22 July, India launched a moon orbiter Chandra-yaan 2 (moon vehicle) plus lander.
The lander's touch down is due on 6 Sept.

This is a light weight, low cost mission, coming 50 years after Apollo II so no need to panic folks, we are not taking over the world; at least not yet.

For those interested, Indian Space Research, ISRO has some info on their website: https://www.isro.gov.in/chandrayaan2-spacecraft

Sweet..will it get televised?

loads of cameras on the lander; probably to watch the rover as it inches around

the real thing is in touchdown - no TV.
as per records, 33 soft landings on moon; just 50% have succeeded. so this is a wait & see.

3rd August:

Chandra sends few pictures of Earth



Systems Check: Cameras - okay

Low budget mission, $150 million - typically a Hollywood movie's budget

I'm wondering what the point is? To be able to say 'India got to the moon." A status thing?
Why does a poor country spend so much of its money on that? Why not spend it on doing something about the poverty?

If they can run successful science missions cheaper than anyone else, they have a lucrative market for more research landers. That's big money for the economy. And training and experience for manned missions.

Tendrils are being sent out in search of fertile soil and water. They may wither, but if they find sustenance, a new colony may grow. It's a calculated risk, and possible death for the pioneers if they don't find a suitable environment.

The science landers are our roots escaping from the pot, in search of more.

'That makes sense. Thanks :)

It's also a question in a lot of minds here in India and in a way I'm glad you asked because it elicited from Notbeold a beautiful picture. Yes, it's calculated risks.
--xx--

Regarding India being a poor country may not be so true now. It is over populous, the cities are unclean to put it mildly and so on. But since our Independence in 1947 we have progressed much more than any other former colony liberated after WW 2. It has an economy that is sprinting at 7% GDP for close to two decades.

Around 75% of Indians live in villages but allow me to share a story that may change your notion about poor people.

In remote villages, elephants come down and rampage the farms; used to be that some were injured, even killed although we've a law protecting elephants.

Now we have villages where farmers have pooled their land to grow heavy leaf and fruit clusters like jack-fruits and many other varieties for these elephants. These farms are generally uphill terraced farms, away from main and acts as a buffer zone.

Point is, these are marginal farmers living on the poverty line but collectively they belong and own their village and who is to say they don't have a life!
Villagers taking care of elephants!

In fact if you want to see India, travel cross country, walk barefoot - the dirt roads are cleaner; enjoy some ordinary meals; they taste better and healthier than in the 3 star hotels in the cities and if foreigners can manage a few words in Hindi they won't let you go without having some tea!

Unfortunately, foreigners meet people like me in the cities, the self interested 25%.

The mission sounds interesting and incredible jaish... I hope it is successful, that would be great for India :)

Thanks Rivers. Successful touchdown would be certainly great for us Indians. Inspire our students and shake the walls of religious orthodox-city.

I was in class 10 when Neil Armstrong landed. Elevated the whole world, didn't he!

Yes, I believe he inspired many things, following dreams as well.

I see this as a good thing. :)

I don't know whether or not it would inspire people as I don't know whether Indians in general take an interest in it, or if all Indians even are aware of this.

I don't think I suggested poor people not having a life?
I've lived in a 3rd world country for 2 years, I know what it's like. I've seen whole families live on the garbage belt of Jakarta, which is huge. Entire village built ON the garbage, with kids and all playing there. People eating, chitting, washing and so on while the fumes rise up everywhere from the huge heap of trash.
They still have a life, just not a very good quality life in the sense of hygiene and health. The kids seemed happy, playing with plastic and stuff.
But still very poor, no future prospect, no clean water, no doctors, no schooling.
I've also seen people living in a cardboard box on the street. Until it starts to rain, then their house's gone.
Kampungs where they use a stream for water supply or a pump, simple houses build from scrap, some houses okayish, others not so much. Often one room only, parents and kids sleeping in the one room where everything happens. Sure they have a life, but again not much future prospect, poor hygiene and so on.

I think most people who go to India actually DO travel through the country. They don't go there to sit in a hotel in a city.

I still feel that instead of sending rockets into the universe that costs so much money the government would better invest in improving living, health, schooling, housing conditions for all people, especially the poorest.
And clean up that Ganges for a change. It's the nr 6 most polluted river on the planet!!
A $150 mill could have made a good start with at least something. And it would create -more decent- jobs for the poor too which I suspect is much needed.

Jakarta / Indonesia - a Dutch Colony till 1945 I believe.
Curious ...

Tidbits:

The lander is carrying a 'reflecto-meter' for NASA, useful to gauge distances of on coming spaceships to the moon.

The rover is carrying instruments to detect moisture content of soil samples. in an earlier expedition, in collaboration with NASA, ice was already detected within the craters in South Pole.


India has already sent an orbiter around Mars. You may like to view the Martian landscape here:
https://mingle2.com/topic/441834

Indonesia was under Dutch rule, yes, like India was under British rule until 1947-48. Don't get what's curious about it.

Actually, your notes on Indonesia is comprehensive and very sad. Given the colonial past and the fact you went all the way over to work and witnessed the conditions makes it all the more touching. And you stayed back for two agonizing years; I respect that!

This also makes it easier to understand the feelings that went behind these words.



Well said. Thanks Crystal!

Doesn't make it easier to understand for I still do not.
If a British person comes to India to live there as an expat to work, what's agonizing about that?
I've had 2 wonderful years in Indonesia, nothing agonizing about it. But when you go to a 3rd world country you do get to see poverty everywhere too from bad to worse to basically inhuman.
I suppose -and hope- that at some points countries like that will become better, the same with India, African countries etc. but a huge shift in perspective is needed and that seems difficult for people in such countries. For instance valuing human life so the ones in power and with money start caring about the poor people. Many 3rd world countries are a far cry from that.

As for India itself, it should be possible to rise to a higher vibration and a better country as there used to be a people/race/kingdom in that area long time ago (cannot remember what it was called) but those were very advanced people. High standing culture. That wisdom must still be there.

In any case, wonderful they're doing a lot of space travel stuff and hopefully it brings money into the country. Now for that money to flow to the poor tiers of people...

Dear Crystal,

Frankly there is truth in what you say and so much so that I feel in the interest of fellow members who are similarly inclined; I submit the following clarifications.

Normally, India is compared with China; largest democracy with largest communist state (in terms of population).

First time seeing a comparison with Indonesia and African countries; and I must admit we've pockets in our cities where the slum conditions appear intolerable; shanties, not of cardboard boxes but close enough, brick walls with thin sheets for roofing. Surprisingly, the people who live there have TVs, cell phones, tap water or bore wells and even ACs running indoors. Then there is the garbage pile ups in these localities but nowadays our city corporations seem to have woken up.

My point was, most Indians, 75% to 80% of our population live in small towns and villages where, although poor, life is not so wretched.



From what you've written, there's no longer any sense in highlighting that India's economy will surpass Britain's because w.r.t the scale of population we have, it has to be compared with China's, EU, or USA; since we constitute one fifth of the world.
Only when such comparisons are within reasonable margins can our poor have a decent enough standard of living. Moving one fifth of world population to European level may take us the next 100 years.

How can one be sure of the 100 years? Because, unlike countries like Indonesia and African nations, right after Independence, India made massive investment in education and technology that they did not. This includes home grown nuclear tech. At one time, the Nixon government applied sanctions on India for our trials in nuclear explosions that lasted several years. We had to. After all China, even after walking into Tibet, remained an ever present military threat.

Space is more recent, and interestingly we have one Nobel Laureate in Astrophysics. Hawking expanded the theory of black holes after S. Chandrasekhar (Indian) introduced it to the world somewhere in 1950s. The English professor, Eddington mocked his theory when it was first presented. Chandra moved to the USA.

While India has provided the largest contingents for UN peace keeping missions, we have no global territorial ambitions. Historically India had the world's largest GDP before Europe began trading with India from 15th to 17th Century. There after, colonization, and the economy went downhill. Needless to say, Britain's and France's had a meteoric rise. Among the colonies, India supplied the largest manpower to fight both world wars. It was a volunteer army

In continuity with Ancient India (as you refer to), we have an empirical philosophy called Vedanta ensconced within Hinduism. Vedanta is not for the man on the street. His needs are for a role model and so we have a god (or avatar) for every occasion.
The point here, is scientific thinking is in our blood and when in science, there is little room for ego. We are a member nation for ITER a multi billion project on nuclear fission energy in France. We have collaborations with NASA, Russian Space and to some extent with France.

We have good relations with Israel and Iran; with USA and Russia; no intentions of competing with European economies or with China. For us these are great nations in their own rights. We have our troubles with one neighbor, Pakistan but that's mainly because it's ruled by a military elite propped up by USA since the cold war. If ever there was a country more patient with a troubling neighbor for over 70 years; let me know.

We have enough competition, competing with ourselves; and so our austere space missions.
--xxx---

The original intent of this thread was easy to understand physics: why it takes Chandrayaan 48 days to reach the moon using gravity assist; how it maneuvers from circular orbit to elliptical. And the complications of soft touch down. The physics we learnt in school but escaped our attention.

I suppose, we no longer have zest for it.

I have to read up on India in between things, out of interest :)
Now this may interest you, coming from a corner that is maybe unfamiliar and/or not your thing: the spiritual.
This is from a book I got with info on each country in the world and how it will develop in this time of ascension. This is on India (part of the message):
Many souls from Sirius have incarnated in India over the last 20 years. (Sirius has to do with technology, which you mention). They bring with them much technological knowledge, and minds that are open to new and higher ways of creating things. As the frequency of this country slowly rises, they will be accessing much of the higher scientific information to take the world forward. Many of these scientists will become travelling teachers, helping to spread new understandings at a time when travel will be more difficult. (I don't know what that bit on difficult travel is about but alas).

There are also 3 important energy portals in India which help a lot to raise everything to a higher level, one in Agra on which the Taj Mahal is built, another at the source of the Ganges and the last at Varanasi.

But isn't it wonderful that even from this spiritual source Diana Cooper -a very highly evolved soul- comes the same info that you were talking about :) I like it when things come together, haha.

I also have nothing against India, you may think so, but I do not. No it's not my favorite country, but I have nothing against it. I actually sometimes watch very interesting clips from Indians on YouTube, usually to do with energy work or meridian healing etc.

The old civilization I mentioned was before the one you mentioned, the Indus Valley culture that lived at the same time of Ancient Egypt. I think that it was that one.
But it's been a while since I read that and I read and learn so much that I sometimes forget things :)

And I would not ever compare India to China btw. I do not see the similarity. Maybe if you use a different standard from mine to compare.
But I'm coming more from a cultural point of view and general development. Indians & Chinese are an entirely different people with vastly different background, ancestry, religion, culture. To me there's no similarity whatsoever except for both being located in Asia.
I also wouldn't compare India to African countries or Indonesia in the way you think, again because I come from a different view point to compare. Just like no Western country is the same, neither are other countries that could be considered poor countries. Every race and people have their own background, history, culture and so on.

All in all some countries probably have a huge advantage, the ones that used to be English colonies as they speak very good English. Many/most Indians as well. Makes it a helluva lot easier to take part and to trade with the Western world and to have them invest in your country. I know some companies have their helpdesk in India. This would be impossible if they couldn't speak proper English.

Anywho, I loved that bit in the book on India and the technology :)

I know we deviated from the space thing, but I'm actually enjoying the exchange, nice learning things, and also looking stuff up on India :)
Wasn't my idea though to derail your topic.

I have seen your thread - Crystal's paintings and also know you as a Chakra practitioner among many other things. Now I know you also as a world traveler.

The thread's no longer important. Seems it served a larger purpose.




Something deeper is lost when a man changes his name from Prabhakar to Peter; adjust's to English with little understanding of the culture. One can see this 'loss' in the India forums.

anyway ...