000,000 (yes million) on aide and imprisonment of illegal immigrants in 2006, alone!!!

H.R.4088
Title: To provide immigration reform by securing America's borders, clarifying and enforcing existing laws, and enabling a practical employer verification program.
Sponsor: Rep Shuler, Heath [NC-11] (introduced 11/6/2007) Cosponsors (145)





SUMMARY AS OF:
11/6/2007--Introduced.

Secure America Through Verification and Enforcement Act of 2007 or SAVE Act of 2007 - Sets forth border security and enforcement provisions, including provisions respecting: (1) increases in Border Patrol and investigative personnel; (2) recruitment of former military personnel; (3) use of Department of Defense (DOD) equipment; (4) infrastructure improvements; (5) aerial and other surveillance; (5) a national strategy to secure the borders; (6) emergency deployment of Border Patrol agents; and (7) expansion of the Customs-Trade Partnership Against Terrorism along the northern and southern borders.

Amends the Immigration and Nationality Act and specified maritime law sections to revise alien smuggling provisions.

Sets forth provisions respecting border security on certain federal lands under the jurisdiction of the Secretary of Agriculture or the Secretary of the Interior.

Border Law Enforcement Act - Authorizes a border relief grant program for a tribal, state, or local law enforcement agency in a county within 25 miles of the southern border of the United States.

Amends the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 to make the basic employment eligibility confirmation pilot program permanent.

Sets forth conditions for the mandatory use of the E-verify system.

Requires: (1) employer/employee notification of social security number mismatches and multiple uses, and related information sharing with the Department of Homeland Security (DHS); and (2) establishment of electronic birth and death registration systems.

Amends the Internal Revenue Code to: (1) penalize specified employers for failure to correct information returns; and (2) prohibit employers from deducting from gross income wages paid to unauthorized aliens, with an exception for an employer participating in the basic employment eligibility confirmation program.

Increases criminal alien program (CAP) personnel.

Establishes within DHS a rewards program to assist in the elimination of commercial operations to produce or sell fraudulent immigration-related documents and to assist in the investigation, prosecution, or disruption of commercial alien smuggling operations.

Provides for: (1) increased alien detention facilities; (2) additional district court judgeships; and (3) a media campaign to inform the public of changes made by this Act including a multilingual media campaign explaining noncompliance penalties.