That ties into what Crystal was saying about being self empowered. When you aren't so attached to your ego, the traditional ways become more of a choice rather than a conditioned response.

You're welcome. And yes, woman is almost always the initiator, but not by chasing, by giving subtle but clear hints. Like in the old days a woman would 'accidentally' drop her lace hankie so the man could pick it up if he wanted to and bring it back to her. EXACT same thing.
Everyone knew she didn't accidentally drop it, but it gave the man rejection protection.
And it's playful. It's fun, it's flirty, it's exciting. And it holds a slight risk. The risk of getting hurt if it doesn't work out. You didn't know for sure after all if the man was actually going to pick it up and come by your house with it.
There is no 100% certainty & safety in matters of love, but that is also what makes it so much fun and exciting. If you would get guarantees it'd be boring as bleep.

Now imagine a woman throwing the hankie at a man.
I think that's what chasing would be like. The 'losing the hankie' was done subtly, possibly accompanied with a cheeky smile or eye-contact.

I guess, I would like it. As long as she is not against my cats

Now that's what I'm thinking... more subtle than the cowgirl with the lasso, hahaha.

Throwing the hankie would be similar to using a lasso, too direct.

Men are saying we're too subtle? Maybe as they get older, they grow tired of looking for subtleties and want a more direct approach?

That would be important!

Excellent thread and an excellent read. Thank you everyone for your input!

My own two cents: It is entirely circumstantial. There is a time and a place for everything. Dually, there are times when being chased just isn't kosher.

I am actually one of those rare cases who's been raped at the hands of a woman. Without going too deeply into it but for point sake, I was managing a tanning salon and I had a client that was showing a solid interest. Given the nature of my job it is a conflict of interest to date or solicit patrons thus I was professional as I always am.

Thing is, she was indeed "chasing me" and was for lack of better words, "throwing herself at me"... if this was the OP's original inquiry?

Of course it was flattering but she started showing up after hours to intercept me as I was leaving at the end of each work day. It was both intriguing AND a drain on my energy at the same time. Needless to say on one evening I obliged and followed her to her house.

*I amn't making this rape story out of an inquiry but the point is; That, she was stronger than I was(because, let's face it, she was on a women's hockey team), and I was indeed being pursued and she indeed got what she wanted whether I was enjoying it or not.

The back side is, I have also been pursued under the right circumstances and it can make for an amazing rendezvous and a relationship of spice and romance! It can be ecstasy when pursued by the right person under the right circumstances. People can and do meet some of the richest experiences in their lives under conditions of spontaneity.

Alright then. I put my name into the hat

Thank you for sharing StoneFree. I believe we all know the cautions one needs to take when pursuing another or allowing ourselves to be pursued

I agree with what you're saying about there being a time and place for things. Although I would go more with the "feeling" of when the time is right rather than wondering if it's the right place for it. Sometimes waiting for one or the other to be kosher can cause you to miss the opportunity altogether.

Women can be too subtle, but you'd need context to say whether it requires looking at or not.
Thing is, us women can read between the lines. We pick up on vibes as we are such intuitive beings (=feminine quality, when empowered this is our strength!)
So in communication with other women we are what men call subtle. We don't have to be direct, blunt or anything, the other knows exactly what we mean.
ALSO when it's not nice btw. Jealousy for instance. A woman can sense that a mile away, even in her best friend.
So the way we communicate basically hinges on the concept of our intuition, that the other will know what you mean.

In contact with a man this can be a problem because he will not get it. Men are not subtle, they're direct. Not by choice, but because of how they're wired.
That's why your partner won't get it when you give hint after hint. Another woman would've gotten it right away, most men won't.
Can lead to huge rows:
Woman: "I've told you a thousand times to XYZ!!! You never listen to me!!"
Man: WTF are you talking about? You NEVER told me?!

BOTH are right... in their own way, hihi.
And BOTH will have to learn this and accommodate the other as it's a difference in man & woman, how we're wired differently.
So we will have to remember and be more direct, man will have to pay closer attention.
Sounds tiring, but I think it goes by itself when a couple truly loves each other as then they care enough to want to understand one another. They'll also spend more quality time together and so on.
I think that unfortunately in most cases people get in a rut and kind of lose track of what the other is like, begin judging them as opposed to wanting to understand them and so on.

So women too subtle, possibly, depends on context. And it's not too subtle really, only in a man's perception, not in woman's perception as women get it perfectly.
UNDERSTANDING this concept could make a HUGE difference to people's love lives.
Now we're still at the point that everyone is judging the other as opposed to thinking about "Why would that be?"
And oddly enough it all goes right back to self-esteem problems: Men not daring to chase, women not daring to open up and be vulnerable (AND not being used to this anymore as our society is masculine).

It IS a huge problem, but only as long as people don't understand these things. You cannot change it, thousands of years of primal instinct aren't gonna go anywhere. It's part of our make-up. If it'd change, we wouldn't be human beings anymore but a different species.
Meaning we'll have to learn to deal with it in a healthy way, the way it was meant to be, like we did a long long time ago, before men became the dominant gender.
All it takes to solve -and for people to have their chances at a happy love life sky-rocket-, is the willingness to work on personal issues AND understanding how the other gender is wired WITH RESPECT, not from judgement and a male-superiority complex, which unfortunately is still very much alive.

I'll leave it at that, don't think anyone is reading this anymore, except for you, haha.


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River, you're absolutely right. Thank you for your input! As you've stated there is also a way to completely "miss" said opportunities!

Estes Park? Brrrrrrrrrr!

You're welcome! I'm here until the end of May... I found a great way to travel through seasonal work that includes housing

And yes... Brrrrrr, lol. For the most part it's a dryer cold so isn't as bothersome as some places, but it's a very windy area so that makes it feel a lot colder.

Haha, there might be one or two others that read the whole thing, most likely women Hahaha! Men seem to do better with short paragraphs and very few!

In regards to what you're saying about our primal instincts I believe while evolving/growing we've definitely missed the point. Rather than eliminate the primitive ways and move to what we think is more liberated, embrace our primal instincts but let them grow into a more healthy, more empowered way of being.

I agree the ego driven male superiority stance is still very much alive. It's a shame. Even with the women's liberation era, the focus has been on acting more like men, rather than becoming truly empowered women, embracing the femininity. In the respect of pursuing a love interest, I can see why men are suddenly saying okay ladies, it's your turn. However, we cannot change our innate beings, so that won't work well for a lot of people, least not for a lasting relationship.

There 'are' other people reading this and I just happen to be one of them.

Cut and dried; Having never been gay "I" am a more feminine male. If there is anyone who does understand "how the other gender is wired WITH RESPECT and not from the judgment of a male superiority complex", it is my self.

I fully understand this. I also understand that we live in a time with an active resurgence and "witch hunt" that is out for the male species. Feminism and its constituents are accidentally mixing misandry with feminism. Because of the very argument that you just identified in regard to RESPECT of how women are wired speaks volumes of misandrist feminism.

One has to be very careful on both sides of the fence. Because, when people start identifying with a "lack of"respect" of one's gender and hard-wiring they are inadvertently "victimizing" themselves.

I am too subtle; and was raped at the hands of a woman.

You need to see that it happens on both sides of the fence and that it isn't one-sided.

Women should already know for themselves that they are superior to begin with. Empowerment comes from the roots upward. It does not come from 12 women getting together 25 years after the fact to address a sexual offender. Because THAT is what is creating the Feminist movement that we have today and it is becoming a misandrist movement.

For the record; "This man" gets it.

Most men much like women have a fragile ego and this fear of rejection. I would rather be rejected from the start then 20 some years later. If a man or woman is empowered, he or she will not let that hold them back.
Only a few men are empowered enough to approach a woman without having gotten a sign from her that she's into him. Same is true for the few woman who are empowered enough to approach a man without some sign from him that he is into her. To me this needs to change.

The way I see it, if a man has a place to live, then the woman needs to go out there and check it out. Kick the tires so to speak. Then if the woman is still into him, kick his tires.

If a woman has a place to live, then the man needs to go out there and check it out. Kick the tires so to speak. Then if the man is still interested in the woman, kick her tires.

The idea we can get to know each other on the internet is bull-shid to me. It is just an internet construct. Words have a funny way of meaning different things to different people.

What really pisses me off is when after spending hours and hours communicating with what I think is a woman is really a man, getting your information and attempting to get some money from you.

You know, it's so funny that you say that! I live at 50 feet above sea-level and am close to the ocean. I have "moist" cold whereas where you and my Mother are is a "dry" cold and here's the difference:

Put a bottle of champagne in a bucket of ice
Put a bottle of champagne in a bottle of ice water...

See which one chills faster!

Some men are okay with reading more when it interests them, usually the more empowered ones, haha. Really, not joking!
My ex was quite empowered in his masculinity, he had a huge interest in these things, one of the reasons we matched so well.

Yes, embrace our instincts. Mostly these serve us, and they're the reason that man & woman can have chemistry, fall in love and so on.

The liberation era is still happening, balance is needed. We're at the point that many don't have a clue how to go about it anymore as the old obsolete framework fell apart.
In the bar we can now have woman go up to a man "What's a handsome guy like you doing in a place like this?"
Man thinking "OMG, WTF do I do???"

In spite of what some claim in here I doubt any of them would be comfortable with that, grin.
Only a very self-confident, empowered male could deal with something like that.
Then it could actually be quite sexy to do so, you wouldn't come across as dominant cos he'd be strong enough to not be overwhelmed.
Thing of Scarlet O'Hara using that on Rhett... He wouldn't be in the least bit disturbed, hihi.

Hmm... I'm getting romantically sexy thoughts now. Best I go hide in the kitchen to make food, haha.

Chris, I feel it. You're in the belly of the beast. I'm not here to disrupt anything nor am I in anyway bad-mouthing this site but 97% of the profiles that can be found via the search engine are fake profiles with per diem quotas to make "x" amount of profiles and to acquire "x" amount of phone numbers and "x" amount of email addresses everyday and this site is a haven for them.

The real people are here in the community link and forum. The rest are getting paid.

Waiting for your input Crystal...

Haha... Maybe I'll go for a hike, I'm getting the same kind of thoughts

Thanks Crystal, I enjoy having these discussions with you