Like I have said before, I have very few issues with the right to bear arms but the few that I have are big ones.

First, I have an issue with irresponsible citizens who pass current gun restrictions and let the little johnny play with it and shoot his sister. These individuals have no right to own or have a gun.

Second, I have an issue with the citizens who passes the gun restrictions and is mentally dificient and takes his guns to work or the mall and kills lots of innocent people.

Third, I have an issue with citizens who pass the current gun restrictions and use their weapons as a threat to settle a neighborhood dispute.

I have no problem with guns used properly and with discretion but there are so many poople who are not right...............................................

I agree with everything you just said.

How do you tell the right from the loons? thats my question. I would not be opposed as some would to making someone taking a mental exam initially. but then again people all have their own snapping points, and what makes people snap generally is still not detectable by science(mostly).

buy a gun, it should come with a gun lock, maybe that way dumb little johnny wont shoot his cute little sister in the head.

Dragoness why is it you always use examples that can't be documented as fact in your arguments. Most of what you call fact is plots from some TV show. Repeat after me it's Television, it's Not Real Not Real.

But then the facts don't support any of your arguments so you have to invent them to suit your purpose.

My only real interpretation to this is in regard to the militia. understanding what a militia was at the time that it was written and who wer the militia. they were the everyday people. the cobbler guy, silver smith etc etc, they were not soldiers they were not the national guard or some other organized or controlled group of people. think of it more like a volunteer fire fighter. You hear the alarm if you are in the neigborhood you stop by.

rpg's flamethrowers, bazooka's.... i would say, that if it is available for general public sale then yeah sure you can have it, but i dont think they sale flamethrowers down at JR rifle and handgun shop. and the federal reg's on them now..... shoot son do you really think the government wants you to have what they have? they call it national security, and sorry but the bazooka has to stay in the closet....

I heard somewhere, and I can't document the source, that the malitia is defined as every American Male between the ages of 16 and 45.

No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
-Thomas Jefferson, Proposed Virginia Constitution, 1776, Jefferson Papers 344

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people...To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them." -George Mason, during Virginia's ratification convention, 1788

"The said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms..." Samuel Adams

if you wanna know what they meant from the 2nd amendment, ask the people that wrote it...

wait got some more (hope you don't mind):

"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms..." - Richard Henry Lee, 1788, Member of the First U.S. Senate.

"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed and that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of press." - Thomas Jefferson

have to throw this one in there too...

"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to permit the conquered Eastern peoples to have arms. History teaches that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by doing so." -- Adolf Hitler (1889-1945), April 11, 1942, quoted in Hitlers Tischegesprache Im Fuhrerhauptquartier 1941-1942.


Anyhow, sorry about the cut and paste bits. Sometimes I feel that others can say things better than me. Now this is my stance on this issue of our "right to keep and bear arms".

I disagree with the latter part...for without being armed equally (at least with individual weapons), we cannot hope to resist military oppression at the hands of our own government. Of course, if it comes to that point, governmental legality will be overrun by a superior doctrine: Natural Law. Then, regardless of the "law of the land", we will be armed adequately.

Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms, each man, gainst his own bosom? Congress hath no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American...[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.
---Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

There can never be too much said on this topic.

This looks like a topic for me

1 kills playing w/gun

they should be taught it is not a toy and taught how to use it properly when they can hold it steady

2 if others were permitted to carry guns to work or school then they could defend themselves and others

3 if their is a dispute and a gun is used to try and settle it inforce the laws already on the books and be smart enough not to get shot

assault with deadly weapon is a felony i think thus they lose their right to own guns

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men,

deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

— That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,

laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world

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****WHO IS GOING TO HOLD THE GOVT ACOUNTABL AND ENFORCE THE DECALRATION OF INDEPENDANCE

ENTER THE 2ND AMMENDMENT

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U.S. Constitution: Second Amendment

Second Amendment - Bearing Arms

Amendment Text | Annotations

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

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DEFINITIONS

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Main Entry: in•fringe
Pronunciation: in-'frinj
Function: verb
Inflected Forms: in•fringed; in•fring•ing
Etymology: Medieval Latin infringere, from Latin, to break, crush, from in- in + frangere to break
transitive verb : to encroach upon in a way that violates law or the rights of another <the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed —U.S. Constitution amendment II>; especially : to violate a holder's rights under (a copyright, patent, trademark, or trade name) intransitive verb : ENCROACH —in•fring•er noun
Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law, © 1996 Merriam-Webster, Inc.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

to encroach upon in a way that violates law or the rights of another

en•croach (n-krch)
intr.v. en•croached, en•croach•ing, en•croach•es
1. To take another's possessions or rights gradually or stealthily: encroach on a neighbor's land.
2. To advance beyond proper or former limits: desert encroaching upon grassland.
3. Football To commit encroachment.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

peo•ple (ppl)
n. pl. people
1. Humans considered as a group or in indefinite numbers: People were dancing in the street. I met all sorts of people.
2. A body of persons living in the same country under one national government; a nationality.
3. pl. peo•ples A body of persons sharing a common religion, culture, language, or inherited condition of life.
4. Persons with regard to their residence, class, profession, or group: city people.
5. The mass of ordinary persons; the populace. Used with the: "those who fear and distrust the people, and wish to draw all powers from them into the hands of the higher classes" Thomas Jefferson.
6. The citizens of a political unit, such as a nation or state; the electorate. Used with the.
7. Persons subordinate to or loyal to a ruler, superior, or employer: The queen showed great compassion for her people.
8. Family, relatives, or ancestors.
9. Informal Animals or other beings distinct from humans: Rabbits and squirrels are the furry little people of the woods

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/people

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SO IF THE GOVT INFRINGES (see DEFINITIONS)

THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE (SEE DEFINITIONS)

TO BEAR ARMS

WHO IS GOING TOENFORCE THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE
WHEN THE GOVT BEGINS ABUSING THEIR POWERS

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deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed

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AND BEGIN RESTRICTING THE

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We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men

-------------------------------------

WHO WILL STEP IN AND REMOVE THE

-------------------------------------

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government

----------------------------------

AND INSTITUTE THE NEW GOVT

DO YOU THINK THE GOVT IS GOING TO DO IT

IT IS UP TO THE PEOPLE

AND TO DO SO THE PEOPLE NEED TO BE ARMED

AN UNARMED PEOPLE ARE SLAVE TO THOSE IN POWER

AND THE GOVT ARE THE MASTERS

WHICH IS NOT WHAT IS WRITTEN IN

THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDANCE

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deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

2 if others were permitted to carry guns to work or school then they could defend themselves and others

You bring up an interesting point adj4u. There was a problem in Israel about kids getting adbucted/killed in schools by terrorists/Palestinians. Anyhow, their solution to that was to arm every teacher, plus get volunteers (usually parents/grandparents/relatives) that were armed to hang out there too. From what i heard, since that rule was implimented, there were no more killings in schools.

Conservatives know how to defend themselves, Liberals know how to be perfect victims.

gardenforge...... You forget to mention that Liberals not only know how to be perfect victims, they also know how to play the blame game by never taking responsibility for anything they screw up.

I believe who all have the right to Arm Bears!

The weapons available to the every day American will be ineffective against the gov. today.
Even with proper training and automatic weapons we would not stand long.

The best weapon we have is our children. Encourage them to serve and engrain upon them from birth that the military can never use its weapons against the People. Never!

In this way we can keep the gov use of our military against us, a Zero factor..

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gardenforge.......

I asked my son about your query since I thought the militia dated back to Colonial times and was no longer in existence. He said there was a law enacted in the early 1900's which organized some of the militia into "organized" and "unorganized" militia. He is not sure of the law, thinks it is called "The Militia Act." At any event under this law, the "organized" militia became State National Guard units. My son said not all the states did this; he believes maybe Texas and a few other states put the militia into the army. The "unorganized" militia comprises all American males from ages 17 to 45. My son stated, as with so many things, this is not set in stone and there are exceptions to those in that 17 to 45 year old bracket, usually officials.

Since this thread is about firearms, here is another interesting fact my son apprised me of ------ the Second Amendment was created so that guns could not be taken away from the militia.

well they seem to be working in the middle east somewhat effectively

Not against Americans....