This is directed mostly to men, but ladies please feel free to share your thoughts.

We are taught to stay out of the friend zone. The term has negative connotations for men. The advice of womanizers, seducers, and pick up artists is to be cool, tough, and detached. While I agree that being too needy is not good I've always connected the best from the friend zone. There is a difference between wanting women and loving women.

I try to support, encourage, and make them happy. Isn't that what friends do? In the words of famous turn of the century singer, How can we be lovers if we can't be friends?"

My personal experience is that once you're placed in the friend zone, you can never go outside of it. The woman values your friendship, but feels that going anywhere beyond that would absolutely destroy that friendship.

To be honest, I have trouble describing the friend zone. The concept has never made sense to me. It's riddled with contradictions. "Let's be friends first...", but then you get stuck in the friend zone, for instance.

I think the friend zone is really just another way of saying, "I don't know what I want."

I’ve done the opposite, lover first, then just friends

For a partner I want someone that is my best friend. It takes time to know if a guy can be your best friend and if you're compatible for something long term. Although not every guy you develop a friendship with will turn into anything but friends.

So where do you start to find that out? I'd think a friendship.

I think the problem lies in fear of rejection. I'm not becoming friends with a woman because I want her. I'm becoming friends with her because there is something I find attractive and interesting. I'm interested in exploring that. There is a huge gap between womanizers and men who genuinely love women. I'm no expert, but the fact that I believe WOMEN to be beautiful, sensual, passionate and fun to be with and don't care whether or not I screw them is attractive.

To put it bluntly, I've done best from the "friend zone." I suppose my definition of the friend zone is different than most. There is sexual tension growing, but truly not caring whether it is acted on adds a bit of mystery.

Whilst i have been known to perform miracles.
I can only bone so many women, at any given time.

Ironically I do value the friendship of women, and in
many cases, desire nothing more than just friendship.

Men that fear the friend zone are really fearing rejection. They might be well advised to let go of the fear and simply enjoy the company of a woman.

That actually runs entirely opposite to my own experience.

The fear has always come from the women when it comes to using the friend zone.

It's like a fear of commitment. Similar, not quite exactly the same.

I've never found that to be true, because I've never pursued the woman as an object of want. She would likely fear my motives if that were the case. I've never ever known a woman who fears friendship with a man who wants to understand and appreciate her.

They fear losing the friendship.

As in, becoming closer, more intimate emotionally. It doesn't have to involve sex. It's the loss of detachment, the increase in vulnerability.

With the friend zone, there is always a level of detachment. There is no need to fear vulnerability.

But once you choose to let that guard down....then the friend zone no longer exists. It's been taken to a higher emotional level. And that also means the stakes are higher. Emotion can be very destructive. So if things don't work out, chances are the woman can never return the man to the friend zone. He will be gone to deal with his own emotional scars....which often will make the woman feel even worse. Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda.

"If only I hadn't opened up...If only I hadn't felt anything....He wouldn't have gotten hurt. We'd still be friends."

In other words, many women feel it on a deeper level than the man, no matter how hurt the man is.

What you say makes sense. It hasn't been my experience, but I've been told I'm somewhat of an anomaly...

My point here really was to try and take some of the stigma out of the "friend zone" label. It really doesn't have to be what some of our more clueless brethren believe it to be.

I am not afraid of anything. And I am not getting stuck in any false hopes anymore. Better off so.

At my age they're all in the "friend zone".

I know exactly what I'm looking for. When I befriend someone there is already a connection of some type. It's probably something basic like personality,
humor, easy to talk to. The point of a friendship is to grow, enjoy, andget closer and know more about them. Isn't there vulnerability whenever you open up to someone?

Can you not stay friends with someone if it doesn't work out romantically if you were true friends first?

Friends is the best way to start a Relationship . Imo

But if a man puts a woman in the friends Zone he probably isn't really that
Attracted to Her.

Men are very visual and know right off if they want her as a mate, partner, spouse.

Otherwise He is going to Keep searching, while she is in delusion.

Now if she wants to Just be friends , that will Work for Both.

Men don't like friends Zone usually because they like Sexual partners .

Friend zone is a great place. I cant skip over it, personally. IT takes the friendship FIRST, for me, to seriously consider anything MORE SERIOUS.

but I do realize the term has been coined as a negative space that one gets 'stuck' in.

And I think there are times when thats true, in which case, it sucks to be STUCK in the friend zone most likely, but just to BE in the friend zone, not so much.

As long as the person involved is CLEAR about that that is *all* they will ever be......and the person is OK with that, not vainly hoping he/ she will change their mind...it's fine..
It's when someone thinks they are special enough that they can change the person's mind...or worse..that the person doesn't know their own mind and it they just keep on pushing they will eventually let them be more than just a friend...

SOME of us men truly do not care whether or not we have sex with you. SOME of us think you are fun to be with. We like who you are not what you represent. I don't think there is a hard line between friends and lovers. The difference is almost purely sexual attraction. Whatever the case may be, I'm still fascinated.

I agree, looking back, the relationship that lasted the longest was with someone who I was friends with first. We ended up getting married.

I think you made a good point msharmony, being "stuck" in the friend zone is what sucks, not being in the friend zone.

The "stuck" part happens when one of the two start wanting more than friendship and the other one doesn't want to move past being "just friends". That's where my greatest fear would come in... That I would start falling in love with him and he never reaches that point.

But I believe that comes from projecting into the relationship rather than letting it transpire naturally and developing the way it's meant to. When I start imagining what it would be like in the future instead of staying in the moment, that's when the problems begin and the fear intensifies. Staying in the moment and enjoying his company puts me more in the place of appreciating his company and enjoying the time we're having together.

I agree. There is another factor in getting stuck in the friend zone. When signals are given you best not let the opportunity slip away, because there will very likely never be another moment. Things tend to get awkward.