Creativesoul, you wrote:

"Yes indeed, I would have to whole heartedly agree that when I took Jesus' words into personal account by judging myself of myself, it was the beginning of the search for the Spirit within... The 'annointing' of the Spirit happened only after my purist desires to be the best that I could be, THAT is ALL I wanted, and still continually strive for... Curiously enough, there were several factors within the church that deflected this intention of the essence of 'God'... The eyes of the Word, are not blind to truth... the divinity that is contained within the Bible rejects the neighboring words which are not... loudly and clearly rejecting that which is not of essence of Spirit.

That recognition ostracized me from the teachings of hypocrisy... A wonderful separation from even more of the thief teaching which coincided with the continued lifting of the worldy fingerprint that had been internalized within me...

I love what the Spirit has done and continues to do within me... Completely nested within us, silently nurturing those things within one which need attention... shining a light on the darkness... the extension of the desire to be the best that one can be... I am reminded to be grateful for that which has been realized...

The deprogramming of that which steals us from peace and love, and the beginning of the acknowledgement of the Spirit within us...

The light will been shown to each who chooses to turn it on... and witness how one looks to themself through the eyes which are not only of us... we are but mere vessels... "

This I feel is also similar to the path I choose. Yet, it is hard to break away from hypocrasy for it is easy for anyone to be a hypocrit and not realize it mainly because of pride and the justification of things we do not wish to see within ourselves. But let me ask you this, and this is what I hope, is that we do not look into a path of folly or hypocriasy but that we look for and walk down the path that leads toward the light, toward transformation, toward life, toward enlightenment. In this way we undo the path that many are locked into by showing those who are willing to walk down a good path. I do not think our faith should be in question but that we all look to the inner life by which all men could live by.

The Bible say that debate and conflict lead to ungodliness and to the ruining of hearers. All in all seldom does debate get anywhere because the pursuit is not truth, but each one trying to prove they are right. Often even the truth can be undone if the one is a better prepared, or undermines the character or intellengence of the other or if one has more charisma. It is better to seek understanding, to find the truth as much as we can together. The comment you made is also the way that I wish to live and yet we have gotten there in totally different ways, yet none the less we are there... together. Yet it is not that we just "know" the truth but that it shows us the way to be and live.

I beleive that acceptance is a great truth. Acceptence allows us to be at peace and to act harmonious with each other. I am not in conflict with your beliefs and what you beleive does not threaten what I beleive. We all hear a voice of sorts that draws us in one direction or another, the voice that I hear may not be what you hear, yet we each ought to be true to that voice within us. Yet maybe through each other the voice that you hear may complete the voice that I hear. Though we are different we do not have to be in conflict with others. If others are judgmental and condemning, we see the senselessness of such things, yet we ourselves judge and condenmn no one.

And again actually that person does not know better, for often they think they do the things they ought to do, that the knowledge of good and evil allow them to do so. Yet still maybe they too do the best they can by their standard and faith.

I am in 100% agreement with what you have stated here Barry.

This has been my stance all along. And this is why when people start pointing to numbered versus in a book they lose me.

How can a person follow two masters once? Either they are following that inner voice in which case they have no need for a book. Or they are following a book in which case they have no need to an inner voice.

This has been my message all along. Follow your heart, and allow me to follow mine.

Seems simple enough to me. But people continue to try to force numbered versus on me and their interpretation of what those written words me, even to the point of asking me to forfeit my rational experience in favor of their obscene interpretations of the words in a book.

To me, this represents idol worship. I pass no judgments on it from a moral stance, but I see it as the blind leading the blind.

They are asking me to idolize a book instead of following my own inner voice.

No, scratch that.

They aren’t asking me to do this, they are demanding that I do it, and if I refuse, then they say that I have no faith. That my words are meaningless and that I have no clue what I am talking about. That my moral values are worthless and that my life is meaningless and that I can’t possibly know of things such as love and spirituality. AND that I am ultimately rejecting God! Or worse yet that I am possessed by Satan or that I am the “Antichrist”.

Yes, I agree that we should all follow our own path and our own inner voice.

But as long as people insist on throwing numbered verses at me claiming that their interpretation of those verses is the only truth. Then I have no choice but to voice my objections to their ungodly bigotry.

I do this by demonstrating to them how inconsistent and ungodly their verses actually are.

If they wish to make a book into God, then they have no choice but accept that the book is God. And when the book is shown to be false they have no choice but to recognize that they are worshiping a false God.

Like you say, God is a voice within, it’s not a story told by men.

On a personal level I’m fine with God.

I identify with what you are expressing here. I too have the spirit of Jesus living within me. It’s not necessary to be a dogmatic fanatic to understand the spirit of Jesus.

You are fairly new to the forums, and I certainly don’t want to post my life experiences again. But in case you aren’t aware, I was a Christian at one time. I was raised in a very religious family, many of my uncles were preachers. They were Free Methodists and focused on the love of Jesus. They weren’t fanatical about it at all. They were proselytizers, they weren’t political activists, they didn’t preach fire and brimstone, and they were totally accepting of people of differnet faiths and beliefs. They never tried to convert anyone, (well maybe the preachers themselves did) but over all my family consisted of truly meek Christians. They are all dead now by the way. Anxious to get to heaven I guess.

In any case, I certainly had no bitterness toward the Free Methodists that I grew up with. In fact, I was actually drawn toward becoming a preacher myself. Although I was never considering it as a full-time occupation. I simply wanted to spread the word of God. And as Ironic as this may sound, even though Free Methodists focused on the New Testament and Jesus, I never really viewed Jesus as “God”. I always viewed him as the son of God, and in my mind I guess I was always thinking monotheistically. So I always viewed Jesus more as a messenger rather than as God himself.

In any case, as a preacher I new that I would need to be able to answer any and all questions concerning the Bible, so I devoted much effort into studying the Bible so that I could answer these questions. Unfortunately that study ultimately revealed to me that the answers to the really important questions were nonexistent. The Bible simply doesn’t have any real answers. Other than answer to moral questions in the sense of moral parables but those can be found anywhere even in non-religious sources.

That wasn’t what I was looking to answer. I needed to answer the hard question. The questions that non-believers would be asking me if I were a preacher!!! And it was those questions that the Bible failed to answer. And it failed so miserably that I had no choice but to realize myself that it contains no real answers to any serious questions about God. I also realize that if the Bible was written by men it makes perfect sense, but if it was written by a divine creator it makes not sense at all. I finally had to abandon it as a serious religious source of inspiration.

However, I was able to retain Jesus. Perhaps because I never really viewed him as God to being with. I always viewed him as a mortal man and so it was easy for me to keep his spirit alive even after I realized that the book had no divinity overall.

So now I try to get people to understand that God is more than just a book. But I am grossly misunderstood. All they can see is an enemy of their picture of God.

But it’s hard to work with those kinds of people when all they can do is throw verses at you and make absurd proclamations that contradict reality and do it in the name of a God. A God that they believe has endowed them with some kind of indisputable absolute divine truth that no one can deny. And this places them in the ultimate position of judge, jury and execution of my faith and respectability.

So sure, I fight back.

But only against the radical fanatical verbatim Bible Thumpers. Everyone else is experiencing collateral damage.

So just for the record Barry, I have nothing against your faith.

When one walks in thought as though the goal of 'essence' is a clear picture, within the grasp of a true understanding, the constructed sight is that of the worldly fingerprint upon one, and is but a misunderstanding.`That which can be spoken of clearly is not the way. A picture of 'God' which has been produced by emotional words, is one of a mortal reality. Indescribable is the unknown. The attempt at placing a name on it, or attributing a personality to it, constructs a barrier of misunderstanding around the wonder of that which brings clarity of sight. Personification of 'God' equates to a separation of one from the essence of Spirit...

Closing one's eyes to what is near, outside of us, while tuning into what is far away, inside of us, will bring about the exchange of understanding(s)... The mirror of one looking at themself creates a humble gratitude which carves the gateway... invasive self inspection walks one through... one's continued deepest desire to improve one's self, nourishes the Spirit.

Judgemental nature within one is a direct reflection of an unresolved personal issue within the one judging...

One's acceptance of another's personal differences is the acceptance of one with themself...

I harbor no ill will towards anyone, it is not within me to do so... I cannot hold a grudge... I do not ever want to be able to...

Live Learn Laugh Love

Michael...

Abracabra, I would still say that the words and teachings, especially those of Jesus, and the rest of the NT are profitable to really anyone.

I think God had a design for us or what we were created to be, in the words of Christ, we allow the light to shine into our inner self and it exposes those things that are against us and others which is darkness. They are not evil or flaws, they are rather hinderances and unhealthiness. We often get defensive or deny things that are in us that we feel make us a bad person. Such thoughts pervent us from dealing with the things that continually do damage to ourselves and others, and because we hide from them or rather hide these things from ourselves they continue to do their damage.

The way to freedom and to life are blocked by our own pride, our own self-esteem, our own imagination of who we are. These things constantly get in our way of accepting who we really are and then in becoming who we truly are... that which we can be. We must fine a way to humility. This is not the degradation of our character, for many too can be pride about how worthless and sinful they are. I do beleive is that we become insignificant to ourselves, so that I do not take thought in how good I am, but rather focus on what good I can do for others, or that we can do together. Here I am not so concerned that I present myself in a way that would appear right but that if there is something in me that is good to share, I would then share it without any awareness of myself. The only real awareness that I seek is that my motives are always pure, my thoughts are directed for good, and my heart is full of goodness and love. Does this make me a saint, not at all, I am no better than anyone else, but I am better for everyone else.

I may not do all of these things perfectly , yet that does not matter, for I do not seek to recognize myself as perfect or for others to see me as good, but maybe as a friend of others. Because it is not what I am that really is important but how I live and the things that I live by. It is not about me, it is about love that can guard and guide everyone thoughts, words and actions. Please beleive me I do not say any of these things wanting to credit myself. I think I am only living as I ought to live and sometimes I do not do that as well as I wish.

Abracabra, you wrote,
"However, I was able to retain Jesus. Perhaps because I never really viewed him as God to being with. I always viewed him as a mortal man and so it was easy for me to keep his spirit alive even after I realized that the book had no divinity overall.

So now I try to get people to understand that God is more than just a book. But I am grossly misunderstood. All they can see is an enemy of their picture of God.

But it’s hard to work with those kinds of people when all they can do is throw verses at you and make absurd proclamations that contradict reality and do it in the name of a God. A God that they believe has endowed them with some kind of indisputable absolute divine truth that no one can deny. And this places them in the ultimate position of judge, jury and execution of my faith and respectability.

So sure, I fight back.

But only against the radical fanatical verbatim Bible Thumpers. Everyone else is experiencing collateral damage. "

I am not quite sure what position Christ holds. He Himself never acknowledge Himself as God, though He did say before Abraham was I am. He did not possess all of the atrributes given to God, He was not all knowing. In fact one would be hardpressed to find a scripture that says Jesus is God, yet I would not deny He is, it is really just unclear. He is th e Christ the Son of the Living God. That is for sure. He is the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world. He is even the exact representation of the Father, He existed in the very form of God. Yet all of those do not say... He is God. So one must make that decision on their intrepretation. It even says He shall be called, the everlasting Father, yet being called something is still not the same as He is the ever lasting Father.

I am glad that you have not given up Christ. But I still would encourage you if nothing else to read His teachings for they do have something good and of Life within them.

I would say, that many Christians focus on certain positions and topics, many know verse that support their point or the point of their denomination. Not too many study the word to be doers of the word. Yet I would also encourage you not to fight, for in fighting I do not think anyone wins. What you and I look for they do not have. Their words have do life in them, they are not bad but are products of a system, that is set up to reproduce forms of itself. I does good for many but it will almost always have an emptiness to it that most feel but do not know what that feeling is. Most know also to look into it deepre would be uncomfortable and they amy have to lose their way of life. If you where to say let us oeby all that the Lord has said which is only as we ought to do, they would not understand that because that is not really any part of the system.

The system is to go to church, to do religious things, and to live a your own life the way you want. This is an over simplification but it is fairly true. We cannot change that system, that form. We can only bring a message that would call some out of it into something they are looking for like us. If we fight with them, as in a war it is hard to see what we are fighting for. We really only ought to encourage others, accept them, and to be at peace with them. Maybe it is like casting pearl before swine. lol Not to call anyone names but often we try to give what is precious to ourselves to others who have no regard of it. The pig is not a bad animal it just does not recognize the value of a pearl.

I won’t argue with that, and never have. But I’m sure that many people have jumped to incorrect conclusions about me concerning things of this nature.



I agree that taught correctly the teachings of Jesus can be very helpful in this way. Unfortunately religious institutions fail miserably at mentorship in these matters. As I’ve said, I was raised Free Methodist which actually focused on the life and love of Jesus and despite their very best efforts their ability to actually convey the message was miserably non-existent.

Too much focus on the idea of his divinity and that he died for our sins, and that it’s all about sin and salvation. Hardly any time left to actually talk about mentorship or how to apply these things effectively in life. And clearly the churches I’ve attended were not the only ones that fail at this miserably. It shows all across America that effective churches are basically non-existent, or at best extremely rare and out of the public eye. And I have never seen a Television broadcast from any religious church or organization that has done any better. They all seem to have missed the message you speak of here and are lost in the ‘sin and salvation’ thing.

After all, what do they focus on? Christ as a mentor? No. They focus on a man nailed to a cross dying for our sins. It’s a terribly shame that such an idol image has been constructed because it totally overshadows the real messages.



This is ultimately the basis of pantheism too.



I totally embrace and agree with what you say here. I fully admit that I am no longer like this myself. I have become disillusioned. Not with God, but with mankind. I’m 58 years old. I have made an attempt to live precisely as you describe here. Personal gain, or recognition of any kind has never been motivation for me, neither has material wealth. I sincerely believe that had I found money attractive I would have been competing with men like Bill Gates. It wasn’t that I didn’t have the ability to make money. It was simply that it means nothing to me and never has.

Neither have I been attracted by fame, or overwhelming recognition. But I do confess to having a great appreciation for being respected. As I respect others.

Once again, I confess that I am not the person I used to be. I’ve become disillusioned with mankind. No one seems to genuinely appreciate good works, and far too many greedily take advantage of such things. I used to allow people to use me and take advantage of my good nature. I finally realized one day that I wasn’t doing anyone any favors least of all myself. The people who would take advantage of my goodness did not use that for positive things, on the contrary they would often use that for negative things.

There comes a time when a person must really ask themselves, “Am I being a good person by giving of myself in this way, or am I just being a fool for fools?”

Unfortunately when I asked myself that question I had to honestly accept that the latter was indeed the truth.



I fully understand what you are saying. Your words hit home with me more than you will ever know. I too have always been a ‘perfectionist’, not to imply that I have ever lived perfectly, far from it! But I have always strived for perfection. In fact, my friends used to always accuse me of being too ‘competitive’. They would say that every time we do things together I always have to out do everyone else.

But they were totally wrong. I wasn’t competing with them at all. I was competing with myself to do the best that I can do. If I beat their performance at things it was simply because that’s the way things turned out, it wasn’t because I was trying to beat them. I was just trying to do the best that I could do.

I am definitely not living the best that I can live at this point in time. On the contrary I would say that without a doubt I am at an all-time low. I don’t think there was a time in my life when I was any lower than I am right now. I’m speaking spiritually here, I’m not talking about depression or anything like that.

I’m also not talking about having no ‘faith’ in God. I often feel like God is standing right behind me looking over my shoulder. I think of God in the feminine. It’s just the way I’ve started thinking in the latter part of my life. I got tired of the George Burns image.

So God is looking over my shoulder and checking up on me. It’s more like she’s curious as to what I’m up to. She made it clear about a year ago that my decisions are mine and she refuses to interfere.

Although, in truth I know what she wants me to do, and she knows that I know. I’m just rebelling and putting it off. She doesn’t seem to care. It’s my decision and that’s why she gave me free will. She respects me way beyond what I deserve.

I can identify with your spirit so deeply Barry that I could probably sit here and write all night. So I’ll try to cut this short. But there’s something in my recent history that you may find enlightening.

About 2 years ago my mother died. I can’t possibly describe the relationship that I had with my mother, neither can I possibly describe my mother, but I’ll try.

First off, my father died when I was 9 years old. So I was raised entirely by my mother who never remarried or even so much as dated a man after my father died. Which is kind of strange because my mother was pretty and only about 40 when my dad died.

Anyway, my mother was a saint without question. She never had any vices that I was aware of. She didn’t drink or smoke, or even so much as cuss in the mildest way. My mother wouldn’t even say a word like “crap”. I think the worst thing I ever heard her utter in my entire life was, “Oh shoot!”, and she even covered her mouth for having said that. She never had a bad word to say about anyone. She never gossiped about anyone unless it was to give them praise or talk about them in a positive way. She never held a grudge. She became angry with those who did her wrong and she was quick to forgive. Even when watching the news if there was a story about a murder or a rapist or whatever, and peole would say, “I hope that ba*tard gets what he deserves”, my mother would be quick to say, “Oh I feel so sorry for him”.

When people tell me that no one is without sin the first thing I think in my mind is, “You never met my mother”.

I lived with my mother almost my entire life save for a few years here and there. Either with her in her home, or her with me in mine. We were like best friends. And she was always childlike and as innocent and forgiving as you can possibly imagine a person to be. I’m not just saying these thing because she was my mother. I’m telling you about the person I lived with.

In her latter years she became quite feeble and dependent. I could never put her in a home. That was not even an option in my mind. No way could I ever abandon her. I took care of her for the last 6 years of her life to the point where I had to quit work just to be with her 24/7. She became very dependent and almost childlike. It was almost like she had become my daughter in a way.

One day I went out and bought an electronic keyboard, I wanted to learn to play the piano. I brought it home and like a little girl on Christmas morning here eyes lit up and she wanted to play it. I help her over to the table and she sat down and played chopsticks perfectly. I never saw my mother play the piano before in my entire life.

She was tired and wanted to go lay down. She said that she wanted to play with it the next day.

The next morning she had a heart attack in bed. The ambulance came to take her to the hospital. She never came home again.

I didn’t blame God for taking her. On the contrary I was glad to know that she is in such good hands. But none the less, that was the end of my life. I died that day too, and I’ve been living as a zombie ever since.

No bitterness. No anger. No blame. Just emptiness and meaningless.

It’s hard for me to be positive in the way that you speak of anymore. The idea that religion should be all about sin and salvation has absolutely no meaning to me whatsoever. It simply doesn’t apply to my life. My life doesn’t center around sin and never did. On the contrary I have offered myself up to be God’s servant and never received any instructions in any way. At least not until lately. I do have a mission I’m supposed to be on right now but I keep procrastinating. God doesn’t seem to mind. I think she’s just not going to let me die until I complete it and if I keep refusing she’ll make me live forever which she knows that I do not want and won’t tolerate for very long. So I’ll have no choice but to complete her mission if I ever want to die and she knows it. So there’s no rush. She just won’t let me die until I complete it.

I try to bargain with her but she just turns away when I do that and won’t listen.

So I guess I’m just still in morning and can’t break out of the rut. But something’s got to give here eventually. I know I’ll have to buckle down and do what she wants if I’m ever going any peace. It’s not a big task, it’ll probably only take a year or two at the most, then she’ll let me die. She promised.

In the meantime she doesn’t seem to mind that I’m giving people a hard time on the Internet.

I think I’m causing people to think even if they don’t like what they are being forced to think about.

They say there’s a reason for everything. So if I’m doing it, there must be reason right?

I have met a lot of really great people on here who have inspired me greatly. Reverend Rabbit not being the least of them as he was definitely heaven sent when I needed a music teacher.

I could list a whole lot more people too, but I won't.

I am in complete agreement that the biblical account is extremely ambiguous on this but I’m sure that the verbatim fundamentalists will have their indisputable interpretations to offer on that.

I know that he did say that before Abraham was I am. And this fits in well with pantheism or Eastern Mystic faiths such as Buddhism. This is precisely what a pantheist would say, at least a pantheist who believes in natural pantheism as I do.

Fundamentalists argue that the use of “I am” implies that he was referring to the biblical godhead, but I totally disagree. However I do believe that either Jesus was indeed leaning on local understandings to make his points, or the people who wrote about him simply slanted their writings that way because that’s how they were taught to believe.

After all, we have no actual writings from Jesus. Everything we have from Jesus is hearsay. We don’t have a single solitary word that Jesus actually spoke, or wrote.



Again, this I would agree with too, but only because we are all children of God. I don’t personally believe that Jesus was the sole incarnation of a personified godhead.

However, I am willing to believe that Jesus was very close to the spirit. Possibly as close as a human can be. Although, I’m not prepared to believe that other men, and women, weren’t also as close to the spirit.

But Jesus was definitely close to the spirit. I will agree with that.



Well, this is an issue we’ll have to accept to disagree on. I don’t believe that it was Christ’s mission to get himself nailed to a cross. I don’t in sacrificial lambs, and that his mission was to take sin away from the world. This is the part where I drop the book and walk away.

Like Creative Soul, I feel that these writings were either wishful thinking, or downright misrepresentations in the scriptures, by the authors and subsequent translators. I can give a myriad of rational arguments why I believe this to be the case, but I won’t bore you with that here.

I think that this belief actually overshadows the message of Christ far more than it does it justice. Moreover, wouldn’t it be really pathetic if they only reason people would follow his teachings is because he’s offering them a reward of eternal life if they do?

I seriously can’t even see this kind of ‘temptation’ being a part of what Christ would have condone, much less have done on purpose. When Jesus died on the cross and shouted “My God! My God! Why have thou forsaken me?” I don’t believe that Jesus was speaking to God. I believe he was speaking to the crowd. Why didn’t they back him when he stood up against the Romans on their behave.

That’s my interpretation and um stick’in to it.






It really wouldn’t matter if I had. When I read his teachings I just shake my head, and think “yes, I’m in total agreement with what he taught”.

How can I ‘follow’ someone who thinks like me? The best I can do is stand by his side and support him.

But not in support of what I believe to be the distortions about him. (i.e. being the lamb of God)



Oh I don’t really fight. I just push buttons on clowns who are screaming “PUSH MY BUTTONS!”



I’m just playing their game to pass the time away.



Yes I know. And I shouldn’t be pushing their buttons, even though they are begging to have them pushed.

But, in truth, it does cause them to think whether they like it or not.

But at the same time, I confess, you are right, there are better ways to get through to them than pushing their buttons. It’s just that they invite that game so readily.

You’re asking me to quite being disillusioned and start acting like a caring individual again. And I know you’re right. God’s shaking her head in agreement right at this very moment. I think she likes you.



I can’t argue with you. You’re right on the money. I agree. I’m guilty of sloth, and I’ve given up.

I need to come back to life again. I want to die so much that I’m pretending that I’m already dead. But I’m not and I’ll just have to deal with that.

By the way, it’s not that I want to die because I’m depressed or anything like that. I’m just sick and tired of this stupidly and I’m ready to move on to bigger and better things.

But I do have a mission here on earth yet, and it will take me at least a year or two to accomplish it. I really should get my butt in gear and just get it over with so I can finally move on that that better place.

Abra, I am not going to quote your whole post. I want to say some things and I do not want this to come off the wrong way. So hopefully it will come out right.

I believe that the light that shines from each of us and by light I refer to our spiritual human energy that we all are has its times of low light or energy. All living creatures have this light/energy. Your light or energy was drained by your life experience and needs replenished. Replenishment comes from getting back to basics. I mean root basics. Not religion or god per se but even more basic then that. The basics of relearning to enjoy the feeling of our skin when air brushes across it. The feeling of cool slick sheets when you slide between them. The breath we take. The amazing movements our bodies make when our brain tells it to. The smell of the air outside. The feel of a raindrop on us. I think you get my meaning. Religion or god, takes from this at some level for some of us. Others will say that it enhances but for those like me it complicates the basics too much to really get to the basics. I need to just be. Not think of why I be or who I be or am I somthing someone else can like or whatever. Not be because of god or this or that. Just be. Me and my body and it's immediate enviroment. Just be. Breath, feel the air go in and out. Mind only seeing and feeling and experiencing the immediate surroundings.

Through this basic replenishment I was able to come out of the numbness. I slowly expanded my sensation to include more of my surroundings as I got back in touch with the basic core of me.

I know maybe this sounds like meditation but I did it all the time instead of just at meditation.

This really helped me. And I hope at some level it can help you to come out of the numbness. I had some extreme grief situation one right after the other and the numbness just went on and on.

I already explained about the freedom my soul felt when I freed it from the shackles of religion. My morality is mine. I believe in not harming another living thing out side of food.

As for the being a door mat and allowing others to walk over you. You are definitely right you are doing noone a favor. Sure others will get worked up over it but they will learn, if nothing else that their actions effect others. If a good lesson they will learn to be more thoughtful and considerate. Maybe if an excellent lesson they will step outside of themselves and see anothers point of view from where they stand instead of inside their own judgements.

I hope I have helped you. I really remembered my numbness when you told your story and I was moved by it.

Dragoness,

Thank you for your kind words and interest. I do hear what you are saying, and I understand perfectly well what you mean about the basics. I’ve always been very close to nature and the little things. I appreciate the most insignificant mundane things and take nothing for granted. But at the same time, my desire to move forward has been seriously squelched by my mother’s passing.

It’s really hard to explain. I was more than prepared for her passing. She nearly died two years prior to her actual passing and so I really felt that I was granted and ‘extra’ two years with here. I can’t complain about that. Moreover, she was well aware that she was going to die. She told me that this was ‘it’ and said her final goodbye.

Her passing wasn’t a ‘shock’ in that sense. I was expected to a degree. Every morning that I woke up I would half expect to find that she had died in her sleep, so I had quite literally many months of pleasant surprises seeing her awaken in the mornings. I took none of those days for granted.

However, even though her passing wasn’t a ‘shock’, it still represented a huge emptiness in my life. Caring for her had quite literally become my sole purpose in life for at least two years before she died. So when she passed I no longer had a purpose to live.

As I had stated in a previous post, I had bought a keyboard to begin to learn to play the piano. So I dove into doing that playing the thing almost continuously just to pass the time away, trying to put life on fast-forward so I could also die and be with my mother.

Playing the piano wasn’t enough so I bought a violin and learned to play that, then a flute, then a clarinet, and a trumpet, and a banjo,… and,…Well, you get the idea. I was trying to gobble up life and get it over with.

I think I’m all burnt out now. My attempt to get life over with quick didn’t work. There just isn’t any fast-forward knob. I’m coming off of that trip right about now. I kind of feel like one of those tapes on a reel-to-reel recorder that had been on fast-forward and finally ran out of tape. I’m just spinning now in animated suspension. Tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, … the free end of the tape slapping against the recorder waiting for the momentum of the reel to slow down and give it up.

I think that’s where I’m at right now. So I guess something gotta give at this point. I feel ‘change in the air’ something’s going to change this year and I guess it’ll be me.

It would be cool to go back to being the person I once was. I always had my act together pretty good up until this stage of my life. But all things pass. And time marches on, whether we like it or not.

I am looking into trying to get more of an ‘organized’ schedule together. Being retired due to medical problems doesn’t help. Without a job I’m left with nothing but ‘self-discipline’. And being that I’m an expert procrastinator this isn’t good.

I’ve been thinking about getting a dog. I already have a cat, but that idiot is lazier then me! At least a dog would insist on going for a walk once in a while.

But Barry’s right. My deficit of positivism on the Internet is uncalled for. I need to start being more positive if only in my words. I shouldn’t allow myself to push buttons on clowns just to watch them react. That’s seriously wrong of me. I hang my head in shame. Unfortunately these kind of ‘habits’ are hard to break without ‘discipline’ which I’m currently lacking.

Abra.....I have always respected you immensely but I don't think I have any more then at this moment. Thank you for your honesty and sharing a piece of you......

I actually understand alot what you are saying, a puppet going through the motions with no internal care of what the motions accomplish. Waiting to die. Been there. You are stuck in the grief process. Numbness or lack of life is the hardest one to pull out of. What I wrote before is what brought life back into me. I took it to the basic root sensation of our body and interaction with enviroment and concentrated on the sensation of it. It brought me back to life inside slowly. Enjoying the little things first. How my clothes feel against my skin. The water in the shower running down my body, etc...... It appears to me you are looking outside of yourself for the electrical jolt to get your heart pumping again, it is not out there, it is the life in you, the light/energy in you and you have to get in touch with it through the small physical/mental experiences of pleasure we feel. Or at least that is what brought me back to life. I really feel you and I would really love to help you. Time does help in all matters but it can take so long sometimes that the end result cannot be seen. Your only job in this world is to be one living being here. That is it, through your life and energy you expel through living you give to the world. That is all you need to be concentrating on. Or at least that is how I had to do it.

Dragoness, I do think the simply pleasures of life often sustain us. I love to look at the sky especially at sunset. Going to the beach it feels like a timeless experience, or a friend who never changes, and brings a timelessness to the soothing experience. Who doesn't every once in a while look up at the nights sky o look for a moment at the stars, or to enjoy the landscape under the light of a full moon. Such pleasure are timeless, and seem to bring peace and a smile.

Abracabra, it seems at times when we lose something so important to us, we are undone. Our life becomes a shadow. We can feel like a hollow shell and all that was once inside of us is now gone. Too often others do not understand such things, or even often we too wish we could snap out of our lost state. Yet I would say there are things within us that readjust, that try to make sense of what life now has become. These things are again not just according to logic, but also our soul and our heart, these need to find answer, but maybe not answers but to find their course again.

I would also encourage you not to look back at what you once were for we can never be what we were, but instead to look forward to what you are yet to become. Often we can still go beyond what we have known before, I think the spirit is like this, things are always changing, that which we know now is different from what we have known. It shifts and beckons us forward to further understand and insights. I do not think wisdom and truth are such things that we find in a book but are discovery after discovery.

It is only when we think we know that we become blind to what is still yet to be learned.

Yes, this is extremely difficult for me right now, and it’s not just because of the loss of my mother, although that certainly plays a part. But it was her dependence on me that I miss. Or maybe I should say that without her I no longer feel any responsibility to do anything. No more reason to live.

You, see it wasn’t just the loss of my mother, but the loss of work too. I am mentally disabled and unable to work. I even tried to do volunteer work and was rejected. So it’s not that I just no longer have my mother to take care of, I no longer have anything to do. I try to take care of my cat, but he just lays there. There is much to do. He act more like a stuffed animal that a real life cat.

I’ll bet a lot of people are probably saying, “My God! The man’s as lucky as he can be and doesn’t even know it!”. But seriously, I’d rather be working. Work gave me a sense of purpose. Something to do. I was always a company man when I did work. I always had very little social life, working overtime became my lifestyle. I spent the vast majority of my life either working or in classrooms either as a student or a teacher. I was always busy and not I have nothing to do. No responsibilities. No wonder I feel like changing the channel huh?

I tried to get a wife, but that’s not an easy thing to do. Besides I doubt any woman could live with me for more than 5 minutes.

She’d have to be a mentally-ill agoraphobic nymphomania pantheist organic gardener with a Ph.D. in astrophysics and willing to listen to really bad violin and piano playing. Wouldn’t hurt if she was deaf dumb and blind too. Sounds like a blow-up doll might fit the bill huh? I’ll have to get the Sears catalog out.

I really need to get out and socialize again. That’s what I need to do. Sitting here waiting to die is un-Christ-like I suppose. I don’t honestly know. Well, I guess sloth is a sin, idle hands and all that,…

I just need to find a purpose beyond posting on the Internet.

By the way Creative,

sorry for getting off topic. What was the topic again?

Ah, yes, Christianity's Christ,... Is it all just talk or does anyone actually do it?

Well, I’m not a Christian, but I think it's time to start ‘doing it’ again anyway.

If I can just find an ‘it’ to do!

(no wise cracks from Jax on that one please!)

Abra,

No apologies are necessary... the topic at hand is instrumental to your individual happiness... that is far more important than the OP...

Abra, I too cannot work due to doctor instruction, although I still do things for others and we have a symbiotic relationship there. I started writing, contributing an opinion into the papers and such as a form of outlet and inlet if you know what I mean. But I had to start to get over that numb feeling first to be able to help myself. I started with little things like taking a vitamin once a day. Drinking more water. Yea, my dog did help cause she loves to walk and that was getting me out of the house. Television is not really good for us in this situation unless we watch only comedy. I played movies like Pet detective, Liar liar, etc.... over and over to keep me distracted from the numbness for a little while.

I too would love to go back to work and the doc says no. Stress of any kind exacerbates my condition and if it flairs again I may lose my ability to walk or see so I must listen to him but oh how I wish..........

You know you can write me mails anytime, I love to talk to folks, I will not assume you are romantically interested in me if you do, okay?

Mind
Dragoness, I do think the simply pleasures of life often sustain us. I love to look at the sky especially at sunset. Going to the beach it feels like a timeless experience, or a friend who never changes, and brings a timelessness to the soothing experience. Who doesn't every once in a while look up at the nights sky o look for a moment at the stars, or to enjoy the landscape under the light of a full moon. Such pleasure are timeless, and seem to bring peace and a smile.

You are right, mind, I get all of my inner light from the enviroment around me and really feel rejuvinated if I step into our mountains here. Just the smell of the air, the sounds of the creek, the trees rustling, the wild life. I cannot even describe the jolt I receive from this to my core. But, when you are stuck in the stage of grief, where you are numb and nothing feels like "alive" to you. You have to go even more basic than that. The sensation of my fingers as they type on the smooth keys on the keyboard now, it is a sensation all unto itself. In order to feel alive again one must feel. Feel all the things we take for granted. The warmth of the coffee cup, the sensation of it going down our throat and the warming sensation in our stomach. Very very basic.

I’ve actually been doing this, almost to an absurd degree. I think that was part of why I dove into learning to play so many instruments. I moved on from the electronic keyboard, to a real full-sized acoustical piano just so I could ‘feel’ the hammer action on the strings. In fact I actually ended up getting five pianos just so I could feel their differnet “personalities”. I learned to tune them and adjust their actions. They are all old junk uprights, each having its own personality. Five acoustical pianos in a little cottage in the woods with a lonely old man and a cat. This place look like a music store.

Then I got into the violin. Just so I could actually put my fingers on the vibrating strings. Much more intimacy with the violin. She lays her butt on my shoulder and I lay my cheek on her body. Then she undulates with melodious harmonies as my fingers fondle her neck and my bow slithers across her strings gently stimulating beautiful melodic timbres of orgasmic intonation to well up from within the caverns of her womb and penetrate into the depths of my auditory receptors.

But alas, … still no signs of life.

As with the pianos I ended up with five violins, each having its own unique personality. Then a flute, a clarinet, and so on,….

And I’m not even good with music.

I think what I need now is not the physical intimacy of the inanimate world, but rather I need to become reacquainted with sins of the flesh. I need to get out and meet real people and interact once again with real live human beings. That’s what I need to do and I keep procrastinating against doing it.

(abra)

I think what I need now is not the physical intimacy of the inanimate world, but rather I need to become reacquainted with sins of the flesh. I need to get out and meet real people and interact once again with real live human beings. That’s what I need to do and I keep procrastinating against doing it.


Interacting with living things is an excellent idea and I agree cats are not so interactive. But having a living thing around you is still helpful. Even living plants are good for the life energy they emit. The sensation of the flesh is good but if it is sex for the purpose of sex (take my word on this one)it can actually deplete us more than rejuvinate us. Why this is, I do not know. You would think the pure joy of the act would be a great thing for us. You will pull through it. I see there is some light still there in you to spark the rest of the lights

I am still open to you writing me whenever you want to

I wouldn’t even be interested in sex without emotional involvement. I never have been. However, emotional involvement doesn’t need to be a lifetime commitment either. I’m all for fornication with emotional involvement.

Ahhhhh, the beauty of having been ‘saved’ from Christianity.

Often I think we all just need a hug.

I think the understanding of love brings us to something more than sex, it is about connection and intimacy. It is about touching and feeling skin to skin holding one another. It is timeless and without agenda. No foreplay just to love someone and to stay in the moment and having predetimine what you want to do and to do what you need to do to achieve this.

I think many miss out by wanting sex rather than just wanting to love someone, to honor them, and to make them feel loved.